Space Wolves Fluff Question: Death of a company?

[Jochteas]

Basically I was wondering simply, what would happen to a company of Space wolves that was decimated by war? Say 120 marines go in and 15 come out or other some such scenario. Would they reform the company from such a small group of survivors? I'm not implying that the unit was lost inauspiciously, sometimes things happen. Sometimes a small ork warband turns out to be the spearhead of a WAAAAAARGH! And after 15 years of fighting you win but hardly alive. That leads to my second question, which is if a company is out adventuring how long before they consider it lost? If say said company was out on the fringes of the galaxy for 25 years with not much of a world would there brothers write them off?

[Leif Bearclaw]

Yes, they would rebuild the company. Pretty much this exact circumstance happens in Battle for the Fang. By the time the rest of the Chapter break the siege Greyloc's company (the 12th, because at this point the companies were apparently still numbered) has been reduced to a dozen or so men (can't remember the actual number). At the end of the book the new Great Wolf specifically states the 12th will be rebuilt. And given the way the GCs are structured, the survivors would form the nucleus of the rebuilt company.

 

As for how long before a Company's declared lost? There's probably no cast iron answer. It would depend on the nature of the deployment, expected regularity of contact with Fenris, and the general optimism and attitude of the senior command at the time.

[muggs]

IIRC in the 3rd and 5th Ed Codices mention Great Companies that leave the Fang for good and essentially crusade until they die out.

 

There was a Warhammer Monthly comic strip that showed such a company helping Valhallans against Nids.

[Dantay VI]

Muggs, you are thinking of "Lone Wolves", which is pretty good (got the graphic novel years back).

 

They would rebuild the company like mentioned above. I do not know if at the time of the Battle of the FAng, you stayed in a pack which shrunk over time, or you could add more pack members to flesh it out. If any Wolf GUard remained, then one would be chosen as Lord, The remainder of the company become Wolg Guard possibly to act as veterans for the raw recruits coming in.I suspect there would be quite a few Wolf Priests sent in by the Great Wolf to oversee the huge amount of Blood Claws..

 

Companies can be lost by voluntarily leaving the Fang, either with the Great Wolf's blessing to go on crusade, or by notification that they are involved in a war that they will not return from. They can also leave without the permission of the Great Wolf and be hunted down as rebels and traitors... It was referenced in the older White Dwarfs, from around when they released the first Emperors Champion (WD235-ish)

 

There is nothing in any fluff to show how lomg a company must be missing before it is declared lost though.

[callmeMrBadger]

As each company has it's own stone on the Great Annulus, and each stone symbol is representing the Wolf Lord's own personal choice. Then as the wolf Lord survives he probably has rights to rebuild, unless his survival came with some dishonourable conduct.

 

If the Lord died but others of his Wolf Guard returned home victorious, then they could elect a new Lord and continue, the survivors changing their Great Company badge to reflect their new Lord and then be given time to build up to numbers / tasked with missions appropriate to their size.

 

I hope that defeated companies know better than to return home in disgrace, and would do what they were tasked with or die trying.

 

An Exception being if there is a key part of intelligence that could not be entrusted to any other means and had to get back to the Great Wolf, a single marine / squad could be assigned the task of returning with the information having bore witness to whatever horror presented, whilst a last stand is made. But this successful delivery of information would be a victory - bought with the lives of the others and would probably mean condition in paragraph two would come in to effect.

 

If any fleet assets remain viable then these would be sent back for cleansing and re-arm / refit - but the wolves I don't think would retreat from battle and would keep going even in the face of stupidity. Dropping back into guerrilla tactics whilst waiting for re-enforcements / one in a million kill the warlord assassination attempt if all else fails. After all  there is honour in giving your life for the all farther.

 

As for declaring a Great Company Lost, and creating a fresh company to fill there place, only for the original to return I don't see this as that unusual. especially with Warp travel so dodgy, a fleet could easily end up 100 years late back if a storm hit. Lysander and the imperial Fists had experience of this, but as Companies in Codex forces use the same Chapter Numbers, having two 3rd Companies for example, one being new and barely battle tested the rediscovered original being back, I'd assume the original would continue.

 

Great Companies in the Wolves,  they don't have this history of tracing company historys back millennia, as each is new with a New wolf Lord, maybe so of the veterans remembering the prvious lord, so maybe a couple of "generations" at best.

[Jochteas]

These are all great answers and I appreciate the feed back very much. One question that arises as I read this through. Say a Wolf Lord dies in the field, what then? By that I mean like assuming enough Marines make it (let say 10+), do they elect a new Lord on the spot? Would they seek vengeance (I mean they kind of absolutely have to, I haven't read the begging of a new Wolf Lord Story that didn't begin with such ) and then elect a new leader? Or would they have like a situation where maybe a WG steps up to be a WGBL just until the company seeks vengeance then let's them vote, so for a while they wouldn't actually have a lord.

[Dantay VI]

Blackmanes saga says that after Berek Thunderfist the Wolf Lord was slain... It was Ragnar that led the wolves to take vengeance on their lords slayers. It was only after that event, that the company elected a Wolf Lord and they chose Ragnar.

 

In IA11, the illustrated Space Wolves character is a Wolf Guard who after Bran has laid out the plan of battle, Bran leaves to command his company when battle is joined... As Bran has his own issues to contend with :) It would hint that he is the Wolf Lord-elect of Redmaws company...

 

Also you find that in the 6th Space Wolf book you have a guy leading the Space Wolves who didnt get a choice i the matter.

 

I would suspect though that each company has a Beta wolf, who steps in when the Alpha is down, until such time as the pack can elect a new Alpha...

 

The closest we came to canon on this is in the older codex, where it states that when the old Lord has died the Wolf Guard meet and from their ranks they themselves elect a new Wolf Lord who can then use heraldry of his choosing as the great company's symbol. Where and when would be up to the Wolf Guard to decide... And ultimately yourself as you are the defacto Wolf Lord of the great compny you envision making.

[Jochteas]

Well this company I was thinking about, I envisioned to be in the midst of such a crisis. Kinda with the flare with a group of guys looking for redemption, but In terms of things I enjoy, the fluff is really high on the list so I want to be able to craft a story as true to the narrative as possible.

[Dantay VI]

So, in your fluff, it is a great company which is pretty much destroyed and the Wolf Lord is dead... The remainder of the Company (mainly Wolf Guard) feel that the loss of their Lord was down to their failure of some kind and so they seek to lead the remainder of the great company to enact vengeance on a foe of some kind or to die on a crusade?

 

Sounds like an epic back story to making a rocking Space Wolves Kill-team! A group of hardened veterans with nothing to lose, infiltrating an enemy base to slaughter the commander who brought their Lord low :)

[Jochteas]

Ha thanks! This might make it sound less awesome, but it was kind of born out of my desire to mix things up. Originally I got into Warhammer 40k on esthetics alone, and I thought space wolves just looked to cool (Subsequently everything I've ever read about them has proven that true). But the other company I really really liked was the black Templars, and after reading there stuff I still really like them. But I don't want two armies right now, and Space Wolves is still my first love (after all TWC was the dealbreaker between the two). So I thought of maybe setting up a story where the company falls into a trap gets put into a real bad situation, and it turns into a nightmare scenario that they try to work there way out of, and when it looks like they might all go to join the All Father the Templars show up and save the company from destruction (In my scenario right now the 'final stand' they made was in an old Templar's chapter building that had been abandoned hundreds of years ago but made for a great base.) The remaining company then want to a) seek vengeance for the destruction of there chapter, and b) repay the debt they feel they owe the Black Templars, and to do both they join up on the Templar's crusade, and ass kicking ensues, not only because its awesome but because they cannot return home until this shame has been wiped clean and this debt repaid. Like I said I'm trying to blend two flavors I really like in a way that stays true to the setting I've become hooked on, to create a unique experience with out falling into the ultramarysuemarine groove.

[callmeMrBadger]

If that is the case your after then it's not really a Great Company rebuilding itself, I thought that they had returned to Fenris and planned to rebuild and re-stock, the story you paint seems more a Planet is in distress, the Wolves are dispatched to deal with the threat along with the Black Templars. Wolves being wolves don't really wait for backup, frankly we've got history in biting of more than others think we can chew, and get battered by a very good trap, obviously some Wyrd masking it as the Wolves could never be trapped like this without the aid of the witches.

 

The Trap fails, and the Black Templars finally get of their praying knees and start shooting stuff, they meet up with the survivors from the ambush / trap, and the Wolves now have a much reduced number, but still a mission to accomplish and revenge for their fallen pack mates.

 

It's not they can't return home, it's they won't as they have work left to be done. Both the original mission and payback for the cheap trap that failed to kill them all. Or you could just make it that the Wolves transports got destroyed in the ambush, so they got swept up with the Templars and are tagging along until they can get lift home.

 

In the latest codex I think it describes how a Wolf Guard Battle leader is chosen before each battle so if the Lord falls the Amy still has a head. it doesn't say the the WGBL is the natural heir, as the Wolf Guard could contain a whole manner of experts in Long, medium and close combat, Space Hulk storming, void actions. to the WGBL of the day would be the dude the Lord feels most suitable to the battle scenario.

[Dantay VI]

It may not cover the rebuilding of the Great Company, but it does beg the question, how and when the remnants elect a new Wolf Lord and would the new Lord change thee insignia of the Company, especially if they were only a remnant.

 

It is also feasible that should he wish to  make a fully fledged Wolf army, that he could progress their saga that after completing their mighty vow of vengeance they return to the Fang to honour their dead and to petition the Great Wolf to allow the rebuilding of their Great Company.

 

And if they are a remnant would The Great Wolf declare them lost and replace them with a newly founded company?

 

It could be an offshoot of the Armageddon wars where The wolves hunted orks as the Templar fleet chased them out of the system and linked up with the templars in their crusade. Ultimately the reasoning and the fluff with which to build a great company is for each of us to create :)

[Jochteas]

See that's why I'm asking questions now, getting a feel for the scenario. Yes the story I have pictures in my head is sort of a WIP for the unit, but id like to think of the 'well what after' say it takes 15-30 years and they return a hollow shell of there former company but there honor and glory secure, what then? I know this sounds weird but I'm also mulling it over for my self and future projects. Like making my TWC/WGBL/IP that are part of the company? No problem. But if I start kitting out GH units is that because the company (in my fluff) where rebuilt? I know that sounds nit picky, but I could just do like a Ragnar group of GH's if I couldn't justify 4-6 packs of Grey Hunters being alive and kicking (sorta speak). So I'm trying to get a handle on all aspects of the time line. Would they be welcomed back if they completed the crusade? Would they be praised or punished? Would they be rebuilt? If 125 dudes leave and 10 dudes come back and one says he is a wolf lord, do they all just accept that?

[Dantay VI]

Purely from my own perspective and leaning towards the Space Wolves series, if a pack were to come back from the dead so to speak... They would spend a great dea; of time with the Priests to ensure they are who they say they are and also to check them for tainat and corruption.

 

If the Templars came to the Aett and vouched for the remaining wolves then so muc h the better for them.

 

If they are with the Templars, I believe that they would have been in communication with the Chapter, as the Templars have astropaths etc with which to send maeesages. Unless they are becalmed in the warp, trapped in the eye of terror or isolated from the imperium at large by a warp storm making communication all but impossible.

 

I doubt they would be punished for going on crusade, unless the Great Wolf had forbidden it, it would be likely that he would commend them for keeping their honour and showing initiative. As towhether they would be allowed to rebuild their own company? It would be don to the Great Wolf under advisement of his priests.... Those who interrogated the returning wolves and who would judge them...

 

Depending on what you want to do, you could have a pack of Grey hunters, which could them be dispersed as future Wolf Guard pack leaders in the rebuild, your Blood Claws become a veteran pack of Grey HUnters as they have matured on crusade, and then your surviving wolf guard can ake on a number of roles. The elders become Long Fangs, the beta wolf, feeling shame for the fall of his lord, seeks redemption as a lone wolf, another guides the remainder and is elevated to the rank of Wolf Priest, 1 or 2 become scouts, touched by Lokyar after the death of their comrades, they seek solitude from the pack, but instead of seekingglorious death... They choose to protect their company mates by becoming scouts, the eyes and ears of the company the remaining few elect a military leader (Jarl) and become his huscarl retinue. A hoary old Iron Priest too stubborn to die, keeps the few mechanical beasts in the company going..

 

So a small army from little more than a battleforce to get you going?

[Jochteas]

That's probably what I'm going to do, I like that. My last question was what about a mistake? Let say they think a company has died and like many years later it turns out to be around? Would it become like a 14th company? Folded into another maybe? Perhaps be a special case and not be a company at all?

[Dantay VI]

The Space Wolves have other detachments besides the 12 Great Companies.

 

For example the Wolf Blades. A unit based on Terra charged with the protection of the Navigators from House Belisarius (again Ragnar Blackmane series of Space Wolves novels books 4-6) It is where they send the mis-fits of the Chapter to be of some use.

 

House Belisarius has had an alliance with the Wolves since the Great Crusade and supply the Navigators for most if not all the star ships used by the Aett. In return for this the Wolves have a detachment (not in the codex) dedicated to the protection of House Belisarius.

 

Another option would be that the returning Wolves may be allowed to go on crusade with the Templars if there was some unfinished business, maybe taking a fledgling force under the supervision ofa Wolf & Rune Priest. If they are worthy they can create a new company, if not they die or get folded into an existing company, likely the Great Wolves own.