Genmotty Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 +++ Transmission Received +++ +++ Decoding +++ . . . Imperial Command, The 1171st Penal Regiment has returned from campaign out of the eastern fringe. I am requesting an update on Imperial doctrine and procedures, while we re-equip and evaluate the possibilities for reinforcement. I eagerly anticipate your reply. Commander out. +++ Transmission Ends +++ --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I've been out of the hobby for a fair few years now, what with building a career and other major life changes, but have decided to come back to 40k and rebuild and reshape my Imperial Guard force. It's been 2 full editions since I last was in the hobby, and well let's just put it this way 'the imperiums changed while I've been in the warp storm'. Some models that I used to love like the old Storm Troopers and Kaskrin are no longer stocked. There are now Vostroyan models, more Ogryns and Superheavies and Flyers are now in the codex proper and not just Forge World only. So the big question on my mind, is how has the game changed, and in what ways is it different? Coming back from what I believe was 4th Ed, the remains of my Guard (as a fair few have been sold/broken over the year) are as follows; Command Squad -Medic -Standard -Officer -Vox -Guardsman Sentinel Walker Squadron -Walker A -Walker B Stormtrooper Squad -9 Stormtroopers -1 Sgt Heavy Weapons -3 Autocannon Team -1 Lazcannon Team -1/2 Morter Team Guardsmen -Assorted Models (about 18 in total) -Special Weapons as flamers and 1 melta unit I have also decided as part of rebuilding my army to purchase from forge world; 1 Malcador 'Defender' 3 Heavy Morters Because 'why not'. Astra Millitarium? I guess my first question to the state of 40k these days is, 'what's with the name change?' does this mean now that other imperial units can become part of a guard force? Are naval assets now meant to be commanded by imperial ground commanders? Is this still the guard that I used to love? New Models? I guess the first thing I noticed coming back to the hobby was that now there is shiny new kit in the form of the Taurox and new Stormtrooper models - not that I actually like either of the above all that much to be brutally honest. I like my vehicles as walkers or with heavy treads! On the otherhand, I can see now that there are non FW Baneblanes, missile launchers and some very nice new standard infantry, as well as content like techpriests, psykers and similar. Because I love artillery, but I have to admit was never too enamoured with the Basalisk and Earthshaker, one would dearly love to know how those beautiful missile launchers fair in table top play. Similarly if indeed, other content like the Wyvern and Hydra actually are worth it in play - since the latter I always considered more of a 'fluff model', and the former being new to me a bit of an unknown. Likewise, does anyone have any experience with the Baneblades and could offer advice on them? Orders & The effect on play Reading through the newer codex, one has to note that Doctrines have been replaced by Orders, and one would humbly ask how much this changes gameplay, since well. It appears these orders can be quite potent. Warlords Like orders, while the warlord aspect appears similar to understand, how does this influence play and strategy? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Advice for the future As is clear to see, my current force does not quite an army make, nor will my new acquisitions aid in this manner. Which is why, given this outlay, where would the community advise I branch out in the future to make a competitive (although not generally a tournament competitive – since I will likely play with a local gaming group (for now)) army force? Any advice for one of the old guard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Welcome back to the front lines soldier, and welcome to the B&C! :D There's countless great topics to be found that will be very good reads for you but I've hooked out a few that deal directly with some of the changes. Though they chiefly deal with more recent changes they'll still be worthwhile reading, especially as the IG barracks here on the B&C didn't exist back when you stopped! Guard in 7th - a topic by Immer that deals with a lot of the modern guise of Guard Hammer Unbound - handles the changes that 7th Edition has brought about 5th - 6th Changes - direct talk of changes to rules and units from the old codex to our current one Orders - direct talk of changes to orders Now the important bit is done - second most important bit is to note that outside of the initial blurb the codex refers only to the Imperial Guard. Astra Militarum is a copyright thing that GW has done to help protect their IP etc after some court fallout (don't ask, it's all rather silly) so don't worry, the Guard is here to stay ;) As you can expect a lot has changed over the years but I'll try and summarise it briefly for you. Static Guard is long dead, mobility is now viable and effective - notably the ability to move and fire a single shot at full range for Rapid Fire weapons. Objectives are very important to winning, so Troop units are essential components of success as they capture them. Our codex is also very flexible with lots of decent builds and things you can do, including tank commander HQs - thanks to Orders infantry companies are also effective as Orders can do nasty things (like ignore cover). In short there's never been a better time to play Guard :D Think of the Wyvern as the replacement to the Griffon - it's cheap as chips and will drown infantry in wounds. The Hydra is quite good, but probably only worth it if you're up against enough flyers or skimmers. The Baneblade is as you'd expect - a super heavy Russ! Can form the focus of your army but for the points you'd hope so :P Depends what you need - super heavies (SH) need an entire topic to themselves really. Warlord stuff is nice as a bonus, not a huge part of a list but can add some tricks and flavour. For adding to your force it looks like you need some armour! There are plenty of cool variants to pick from for both Russ and Hellhound tanks. I envy you, flicking through the codex and seeing all the cool new stuff must be very exciting for the first time :lol: Now for the most important question: do you have some pictures of your troops? What sort of colour scheme and background do they have? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 well the game has certainly changed a lot. I would recommend getting some games in at a local store to get a hang of the rules of 7th edition. imperial guard wise, imperial navy and imperial army are still seperated,although our force org chart now allows navy assets to be included in your list! given by the models you've got i would recommend the following purchases: -the codex -2 or 3 armoured fist units, these can used as either veterans or infantry squads belonging to a platoon in chimeras, which both give you mobile troops, a much needed asset in 7th edition -2 wyverns, especially if you love artillery! these are just so good, it's hard to take any other artillery! and they are only 15 pts more expensive than heavy mortars while offering a harder damage output and mobility. heavy mortars are harder to use, not to mention non-codex but forgeworld units,so you will need the IA volume 1;second edition. here's a quick list that is a good start of any force: -company command squad+upgrades 90 pts -veteran sqd: 3x plasma, chimera 170 pts -veteran sqd: 3 x meltagun, chimera 155 pts - wyvern squadron: 2 x wyvern 130 pts 545 pts, but add an upgrade somewhere and you'll get 550 pts which give you a solid form of AT, anti 2+armour and anti infantry while still giving mobility. use it to explore your meta to find out what you'll be facing. here's a small beginners list i would recommend, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genmotty Posted September 9, 2014 Author Share Posted September 9, 2014 ...Static Guard is long dead, mobility is now viable and effective - notably the ability to move and fire a single shot at full range for Rapid Fire weapons. Objectives are very important to winning, so Troop units are essential components of success as they capture them. Our codex is also very flexible with lots of decent builds and things you can do, including tank commander HQs - thanks to Orders infantry companies are also effective as Orders can do nasty things (like ignore cover) ... For adding to your force it looks like you need some armour! There are plenty of cool variants to pick from for both Russ and Hellhound tanks. I envy you, flicking through the codex and seeing all the cool new stuff must be very exciting for the first time Now for the most important question: do you have some pictures of your troops? What sort of colour scheme and background do they have? Thank you very much for those linked article, I'll certainly be reading through them and the threads over the next few days. I have to say that in the past my force was mostly infantry based along the lines of light infantry and a heathly amount of heavy support firepower - the 'shooty-imperial-guard-from-hell' style, but also with mobile sentinal and stormtrooper elements. It looks like 7th will allow this tradition to still be valid, especially given Orders, however it appears from a quick skim that Psykers and combinations of effects are key to being able to ustilise an infantry force correctly. Indeed, the lack of armour was one of the reasons I decided to splash out with some new Forge World minis, I have to say both the Macharis and Malcador are beautiful models (and I know that my local group is fine with FW minis) which is why I went for this addition. I have to say that there will never be a single Leman Russ in my force composition, mostly for asthetic reasons and principle. On the otherhand, the Hellhound variants do look quite nice. The Devildog has piqued my interest, but I've yet to factor in the full theme of my rebuild, so for now that's going to be second phase. Given both you and Hendrik here have spoken well of the Wyvern, I must give it more thought. I generally do like the look of the model, and it appears to function like a somewhat better heavy weapons mortar team. However while it may be effective in that role, I can forsee in the future heavier artillery requirements, this is why I have purchased some heavy mortars, and even if effectively immobile, their range covers the better part of a standard gaming board and provides some nice juicy bait for scouts/deepstike units to take a risk at. However never having seen the unit in action, perhaps it is worth its points value? The Manticore also looks very nice to me seeing as it now appears to be in the codex, limited fire, but once emptied you've still got a vehicle that can block LOS and lend support with a heavy bolter. One will provide pics in the near future. Perhaps even a build diary of the Malcador I have on order. The 1171st was oridginally a penal legion effectively a mass conscription of lowlifes to be used as cannon folder, but having cut its teeth on the ice world Regland and suvived its climates and foes, the legion would be granted 'regiment' status, and access to heavier arms. Many campaigns were fought from then on, including in the Golgotha Insurgency campaign. However since then the regiment has been whittled down over the years. Key assets having been 'requisitioned' to other regiments of the imperium, and men and material lost during centuries bottled up on backwater worlds rarely seeing any action. Today it is a shaddow of its former self and with few men and material has had to return to the segmentum center to reinforce and equip from a forge world to bring it back up to fighting strenght... As far as I am concerned, the regiments history is much the same as the real life model collections. Although I've already decided on a new homeworld; http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv82/Haths/Aquaria_II_30km_2.png My collection currently uses Cadian models, but given the variety on offer today, that may change. The colour scheme being tan fatigues, with armour having a light green main coat, with armour detail picked out in gloss blue. Camo patterns being tan and dark blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 No problem, hendrik makes good suggestions too but if you're sticking to a less heavy force then you will still find much to work with. The Fast Attack slot will become a favourite for you I expect, with nice and cheap Sentinels to support your infantry and Hellhounds and variants to purge enemy troops :) It'd be worth looking into Veteran squads for an infantry company, they're a great unit especially if you mount them in a Chimera. Sounds like you've some good ideas so I'm looking forward to seeing what you do :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I've fielded heavy mortars and these are in general lacking a heavy artillery punch. If it is heavy firepower you need then there are the following artillery options; Medusa Basilisk Earthshaker emplacement Earthshaker artillery carriage Manticore ,of all these I think you will enjoy the manticore most,however,don't write off the earthshaker carriage,they are lots of fun and as artillery can receive orders! I've scrathbuild 3 and love to use them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genmotty Posted September 10, 2014 Author Share Posted September 10, 2014 I've fielded heavy mortars and these are in general lacking a heavy artillery punch. If it is heavy firepower you need then there are the following artillery options; Medusa Basilisk Earthshaker emplacement Earthshaker artillery carriage Manticore ,of all these I think you will enjoy the manticore most,however,don't write off the earthshaker carriage,they are lots of fun and as artillery can receive orders! I've scrathbuild 3 and love to use them! When I used to play in the past I proxied/played with heavy mortars for a time and thought they were rather good. Afterall, they have reasonable range and their dead zone is small. Meaning that a squad can be left to cover that for if/when a deepstrike arrives. Mostly though they are good all-rounder’s and not so much of a threat that they get prioritised for destruction, but equally if left, can rack up some damage over the course of a game, and in larger games are not massively pts costly. That said, I have seriously considered both the Manticore and Medusa as true heavy artillery to deal with hordes/armour. I’m not a huge fan of the Basilisk or Earthshaker – partially because the dead zone is fairly high, but also they do tend to draw fire (plus the other models are cooler in my mind). I know that with my Tau from the past I would prioritise these weapons given that they could be a serious threat to my game plans. When it comes to choosing between future additions, I can see the Manticore being more flexible overall, this is because its ‘fairly cheap’ and 4 shots should be enough for most games, even large ones, since the range on those buggers is excellent and even if not guaranteed kills, a strong ‘alpha’ component allows snowballing the battle if you can inflict a volley of damage early on in the game. On the otherhand it’s a bit gamey…but I do like the model. When it comes to the Medusa, well there are two options – static or assault gun. (Or the 3rd option – Imperial Bombard although all that lumbering and slow fire stuff doesn’t fill me with great confidence – especially at points cost – although again, I do like the model). The static artillery gun model looks very nice and WW1-esque, and the Cadian pattern is also very nice. Not so sure about the other patterns, they appear a bit too ‘closed up’ for my liking, but in principle that little bit of mobility would be very nice. Currently I am leaning more to the static gun here. My mind is flexible though, and given it appears you can get plastic Manticores these days... If Mech-Vets are competitive now, then I should seriously consider them. I’m guessing the new vehicle damage rules, as well as some of the more choice orders is the reason why getting ‘up close and personal’ with a supporting vehicle is more viable, or is it more for scoring reasons to quickly get some boots down on the objective? Fast attack units will see heavy use, as you will see below there is already a Sentinal Walker core to my exsiting models, which will likely double over the coming months, as I have a soft spot for these walkers since they used to be excellent screens. As I promised. Pictures. http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv82/Haths/20140910_191409_zpse27b7f1f.jpg http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv82/Haths/20140910_191552_zpsc5b49fd7.jpg http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv82/Haths/20140910_191428_zps4af69e37.jpg http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv82/Haths/20140910_191535_zps091ec012.jpg http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv82/Haths/20140910_191515_zps8923cd60.jpg http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv82/Haths/20140910_191443_zps91bbd6fe.jpg http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv82/Haths/20140910_191607_zpsa2a022d2.jpg http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv82/Haths/20140910_191328_zps6e12b5a1.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Mech provides some great mobility, but you need to throw in to make it worth while - 3 or 4 Chimeras is a good number if you don't fancy going all out. Veterans with BS4 and 3 special weapons will make good use of them. A bit of mech can do rather well in artillery lists too as it provides you with some attacking capability for a decent price. I like your colour scheme, I couldn't figure out how it worked when you described it but it looks good in the pictures :tu: I reckon it'd look good on vehicles too with that tan colour ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genmotty Posted September 11, 2014 Author Share Posted September 11, 2014 If mech is the dominant play style for Guard these days, then I'll keep that in mind. I love Chimera models, but always felt another squad of men to up the 'survivability' of an army long term. Although a Mech-Vet section will likely make the grade sooner or later. As I understand it, that given the heavy weapons choice, there's not much reason to pick anything else other than the Heavy Bolter or Heavy Flamer - the flamer is likely better if the transports going to be getting you into the fight. Unless I'm reading the situation wrong, is the typical tactics with mech-vets to advance forward secure objective/terrain then bunker down? This then defines special weapons choices... ...Does this not sink a fair amount on points into somewhat unsupported elements? I.e. it may be out of range of 2-3 other squads that can pile on the laz-fire and flamers the turn after? I can reasonably say that my local group has a range of different factions, key amongst them being both Marrines, and Orks with a fair bucket load of Tau and Tyranids thrown into the mix... not so much CMS, or Necrons (thank god!) EDIT: I think that when it comes to my recent tank purchase I might be changing the camo scheme to a lighter blue along with the tan, and probally some darker browns, since I'm going to go for the 'rust bucket' effect, rather than 'factory production'. Although I'll likely do a workshop diary on that one. Watch the boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 It's not dominant which is great, so you don't have to use transports. Hybrid armies are a good way to have your cake and eat it, the change to rapid fire as mentioned is huge and gives infantry so much more use :) I reckon that's probably a fair assessment of the usual use of mechanised elements, but it depends on your overall list and how the game goes of course. What transports provide is additional mobility and durability so it's up to you how you use it. Heavy flamers on Chimeras is very useful, especially if you have a few advancing or receiving the enemy - their BBQ antics can change the course of a game :D We love our WIP/PLOG/whatever-you-call-it topics so I hope you can get cracking on your Guard soon :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 I mainly use armoured fist units with a meltagun to grab/contest objectives. they are my fastest moving element in the army (flyers not included) and can put some decent pressure while being cheap. veterans do the same, cost only 10 pts more for BS4 and can take more special weapons. these are the heavy cavalry, but will still need backup as you pointed out. as warriorfish said you will need at least 3-4 chimera mounted units, just to provide an objective grabbing element (minimum cost is 1 platoon with 3 infantry squads, everything mounted in chimeras,say only take meltaguns:; 480 pts. for the rest of your list i would recommend 1 camo cloaked veteran squad to stay behind on a rearward objective, or a small platoon. you will definetly want your command squad to be near your artillery for orders, but still need a high S form of artillery to take out armour etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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