Brainstorming: 'Assault-based SW' or 'the Meta-Killer'

[Hear da Lamentation]

In the end, this TWC army at 1500 seems like just 2 big death stars units, let's see how it goes.

 

 

Completely agree.  Which is why it isnt a good idea at 1500 points level.

[toonarmy]

well if he is running swarm lord that changes things!

 

He is a beast in combat but he only has a 3+ save and 4 wounds (4++ in combat mind you!).  He is very slow though.

 

A crazy idea may be to outflank your TWC unit with Harald.  Here me out!!!!  If you equip the unit with a few good guns then you should be able to attack the cornerstones of the army such as synapse and venomthropes.  Right now you have no way of knocking that stuff out which you need to do before you get to combat.  I think my tactic would be to sit as far back on the board as possible.  He has to run at you to get in range with most of his shooting.  then Harald comes on and blasts a unit whilst the rest of your army moves up to assault.

 

Like other i think you have too many expensive units as this points limit as weight of fire will take you down.  I mean 10 devilgaunts is 30 shots at 18" and they can be hidden in 10-20 standard haunts which pump at another shot each at 12".  I do this setup all the time and they muller any multi-wound models. this will remove half your army!!!

 

running with dreads might be good in this list as bids struggle with AV12.  only the flyrant can shoot it out and if you take hellfrost weapons you could take a model out with one shot :)

 

Back more on the thread, the tyranid problem list discussed is a great example of how an all out CC army can suffer.  It has to be supported by something that can kill at range or be enough of a distraction to let our other killy units get there.

[pedrogzc]

the problem with dreadnoughts is flyrant flying pass you and shooting your rear, otherwise would be great addition even with droppod.

 

at 1500 points, probably I would drop krakenbone wgpl and add the third TWC unit or if it's allowed, the Imperial Knight (plus the 100 points still avaiable)

[Frater Cornelius]

the problem with dreadnoughts is flyrant flying pass you and shooting your rear, otherwise would be great addition even with droppod.

 

at 1500 points, probably I would drop krakenbone wgpl and add the third TWC unit or if it's allowed, the Imperial Knight (plus the 100 points still avaiable)

 

Not quite. When swooping, the flyrant is still bound by the limitations every flyer has, namely only turning 90° and minimal movement distance. It is very unlikely a flyrant will get your rear unless he goes into hover mode and makes a 180° turn, in which case the next best unit can charge him.

[pedrogzc]

he has a 360º of view, so doesn't need to turn to shoot your rear.

[Frater Cornelius]

he has a 360º of view, so doesn't need to turn to shoot your rear.

 

In that case.. RUUUUUN!!! Or get a Stormwolf.

[Donkalleone]

I decided to reconsider WG bikes, but not as I did before. They are not shooty enough with their combi-weapons, so I make them choppy. They will be there to chase light armour and horde-control/assault-deterrent. They unleash their Bolters in whatever could tarpit TWC and assault them. They are tough enough to last a while and they can screen the TWC from tarpits as well.

To fill the last points I was considering Rune Priests on Bikes with Tempestas. Living Lightning is actually pretty decent to de-mech opponents, as are the Wolf Spirits, and Thunderclap + that rending large blast are perfect to help with horde-control.

Shrouded can also give jinking bikes a 2+ cover save. I feel that 2 Tempestas Priest can be dangerous.

 

Here is an example list:

 

 

Jarl (Harald)

• 2 Hounds

 

Rune Priest

• Bike, ML2, Axe, Runic Armour

Rune Priest

• Bike, ML2, Axe, Runic Armour

 

Iron Priest

• TWM

• 4 Cyber Hounds

Iron Priest

• TWM

• 4 Cyber Hounds

 

6 WG Bikers

• 2 Power Weapons, 1 Stormshield, 1 Meltabomb

6 WG Bikers

• 2 Power Weapons, 1 Stormshield, 1 Meltabomb

 

4 TWC

• 2 SS, Powerfist

4 TWC

• 2 SS, Powerfist

4 TWC

• 2 SS, Wolf Claw

 

 

 

There is also the possibility to replace the RP with Long Fangs. That list has superior ranged firepower (although that is not the point of that list), backfield scorers and more manpower but 'weaker' bike squads and less horde-control.

 

Here is the Long Fang variant:

 

 

Jarl (Harald)

• 2 Hounds

 

Iron Priest

• TWM

• 4 Cyber Hounds

Iron Priest

• TWM

• 4 Cyber Hounds

 

6 WG Bikers

• 2 Power Weapons

6 WG Bikers

• 2 Power Weapons

 

4 TWC

• 2 SS, Powerfist

4 TWC

• 2 SS, Powerfist

4 TWC

• 2 SS, Wolf Claw

 

5 Long Fangs

• 4 Lascannons

5 Long Fangs

• 4 Lascannons

 

 

 

Let me know if what you think of this bike setup and whether you consider the RP worth the reduced manpower on the field.

 

Or do you recon I am better of with off with drop pod or mechanized infantry to support the cavalry?

The Long Fangs are a nice Idea but i would play them Different. Get a RP LVL2 Prescience and get a Full Unit.

I think 5 TL- LasCan/PlasCan (AP2 Blast) are better than 2 troops of 4.

So Going

RP + 6 LF 5 LC +(1TL-PlasmaGun for Ancient)

5LF + 3 ML + (1 HB [splitfire])

Thats 400points AV-less. And Since u dont like HBs (Forebonding?) ML are better than 3 more LC.

Most important this a garantied List. If you are Lucky u can Roll for Perfect Timing to ignore Cover.

Or Forebonding for Invul.

[Hear da Lamentation]

having a termie WGPL with a Stormshield is a cheap option to increase survivability a lot. 

[wulfgar hammerfist]

Tyranid FMCs are a problem for me as well. The tyranid player here fields a Harridan which is like a flying WK with 12 S10 AP3 shots. That thing is just gross!

[Frater Cornelius]

I usually tend to ignore some codecies, Tyranids are one of those. I do not face many Tyranid players at my store and I do not see a lot of players mentioning them at tourneys.

Do not try to beat everything. Focus on doing one thing well.

[FenrisWolf]

Damn, don't get me started on the power of Enfeeblement. I had a very hard time against a MSU SW player with 4 ML2 RP who all rolled on Biomancy and 3 got that power. It was... hard

Anyway, update on my end. This is what I played today:

Jarl (Harald)

• 2 Hounds

WGBL

• RA, SS, MB, TWM, KBS, FCT

• 2 Hounds

Iron Priest

• TWM

• 4 Cyber Hounds

Iron Priest

• TWM

• 4 Cyber Hounds

Iron Priest

• TWM

• 3 Cyber Hounds

1 Servitor

1 Servitor

1 Servitor

4 TWC

• 2 SS, Powerfist

4 TWC

• 2 SS, Powerfist

5 TWC

• 2 SS, Pair of Wolf Claws

Stormfang

• TLLC, TLHB

I played against 2 guys who combined their Tau forces. Game was over bottom of turn 3 due them not being the best players and me tabling them. I got some turn 1 changes because they got greedy. IP usually went solo after they weathered one shooting phase as a unit and ate tanks. TWC massacred Riptides and Fire Warriors, Jarl and WGBL went after Broadsides and Crisis to eat them alive.

The Stormfang was also very valuable in that setup because he put plenty of FW into building where my Cav could not reach. His large blast and TLHB really decimated them. That thing has actually pretty decent horde control, will try it again.

My greatest weapon was me being able to weather their attacks as a unit but then going solo with all IC and doing multi-charges with the TWC. That way only the units in the building were able to shoot since the rest was stuck in combat.

The servitors just parked themselves into the closest objective they could find and stayed there. Like the owner of the store put it: "The objectives were held by a bunch of drooling idiots." That guy is awesome. But they did precisely that. They pretty much forgot them because the very nice men on horses wanted to have a chat

Overall, fairly successful. I will get me some more experienced players next time to test some more strategies.

Edit: Storm-freaking-FANG. I am used to write the word Wolf, but it is the Stormfang I used. I changed it in the army list

Immersturm, does this list come to 1852 points or am I doing something wrong?

[Frater Cornelius]

Indeed, how embarrassing. Drop the Meltabomb from the WGBL. Well, I guess now I know why Tau lost. That one MB made all the difference in the world :D

[FenrisWolf]

Melta bomb of Tau slaying!

[Wispy]

I know you're probably not happy with me after I snarked your horsies Immerstrum, but breaking the shooty meta is a noble endeavor and I wish you luck. :)

 

 

I had my own fun the other night crushing a shooty army of Space Marines with our hallmark assault units. It was a mostly well-rounded army, but it did feature Harald and a single squad of Thunderwolves kitted with shields and a frost sword. I was vastly outnumbered, but still managed to roam across the field and killed his Warlord, 4 tactical squads, an Ironclad, and a tank with just them.

 

Harald  being able to go high-strength or high initiative/rending saved my bacon numerous times.

[Gengar]

I'm actually considering a high assualt army with loads of bikes atm to actually go pretty heavy on assaults and drive by's and close range magics. but I have almost no field experience to actually have an idea if it'l be effective or not.(an open topic in army lists atm , itl be my very first 'full'  1500 points army so i'm taking my sweet sweet time planning)

Having said to go for choppy WG bikers though Donkalleone, ...but aren't swiftclaws like made to do that job? u know...for fewer points? (and 1 less ws)

I do like the TWC statline though but i'm not really huge on the man riding predator thing...a wolf, even a thunder one seems to...fleshy to me to have toughness 5...Riding a tamed tyrannid seems to be more effective since there atleast scales and bone: p

[Frater Cornelius]

I'm actually considering a high assualt army with loads of bikes atm to actually go pretty heavy on assaults and drive by's and close range magics. but I have almost no field experience to actually have an idea if it'l be effective or not.(an open topic in army lists atm , itl be my very first 'full'  1500 points army so i'm taking my sweet sweet time planning)

 

Having said to go for choppy WG bikers though Donkalleone, ...but aren't swiftclaws like made to do that job? u know...for fewer points? (and 1 less ws)

 

I do like the TWC statline though but i'm not really huge on the man riding predator thing...a wolf, even a thunder one seems to...fleshy to me to have toughness 5...Riding a tamed tyrannid seems to be more effective since there atleast scales and bone: p

 

Swiftclaws? No. First off, if you are running WG, you are running the COF detachment. That means WG get WS5. Second, Swifts have lost their CCW/BP combo (they can chose one of the two) and thus losing an attack. Paying 5 points extra for +2WG and +1A on the charge (+2 in all other scenarios) is a fair deal and superior if you want bikes to spearhead your assault.

 

As for the TWC, get creative, man. Get some Green Stuff and put armour on the Wolves. Hell, I have my dudes riding fully armoured horses. That does the trick well enough.

[Gengar]

COF detachment WG get +1 WS...huh I dind't know, that's pretty nice..changes alot of ideas in my head now...thanks you officially gave me a headache: p

As for armoring a thunderwolf...that's REALLY challeging, My GS fu is weak so I can't go sculpt full plates of armor , so i'm trying to think outside of the box and think of models who's armour plates I could 'slab' one with some gs on those Twolves... but without making it look like a mekboy had a job day in the space wolves HQ.

Horses can do the trick but well...if this trend continues then there will be more 'Thunderhorse' cavalry then actual thunderwolves: p
 

How HQ choices does the COF detachment get then?
Also does TWC get a +1 WS aswell with COF? since there 'technically' WG

[Jochteas]

The TWC get a +1 WS (Oddly the WGBL doesn't ) and I believe it has 4 HQ slots.

[Frater Cornelius]

The TWC get a +1 WS (Oddly the WGBL doesn't ) and I believe it has 4 HQ slots.

Well, he has WS5 to begin with. Otherwise there would be no point to take the Wolf Lord anymore.

[Frater Cornelius]

Time for the next step.

 

I know that I am somewhat going back on my word with allies, but I always wanted to try GK. Now that they have a new book I think this is a nice opportunity to get me some shiny models. They have a low model count and I think it can help my list.

I was thinking to get them as allies. Take my 1850 list above, drop the WGBL, drop the Stormfang, reduce all Cyber wolves to 3 per Priest and reduce the 5man TWC unit down to the regular 4 man.

Add a GK Librarian ML3, 5 GKTDA with Psycannon and sergeant with Falchions, and a Nemesis Dreadknight with Heavy Incinerator, Teleporter and Heavy Psycannon.

 

The Nemesis is a good target. He knows Sanctuary, so he can pump himself up to 4++, he jump together with TWC, flames + shoots a target and either dies by saving the TWC or help the assault turn 2. He is another big dude you can not ignore. And he is fast, 30" jump and 12" movement is good.

The TDA are Troops with the best price/performance ratio in my eyes. They are there to protect the ML3 TDA Librarian. He is damn cheap and with 5 WC on the field and 3 rolls on Divination (or Telepathy) + the Primaris will really be awesome. Prescience on a TWC would be nice, as would be a 4++ save for all those wolves. Misfortune really annoys Wraithknights and such and Perfect Timing allows the Psycannon to kill Jinkers.

The TDA will either deploy or deep strike, depending on the enemy and where I need them the most. It also gives me an excuse to field those smexy GKTDA models.

 

The List:

 

 

Jarl (Harald)
• 2 Hounds

 

Iron Priest
• TWM
• 3 Cyber Hounds
Iron Priest
• TWM
• 3 Cyber Hounds

Iron Priest
• TWM
• 3 Cyber Hounds

 

4 TWC

• 2 SS, Powerfist
4 TWC
• 2 SS, Powerfist

4 TWC
• 2 SS, Pair of Wolf Claws

 

GK Librarian

• TDA, Nemesis Power Weapon

• ML3

 

5 GK Terminators

• Psycannon

• Justicar with Falchions

 

Nemesis Dreadknight

• Heavy Incinerator, Heavy Psycannon, Jump Pack

 

1850 points.

 

 

 

Tell me what you think.

[Jochteas]

This list may be awesome, but I am way to much of a flurb to be able to take a GK allied detachment with space wolves.

[Frater Cornelius]

They aren't GK. I will convert the TDA to be Elders. They are ancient Druids. The oldest of the Company and wield fancy powers. They will be full of golden germanic rules and celtic knots.

The Dreadknight. Not sure there. I think I will continue my beast/druid theme and make it a giant armoured war beast. Like a Werebear or whatever. I still have big beast heads at home and plenty of Green Stuff.

[FenrisWolf]

I do like how you fold stuff in Immersturm! You easily have one of the most characterful set of ideas here.  Excellent cross use of models.  I'd give you an award just for that!

[Jochteas]

They aren't GK. I will convert the TDA to be Elders. They are ancient Druids. The oldest of the Company and wield fancy powers. They will be full of golden germanic rules and celtic knots.

The Dreadknight. Not sure there. I think I will continue my beast/druid theme and make it a giant armoured war beast. Like a Werebear or whatever. I still have big beast heads at home and plenty of Green Stuff.

I find this acceptable, very very acceptable (See: Awesome)

[Frater Cornelius]

Thanks :)

 

I always try to strike a balance between competitive and fluff. After all I have to like my army, so the fluff must be right ;)