Hear da Lamentation Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Boooooo !!!! Boooo to the Grey Knights I say. Keep it real. Keep it Wolf :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296901-brainstorming-assault-based-sw-or-the-meta-killer/page/7/#findComment-3822777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Boooooo !!!! Boooo to the Grey Knights I say. Keep it real. Keep it Wolf They use the rules, but he hasn't been making a Space Wolves army from the start. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296901-brainstorming-assault-based-sw-or-the-meta-killer/page/7/#findComment-3822862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 No, he means codex purity. But in the end. Librarian and TDA are interchangeable with WG counterparts. It's the NDK I am after. And those 215 points from another codex won't hurt anyone. Not like I am committing half my army to another codex. In the end, I want to build and convert GK units and that is what I am going to do :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296901-brainstorming-assault-based-sw-or-the-meta-killer/page/7/#findComment-3822885 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 No, he means codex purity. I understand that, my point to him is that making Space Wolves was never a value here so why should codex purity suddenly matter? You're not trying to make Space Wolves, you're making your Wild Ride while trying to be competitive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296901-brainstorming-assault-based-sw-or-the-meta-killer/page/7/#findComment-3822892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 Well, he's just channeling my usual opinion about allies. That is why I said I am going to make an exception for GK because I always wanted play them. And damn right I am making the Wild Hunt. I need more Spirit Hosts for dem Druid boyz :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296901-brainstorming-assault-based-sw-or-the-meta-killer/page/7/#findComment-3822903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 Here is another list. Opinions on allies and GK aside, which one do you find superior. The GK one I posted above? Or this one? Jarl (Harald)• 2 Hounds Iron Priest• TWM• 4 Cyber HoundsIron Priest• TWM• 3 Cyber Hounds Iron Priest• TWM• 3 Cyber Hounds 5 Wolf Guard • 5 Combi-Plasmas • Drop Pod 5 Wolf Guard • 5 Combi-Flamers • Drop Pod 5 Wolf Guard • 5 Combi-Meltas • Drop Pod 4 TWC• 2 SS, Powerfist4 TWC• 2 SS, Powerfist 4 TWC• 2 SS, Pair of Wolf Claws 1846 points. This one sacrifices field presence, bullet magnet, horde control and psychic support in favour of alpha strike. Is it worth it? Even I have to admit that the alpha strike list looks stronger at first glance. But the more I think about it, the more I gravitate towards GK. The reason is that I have enough anti-elite units. What I need is horde control. Sure, the combi-flamers and bolters are nice, but in the long-run it can not compare to the fire-power a Dreadknight can put out. Second reason is that the NDK offers an invaluable distraction unit. The pods land, they shoot and you can forget about the 5 dudes there and focus on the TWC. You can not forget a NDK. If you do, he will tear you a new one. Third reason is that I get 5+D6 Warp Charges from the GK and 3 rolls on Divination or Telepathy. I feel that this small bit of utility can really make a difference. When fighting other WS5 units those rerolls will come in very handy. Or when I am facing a Death Star or Super-Heavy I can combine all Priests, one TWC unit and the Jarl into one massive blob and cast invisibility on it, should I get it on Telepathy. The pod version only gives me one shot at blowing that thing up. And finally, armies like Eldar and Necrons are almost immune to alpha strike due to Jink and their Shields. What do you think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296901-brainstorming-assault-based-sw-or-the-meta-killer/page/7/#findComment-3822967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochteas Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 2 things, 1) I notice you are starting to include a pair of wolf claws in your list, que? 2) Why not drop 1 of the Cyber Wolves, and give the TWC with the wolf claw pair, 1 Iron Fist, and 1 WC, this would give you the best of both worlds, deciding each turn if you want to a) +1 Str, ap 3 shred through soft targets, or x2 str AP 2 crush harder targets. And it makes that guy a challenging beast (Small pun intended) because now he has the 2 best weapons for each situation. And since they are both specialist weapons you get the +1 attack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296901-brainstorming-assault-based-sw-or-the-meta-killer/page/7/#findComment-3823270 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 After having a chat with the GK guys I decided to drop the WC. I mean with S5 and Furious Charge that +1S and Shred loses value. Against MC fists do a better job. AP3 is cute but not as necessary due to rending and volume of attacks. Instead I added the Liber Daemonica relic from the GK book to the Librarian. Seriously, that relic is Tigurius on crack. Serious business. Librarian went from 'nice to have' to 'solid support'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296901-brainstorming-assault-based-sw-or-the-meta-killer/page/7/#findComment-3823333 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochteas Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Can you break down what he does? I don't have the codex and barely have any clue about GK business. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296901-brainstorming-assault-based-sw-or-the-meta-killer/page/7/#findComment-3823338 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 It gives the user one more power than his mastery level allows, which must be generated from Sanctic. In addition, the psyker and all friendly units within 6" reroll 1s during the psychic test when attempting to manifest Sanctic powers. So, for one this will help TDA cast Hammerhand, which is nice, and the NDK cast Sanctuary, which is super important. Then I get 1 free roll on Sanctic in addition to whatever I want to roll on, which is great. I can also start of rolling on Sanctic until I either deplete my rolls of get what I need. I will be looking for Cleansing Flame, Gate of Infinity or Vortex of Doom, and then spend one last roll on Divination to get the Primaris. And when casting Sanctic stuff, I am able to reroll 1s meaning I can invest less dice when casting the power. That's just insane. Given some of the powers there, it can get crazy at times. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296901-brainstorming-assault-based-sw-or-the-meta-killer/page/7/#findComment-3823361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochteas Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Well like I said I'm not super on on psyker powers and what not, but I do know the TWC lists have been absent of using any real, nor having any real defense, this might help that no? Also yeah, GKTDA are pretty amazing ( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296901-brainstorming-assault-based-sw-or-the-meta-killer/page/7/#findComment-3823371 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 This list may be awesome, but I am way to much of a flurb to be able to take a GK allied detachment with space wolves. in the first War of Armageddon we fought together plus the of thousands years before that compared with few hundred since. Plus if anything the grey knights show a growing respect for the space wolves during the war of shame so much so the inquisition don't call them to the final battle for fear they won't come. The war was more with the inquisition than the grey knights Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296901-brainstorming-assault-based-sw-or-the-meta-killer/page/7/#findComment-3823394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 Well, it's not every day that someone storms you bridge, beheads your Grand Master, kills a few Justicars and stolls out again. I'd have respect for them, too :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296901-brainstorming-assault-based-sw-or-the-meta-killer/page/7/#findComment-3823400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 4, 2014 Author Share Posted October 4, 2014 Feedback time! I used the SW+GK list and did two games with it. First game was against 2000 points Black Templars and Necrons (they were 2 players). Yes, I gave them a 150 point advantage. Won't go deep into the list, because it was pretty much a stomp. I lost very few models while they got tabled turn 3. Multicharges really are great, especially turn 1. Dreadknight took out Centurions and the shooty version of a Ghost Arc as well as a full unit of Necron Warriors. The TDA ported to the BT corner with gate and did 2 cleansing flames on 2 turns, killing almost 2 tac units and a whirlwind (shooting included). TWC reduced the rest to meatballs. The second game is the real interesting one. Why? Because everything that could've been skewed against me was skewed against me. First up, it was Necrons. In itself this is not a problem, because melee counters them fairly well. But it was Tesla spam. THREE Annihilation Barges, THREE full unit of Tesla Immortals, a Night Scythe with Deathmarks and TWO harbingers of dispair, six Wraiths, scarabs and two command barges with Lords. Massed high strength shooting really hurts TWC. But that is not all. The terrain was horrible. No real line of sight blockers. We were also forced to play on a smaller table and it was completely covered with craters and other terrain. Every movement phase every model had to do THREE terrain checks to get anywhere, same for charging as well. I think J lost 1/3 or 1/4 of my TWC force to terrain alone. Good lord! In the end I tabled him turn 7, although the game was over turn 4. In his first shooting phase he got really lucky with Tesla rolls and he killed an entire TWC unit and a Priest and reduced Harald to 2 wounds. I basically started the game with 2 TWC unit. But then it all turned. One TWC unit reduced Wraiths to scrap after 3 phases (he charged) with tolerable casualties. Nemesis Knight killed a unit of Immortals and 2 annihilation barges within 3 consecutive turns. One TWC unit managed to kill both command barges and the cryptec (harbinger) unit in one multicharge. The Rending and S10 really messed up his barges. The same unit took out a unit of Immortals and an Annihilation barge with a multicharge right after while the unit that killed the Wraiths took out the last unit of immortals. TDA jumped around the field with Gate of Infinity and tossed around really devastating Novas because I managed to get his unit together fairly well. In the end one member of one TWC unit, another fairly beat up TWC unit, the TDA with Librarian and the Knight were standing. Should've been more but oh well, gotta fight those disadvantages. In the end I have to say the Nemesis Knight performed admirably and it is save to say that he saved the game by killing those backfield campers. The TDA with Librarian did really well with their psychic shenanigans. In hind-sight I should've been MUCH more aggressive with both Gate TDA and Nemesis. Overall, good game. Won by annihilation and victory points. If not for the terrain and some rather abysmal melee rolls later in the game it would've been MUCH better but a victory is still a victory. The GK are definitely here to stay though. Really got to work on my unit management though. I feel I can get much better results that way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296901-brainstorming-assault-based-sw-or-the-meta-killer/page/7/#findComment-3825277 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisWolf Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Awesome results, Immersturm! Congrats on the wins, and the list building! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296901-brainstorming-assault-based-sw-or-the-meta-killer/page/7/#findComment-3825539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 6, 2014 Author Share Posted October 6, 2014 After having a few games and a few thinking sessions, I have come up with a way to slightly change the SW+GK list. Here is the result: Jarl (Harald)• 2 Hounds Iron Priest• TWM• 4 Cyber HoundsIron Priest• TWM• 4 Cyber Hounds Iron Priest• TWM• 4 Cyber Hounds 5 TWC • 2 SS, Power Axe5 TWC• 2 SS, Power Axe 10 Fenrisian Wolves Grey Knight Librarian • Stormbolter, ML3, Warding Staff • Domina Liber Daemonicus 5 Grey Knight Terminators • Justicar, Falchions • Psycannon Nemesis Dreadknight • Nemesis Greatsword, Heavy Incinerator, Heavy Psycannon, Teleporter 1850 points. The general idea is that I dropped 2 TWC models (yes, a 4man unit is gone, but the other 2 have 1 more member) and a few upgrades for an ungodly increase of Wolves. This makes the remaining two TWC units much more durable, with or without IP. It makes the IP more durable when going solo. And most importantly, it indirectly increases the durability of the Harald. You see, Harald with 1 IP are going to ride in the 10dog FW unit. That amount to 12 FW, 4 CW, 1 IP and Harald. However, those Wolves cost me next to nothing. Yes, the unit will be only T4, but that makes it even sweeter because the enemy is more likely to shoot them. Against S7 spam it doesn't even matter. So does the enemy shoot at the Wolves to disable my HQ bubble and get Slay the Warlord but wastes his shooting on 150-ish points of wolves, or does he ignore Harald and his dogs and shoots and the considerably tougher TWC unit. This also makes the setup more effective at breaking tarpits and the FW can act as an assault screen or eat overwatch, or add cover to the TWC by running in front of them. On the GK side I added the Sword to the NDK because 1 reroll with 4-5 attacks is solid and mainly because he can now activate Force to ID pesky MC (he can clear an entire Carnifex UNIT in one assault phase like that). I consider that list an improvement over the old list, which was a spread a little to thin and thus sacrificing individual toughness. However, there is still another issue. I have been toying with the idea to drop the Grey Knight allies to include 3 drop pods and take it more into an an alpha-strike-y direction. It has, however, two MAJOR downfalls. Still, I wanted to hear your opinion. 1) Ulrik + 5 PAWG w/ CP 2) 10 GH, 2 PG, 1 CP, 1 Banner 3) 10 GH, 2 MG, 1 CM The TWC units will need to be reduced to 4 man, the FW down to 6 dogs and the CW down to 2 per IP (one can have 3). This reduces assault potential by a huge margin. No TDA jumping around, no NDK and way less field presence. But, it adds alpha strike and force multipliers with Banner and Ulrik's bubble. This looks very damn strong on paper, especially when you consider that your field presence just sky-rocketed with 3 pods and 26 PA bodies on the ground. However, I see 2 MAJOR downfalls of that list, which make me very cautious: 1) When I do not get first turn, I will have very little field presence in the beginning and very poor defense because I will have little to no wolves and only 4man TWC units. This is the same problem I had with the previous TWC-only incarnation, only made much more dangerous. I could lose the majority of my assaulting force turn 1 against armies like Necrons, Tau and Eldar, who just spam me with S7 shots. 2) The second downfall is that the high interdependence of those units reduces flexibility down to 0. For one it will be much easier to make mistakes because the concept is very complicated, since 3 different bubbles need to be managed (Harald, Ulrik, Banner) and since the TWC presence is reduced. And it also makes dropping down to 1750 and even 1500 (also very common tournament formats) almost impossible because I would be dropping units that are crucial to the list. Overall, while I see the appeal of the alpha strike list, I am gravitating towards the TWC + GK list. The reason is that the TWC list is much more flexible in it's approach and the strategy is not set in stone. The alpha list is easily analyzed by an experienced player and since it requires a lot of setting up, I will make mistakes, mistakes I would not make in the TWC list due to it's simplicity. I just feel that the alpha list only looks good on paper but will be a chore to play. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296901-brainstorming-assault-based-sw-or-the-meta-killer/page/7/#findComment-3826782 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedrogzc Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I would go for the Hunters droppod, mostly because I don't like using allies, but competition wise, the army is stronger with the GK ally. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296901-brainstorming-assault-based-sw-or-the-meta-killer/page/7/#findComment-3827344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 I don't like allies either, but the detachment is so small and all units (Dreadknight notwithstanding) are interchangable with SW models, so I have no issues with them yet. In the end, I feel that th flexibility of the SW+GK list really does it for me. I have literally no idea how to reduce the drop pod list down to 1500 or 1750 without losing crucial elements. And the almost naked TWC with IP are just asking to be alpha'd. Heads up. On thursday I will take the latest version of the SW+GK list out for a spin against an Eldar tournament player and one of our local cheese masters. It will definitely be a fun game and I really need to be at my best there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296901-brainstorming-assault-based-sw-or-the-meta-killer/page/7/#findComment-3827354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisWolf Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 So how would your 1500 point and 1750 point lists look? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296901-brainstorming-assault-based-sw-or-the-meta-killer/page/7/#findComment-3827365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 1750: Jarl (Harald)• 2 Hounds Iron Priest• TWM• 4 Cyber HoundsIron Priest• TWM• 4 Cyber Hounds Iron Priest• TWM• 3 Cyber Hounds 4 TWC • 2 SS, Power Axe4 TWC• 2 SS, Power Axe 10 Fenrisian Wolves Grey Knight Librarian • ML3, Warding Staff • Domina Liber Daemonicus 5 Grey Knight Terminators • Justicar, Falchions • Psycannon Nemesis Dreadknight • Nemesis Greatsword, Heavy Incinerator, Heavy Psycannon, Teleporter 1750 points. 1500: Jarl (Harald)• 2 Hounds Iron Priest• TWM• 3 Cyber HoundsIron Priest• TWM• 3 Cyber Hounds 4 TWC • 2 SS, Power Axe4 TWC• 2 SS, Power Axe 10 Fenrisian Wolves Grey Knight Librarian • ML3, Warding Staff • Domina Liber Daemonicus 5 Grey Knight Strike Squad • Justicar, Falchions • Incinerator Nemesis Dreadknight • Nemesis Greatsword, Heavy Incinerator, Heavy Psycannon, Teleporter 1500 points. Not finalized yet, just based on a gut reaction. But this is what is so great. That 1850 list is so flexible in it's approach that you can swap around practically everything, depending on your needs. This is the reason I wouldn't play the drop pod list. It lacks this sort of flexibility due to high interdependency. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296901-brainstorming-assault-based-sw-or-the-meta-killer/page/7/#findComment-3827449 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochteas Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 So I can just send you Immersturm the bill for the GK force I'm going to have to buy because you are making them sound so trigger excellent? Yes? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296901-brainstorming-assault-based-sw-or-the-meta-killer/page/7/#findComment-3827574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 Wait until the game against the Eldar on Thursday. I am still looking for either different allies or a pure list that brings the same amount of flexibility and performance. Nothing is set in stone yet. But if they perform well against the Eldar, that will certain cement their position. As for GK themselves.. do not tell say it in the GK forum, but I think they are fine. They may complain about the blandness of their codex and that they are a glorified allied detachment. I do not think that is true. I mean, look at Eldar. All they use are Jetbikes, Wave Serpents and Wraithknights. Necrons spam Tesla units. Tau spam Battlesuits. I spam TWC. Every codex has their strong and unique units. GK is no different. Sure, they may not have as many fluffy units, but they still have allies, some of the best TDA in the Imperium and the arguably scariest MC around. They are definitely worth a look, despite the whine going on. I like them so far as an allied detachment. I am currently experimenting with IG allies, but as of right now I am lacking real punch. Maybe the IG forum can bring some shenanigans to convince me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296901-brainstorming-assault-based-sw-or-the-meta-killer/page/7/#findComment-3827645 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochteas Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Again this is outside looking in, but it seems one of the better assets of the GK or at least a very nice asset of the GK is they give you some psyker ability/defense. Nothing but TWC is cool and all, but the lack of mounted Rune Priest on TWC is sad (Don't say they can drive a Motorcycle its not the same! Its 4 leg drive or none at all ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296901-brainstorming-assault-based-sw-or-the-meta-killer/page/7/#findComment-3827662 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 I was actually thinking about converted Rune Priests to ride some sort of fast looking 4-legged beast to be counts-as bike. Sure, TWC will lose fleet, but you can always detach him when you are about to charge. The other side of cause is that I am not quite sold on Rune Priests yet as opposed to a GK Librarian. Maybe I open up a thread about the use of Rune Priests to get some collective info and opinions. God, I love the SW forum. So many informative guys around, it's a joy to be here Edit: I just checked something. It would be possibly to combine my 1850 SW+GK list with 2 bike RP. It would look like this: Jarl (Harald)• 2 Hounds Rune Priest • ML2, Runic Axe, Bike Rune Priest • ML2, Runic Axe, Bike Iron Priest• TWM• 3 Cyber HoundsIron Priest• TWM• 3 Cyber Hounds Iron Priest• TWM• 3 Cyber Hounds 4 TWC • 2 SS, Power Axe4 TWC• 2 SS, Power Axe 8 Fenrisian Wolves • Cyber Wolf Grey Knight Librarian • ML3, Warding Staff • Domina Liber Daemonicus 5 Grey Strike Squad • Incinerator Nemesis Dreadknight • Nemesis Greatsword, Heavy Incinerator, Heavy Psycannon, Teleporter 1850 points. What happened was that I reduced TDA to Strikers, which gives me the same ranged output (better against hordes with flamer) but less melee prowess and less durability. Still, the unit is there for the mandatory slot and more HP for the Librarian. He should not be at the front lines anyway. He is a Sanctic support battery. Then I dropped the TWC down to 4 each, which might seem like a loss in durability, which is true, but since the T5 2W RP will be riding there, it will be the same amount of HP in addition to a possible Biomancy character or unit buff or a debuff for the enemy, or in case of hordes or mech spam, better AV capabilities at range. The only real loss comes in form of Wolves. I needed to drop 2 Fenrisian Wolves from the HQ unit (one of those will be a Cyber Wolf though, so that is cool) and 1 CW on each IP, which is 1 less HP for the TWC units. The advantages are that I have more Warp Charges and thus better chances to get all of my necessary things done (Force/Sanctuary/Biomancy) and better psychic defense. It also gives me a potential buff to the unit or simply a really nasty melee character OR decent transport busting capabilities, which is always great to have in a melee army. Feedback required ASAP since I want to potentially try it on Thursday Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296901-brainstorming-assault-based-sw-or-the-meta-killer/page/7/#findComment-3827671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 Okay so the RP thread basically concluded with not taking the RP. Fair enough. By the way, I have been dicking around with my army builder and I have another list up and running. While it may not have any shunting NDK, no scouting White Scar murder or any shooting whatsoever, it does have good choppa. This is me basically giving up any notion of sanity and subtlety. Have a look: Jarl (Harald) • 2 Hounds WGBL • RA, SS, TWM, Krakenbone Sword, Fellclaw's Teeth • 2 Hounds Canis Wolfborn • 2 Hounds Iron Priest• TWM• 4 Cyber HoundsIron Priest• TWM• 4 Cyber Hounds Iron Priest• TWM• 4 Cyber Hounds Servitor Servitor Servitor 6 TWC • 3 SS, Power Axe6 TWC• 3 SS, Power Axe 14 Fenrisian Wolves 1850 points. Canis joins the big Fenrisian Wolves pack with an Iron Priest. All Wolves in Canis' unit reroll to hit. Get Furious Charge from Harald on top and you have an anti-infantry unit full of murder. Meanwhile Harald and the WGBL join the 6man TWC units with their IP and kill the heavier stuff. They can all split up when they need to and turn 2 the game should be over. Meanwhile the servitors hang around objectives, save in the knowledge that only a retard would shoot them :D The problem with the list is basically that I give the enemy 1 whole turn to shoot me without any retaliation, unless he is dumb enough to get too close in which case I could charge him T1. This is as simple as it gets. How do you think will it compare to the SW+GK list or to a SW+WS list? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296901-brainstorming-assault-based-sw-or-the-meta-killer/page/7/#findComment-3828251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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