chaos to have new battle brother?

[hornywingythingy]

Just heard on the frontline gaming podcast reecius say chaos is to get a new battle brother force? He wouldn't say more than that (episode 276, about 24-25 minutes in) but it got me thinking, what would it be? Chaos knights? Lost and the damned? Traitor guard? Chaos equivalent of inquisition? Chaos squats (reset the clock!)

could all be dross, but it's interesting to hear.

 

*reecius has just been on the podcast talking about this today, it's referencing the New forge world book, adding New units and a battle brothers traitor guard list.

(edit 1/10/14 for more info)

[Loesh]

Chaos Inquisition would be awesome, having the radicals go right over the edge.

[Iron_Within]

Yeah I'll be over here dying of salt poisoning....

 

It would likely be the siege of Vraks IG armies getting an update

[Excessus]

Yeah I'll be over here dying of salt poisoning....

 

It would likely be the siege of Vraks IG armies getting an update

This is what I'm thinking as well. IF L&D are coming back, I'd be surprised if they weren't BB with chaos...

[Forté]

Don't get your hopes up. Wait till an announcement to get excited ;)

[Shuggnuggath]

My guess is the FW chaos renegades update.

[Lucien Eilam]

Few things depress me more about the hobby than people wanting "Chaos" versions of Imperial institutions.
 
I'd hope that with all the weird cultists, mutants, Chaos-worshipping Xenos races, Warp technology, unaligned daemons, etc. that have been depicted in the art and fiction, they'd be able to  come up with something more imaginative than Inquisitors… but with spikes on, Assassins… but with spikes on, etc.
 
You want Chaos Assassins? Okay. But let's see what a Chaos Lord would use to assassinate somebody when he can draw on forbidden Dark Mechanicum technology, Warp-tainted aliens, foul mutations, and then possess the whole thing with a daemon. Anything but a Culexus with Faction: Forces of Chaos. Imagine sending the Ragged Knight after the enemy warlord, or his shadow coming alive with a thousand hungry mouths.
 
There must be more to daemonically-infused super-heavy walkers than an Imperial Knight with tentacles for arms. Forget "Chaos Inquisitors" (‽), how about the Cognitae? The Rak'Gol or the saruthi?
 
There's so much more in the background they could build on than "stuff you can already put on the table… but evil".

[Loesh]

 

There's so much more in the background they could build on than "stuff you can already put on the table… but evil".

 

You say this like we aren't the good guys.

 

But on a more serious note, simply saying a Imperial institution just get's spikes put on it is a vast oversimplification of Chaos corruption that doesn't really grasp what Chaos is or how it functions. That Dark Mechanium Technology? Those Warp Tainted Aliens? Those Foul Mutations? Even spiritually speaking, the concept of Daemons forming from the Sea of Souls, those were all formally non-chaos institutions.

 

Chaos is the corrupter, it's the tempter, the horror is from the fact they used to be something else but that Chaos gobbled them up and turned them into this. To say they simply have spikes put on them is a fundamental misunderstanding of what Chaos is or what it does, because the real terror of Chaos comes from us and how we are transformed by what is essentially, the physical manifestations of the dark parts of our personality.

 

Edit: Didn't see the bit about the imperial knight, but still strictly speaking, i'd rather see more Chaos Corruptions of humanity then aliens.

[Lucien Eilam]

To say they simply have spikes put on them is a fundamental misunderstanding of what Chaos is or what it does

 

Speaking of fundamental misunderstandings…

 

Dude, come on. I'm not saying it is. My entire point is that it isn't, or shouldn't be. Since it apparently wasn't thumpingly obvious enough: take "with spikes on" as any brand of witless, unimaginative Chaosification of another army's units.

 

But that is what people ask for. Look at literally any recent Imperial release thread, and you'll have multiple Chaos players bitching about not being able to take it with their Chaos army. They never say "why don't we get a data slate for something cool, and unique, and completely outside the sphere of Imperial influences?"

[Loesh]

 

To say they simply have spikes put on them is a fundamental misunderstanding of what Chaos is or what it does

 

Speaking of fundamental misunderstandings…

 

Dude, come on. I'm not saying it is. My entire point is that it isn't, or shouldn't be. Since it apparently wasn't thumpingly obvious enough: take "with spikes on" as any brand of witless, unimaginative Chaosification of another army's units.

 

But that is what people ask for. Look at literally any recent Imperial release thread, and you'll have multiple Chaos players bitching about not being able to take it with their Chaos army. They never say "why don't we get a data slate for something cool, and unique, and completely outside the sphere of Imperial influences?"

 

 

it implies that it's all you can think of doing with Inquisitors rather then being more creative with them, if other people just want to put spikes on em, let em just put spikes on em. Doesn't mean it's not something that shouldn't be done.

 

As for the latter part, it's because that's what people(Like me.) enjoy, not because it's unimaginative, but because at least for me most of Chaos is composed of formerly Imperial Organizations and seeing how Chaos twists and transforms them is more interesting then seeing the characterization of corrupted aliens I can't really relate with, I'd rather take Imperial stuff, and see how Chaos corrupt it into something that is, in itself, unique but not divorced entirely from mankind.

[hornywingythingy]

"why don't we get a data slate for something cool, and unique, and completely outside the sphere of Imperial influences?"

Because the imperials will just Nick it, like they did with oblits....

[Prot]

Honestly, while any Chaos 40K announcement is welcome, this doesn't do too much for me.

 

My dream is a simply release of 'Votlw' Or whatever you want to call it. A simple 10 man box of new CSM sculpts, with.. (drum roll please) a Chaos Dreadclaw/pod. I would sell my mother for that box set, and buy about 30 of them.

 

Lost and the damned? I remember playing against it a lot during the EoT campaign, and some people did it very well. I already have cultists, and I honestly don't have any desire to build a force of half Chaos marines, and evil Astra. 

 

I know this is conjecture on my part, but on the other hand if you guys love this idea, then I'm all for it.... I would probably cave in and try it.... just as I did daemons... but this isn't really the core of my army here.

[Loesh]

 

 

I know this is conjecture on my part, but on the other hand if you guys love this idea, then I'm all for it.... I would probably cave in and try it.... just as I did daemons... but this isn't really the core of my army here.

 

And this is the attitude I wish more people would carry, when you say "Few things depress me more about the hobby then people..." I feel a person should just stop, and reevaluate what they are about to say. It sounds extremely condescending(And I know this sounds condescending too, but i'm trying to help, honest.) and it draws divides between people just because they have different tastes and hurts the community.

[MaliGn]

Essentially, the reason so much chaos stuff is 'imperial with spikes on' is because of humanity. There was worship of chaotic entities by various names throughout imperial history to the extent That the great crusade was a secular jihad, (hence punishment of word bearers) only because of the heresy was the ecclesiarchy and imperial divinity created.

 

Sure there is an amount of eldar influence etc, but with their civilisation in decline it is humanity in the ascendant and therefore chaotic humanity that gains the most. Follow this logic and while there should be unique chaotic forces, equally every imperial force should have at some point fallen. There is nothing saying that fallen humans should be better the nature of chaos is fickle and often the corruption leads to spawnhood, but neither should we be saying that imperial toys shouldn't be allowed to chaos forces. 2nd ed had this right where imperial wargear could be purchased at a higher rate, not because it just didn't exist, but because it was rare. Thing was no one bothered because there was a) no internet to speak of and b) because then things are overcosted, so why take?

 

Wr should have all kinds of things, and gradually we get closer and closer to having them, as the ideas and theme behind the whole affair get closer to catching up with the staggeringly large world that they have created for themselves.

[Loesh]

Personally I want House Devine, i'm quite happy my 'Imperial Knights with tentacles for arms' thanks.

[Noctus Cornix]

Few things depress me more about the hobby than people wanting "Chaos" versions of Imperial institutions.

 

I'd hope that with all the weird cultists, mutants, Chaos-worshipping Xenos races, Warp technology, unaligned daemons, etc. that have been depicted in the art and fiction, they'd be able to  come up with something more imaginative than Inquisitors… but with spikes on, Assassins… but with spikes on, etc.

 

You want Chaos Assassins? Okay. But let's see what a Chaos Lord would use to assassinate somebody when he can draw on forbidden Dark Mechanicum technology, Warp-tainted aliens, foul mutations, and then possess the whole thing with a daemon. Anything but a Culexus with Faction: Forces of Chaos. Imagine sending the Ragged Knight after the enemy warlord, or his shadow coming alive with a thousand hungry mouths.

 

There must be more to daemonically-infused super-heavy walkers than an Imperial Knight with tentacles for arms. Forget "Chaos Inquisitors" (‽), how about the Cognitae? The Rak'Gol or the saruthi?

 

There's so much more in the background they could build on than "stuff you can already put on the table… but evil".

 

Such is the issue of Chaos. When you try to introduce something new and creative, like the Mauler/Forgefiends and Helldrakes, it is met with disdain and disgust by a large portion of the Chaos Community. I really don't blame GW all that much if they decide to take the safe route. 

[Loesh]

I thought Heldrakes were widely regarded as awesome by the Chaos community, but also initially considered pretty broken by everyone else.

[Noctus Cornix]

I thought Heldrakes were widely regarded as awesome by the Chaos community, but also initially considered pretty broken by everyone else.

Widely regarded as awesome because of its AP3 Template weapon that tears through Space Marines better than a Vindicator, but most people despised the Helldrake's model and to some regard its fluff. 

[Loesh]

 

I thought Heldrakes were widely regarded as awesome by the Chaos community, but also initially considered pretty broken by everyone else.

Widely regarded as awesome because of its AP3 Template weapon that tears through Space Marines better than a Vindicator, but most people despised the Helldrake's model and to some regard its fluff. 

 

 

Most people I know liked the fluff(Found it awesome even, the fact Phil Kelly wrote it probably helped.) but yeah not the model because of the exhaust hole.

[totgeboren]

Such is the issue of Chaos. When you try to introduce something new and creative, like the Mauler/Forgefiends and Helldrakes, it is met with disdain and disgust by a large portion of the Chaos Community. I really don't blame GW all that much if they decide to take the safe route.

I kinda like the Fiends, though I would have preferred if they were a bit more blocky and had rules that matched their size (seriously, same AV and HP as a Helbrute, which is half the size if that even?)

The big problem with them is that all chaos vehicles have had hard edges and flat surfaces. We already had one daemon engine, the Defiler, and the Fiends look nothing like it in style. Sure, that's fine by me if the new style looks better, but then we got the new Helbrute which has the exact same daemonic style, yet is not even a daemon engine? My Possessed consist of DV Chosen and a box of possessed. They mix perfectly, which is a bad thing because possessed are supposed to look different from 'normal' chaos marines and so on. The style is just a mess right now if you ask me, but I wouldn't mind if the rules accurately represented the models at least.

 

For me the problem with Chaos right now is that neither the design, the rules or the background work as a whole. An opponent should be able to tell from looking at the models if a vehicle is a daemon engine or not, or of a model is possessed or not, but they can't.

 

GW really need to decide if the CSM codex is suppose to be about renegades or legionnaires. I mean, why do the Crimson Slaughter use terminators with combi-weapons, reaper autocannons and power weapons? Where did all their Drop Pods go which their own supplement says is their speciality? Why did they exchange all the hurricane bolters to lascannons on their land raiders? Why do their havocs have autocannons but no multimeltas or plasma cannons? What happened to their scouts and land speeders and attack bikes? Those surely cannot be to complex technology, as they are just a bike with a sidecar?

And the other side of the coin is the legions, who lack almost everything except the most basic stuff.

 

I would just like it if GW could hold on to some sort of coherent imagery of what chaos marines are suppose to be. This mix of styles and rules and background leads to armies that don't really follow WYSIWYG even with 100% official models, and the players cannot recreate the armies that are portrayed in the background either, and then they throw in some odd restrictions like the no-mix-of-marks-in-a-unit and a pretty harsh ally chart (no BB IG for example) that makes count-as much harder.

[Shuggnuggath]

I thought Heldrakes were widely regarded as awesome by the Chaos community, but also initially considered pretty broken by everyone else.

Its kinda awesome if all you want to do is burn space marines, not so awesome if you wanted an alternative transport to rhino or a shonky version of a land raider

I suppose if FW is accepted in your gaming group (and you can afford it) then some of the Chaos transport issues are somewhat reduced.

[Excessus]

 

I thought Heldrakes were widely regarded as awesome by the Chaos community, but also initially considered pretty broken by everyone else.

Widely regarded as awesome because of its AP3 Template weapon that tears through Space Marines better than a Vindicator, but most people despised the Helldrake's model and to some regard its fluff. 

 

Well, the problem is when they bring something(lots of things) in that wasen't asked for/needed instead of fixing the old already existing units properly. Chaos lacks an alternative transport, like a dreadclaw, not a mechanical dragon. Unfortunately it's unbalanced yes...but required if you wanted to win tournaments in 6th...

[incinerator950]

Few things depress me more about the hobby than people wanting "Chaos" versions of Imperial institutions.

 

I'd hope that with all the weird cultists, mutants, Chaos-worshipping Xenos races, Warp technology, unaligned daemons, etc. that have been depicted in the art and fiction, they'd be able to come up with something more imaginative than Inquisitors… but with spikes on, Assassins… but with spikes on, etc.

 

You want Chaos Assassins? Okay. But let's see what a Chaos Lord would use to assassinate somebody when he can draw on forbidden Dark Mechanicum technology, Warp-tainted aliens, foul mutations, and then possess the whole thing with a daemon. Anything but a Culexus with Faction: Forces of Chaos. Imagine sending the Ragged Knight after the enemy warlord, or his shadow coming alive with a thousand hungry mouths.

 

There must be more to daemonically-infused super-heavy walkers than an Imperial Knight with tentacles for arms. Forget "Chaos Inquisitors" (‽), how about the Cognitae? The Rak'Gol or the saruthi?

 

There's so much more in the background they could build on than "stuff you can already put on the table… but evil".

Some of the finer things in life are simpler than dripping pools of weak traversing tentacles, and demon engine unicorns commanded by poorly trained grandpas still twirling their mustaches.

[DraneceusRex]

Few things depress me more about the hobby than people wanting "Chaos" versions of Imperial institutions.

 

I'd hope that with all the weird cultists, mutants, Chaos-worshipping Xenos races, Warp technology, unaligned daemons, etc. that have been depicted in the art and fiction, they'd be able to  come up with something more imaginative than Inquisitors… but with spikes on, Assassins… but with spikes on, etc.

 

You want Chaos Assassins? Okay. But let's see what a Chaos Lord would use to assassinate somebody when he can draw on forbidden Dark Mechanicum technology, Warp-tainted aliens, foul mutations, and then possess the whole thing with a daemon. Anything but a Culexus with Faction: Forces of Chaos. Imagine sending the Ragged Knight after the enemy warlord, or his shadow coming alive with a thousand hungry mouths.

 

There must be more to daemonically-infused super-heavy walkers than an Imperial Knight with tentacles for arms. Forget "Chaos Inquisitors" (‽), how about the Cognitae? The Rak'Gol or the saruthi?

 

There's so much more in the background they could build on than "stuff you can already put on the table… but evil".

 

I get your point and I'd love to have new toys too, but I want traitor guard rules so I can effectively ally the models I built back in 3rd ed with my main chaos army. Simple as that. A lot of us already have the models. We just don't want "counts as" to be the only way to use them as or to have to deal with the Come the Apocalypse rules. Let me use my spikey guard and my spikey tanks with official rules right next to my EC.

 

In fact I believe this is the major gripe with how GW has treated Chaos. People in 3rd ed invested a lot of time, money, and energy into their armies, only to have them invalidated by the 4th ed book. I got a huge part of that back with being able to ally with Daemons in 6th ed, but I'd love to have the rules for my cult bikers and termies back right along so many other things.

[incinerator950]

I'd like to actually feel like playing something other than a generic army with dlc content.