Re-rolling 1s To Hit and Blast Weapons

[L30n1d4s]

Now, I know that if a rule allows you to re-roll To Hit (i.e. from something like Prescience, Twin-Linked weapons, etc.), when applied to a weapon with the Small Blast or Large Blast rules, this means you can re-roll the scatter dice, but must accept the second result.

 

What I am still unclear on is what happens when you have a rule that enables you to re-roll all 1s To Hit (say, from Preferred Enemy).... when applied to blast weapons, does this let them re-roll the scatter dice, or is that only when you a "full re-roll to Hit", vice the more limited "re-roll 1st to Hit" ?

 

Thanks for any clarification on this.

[Brother Dallo]

I've always played that reroll all 1s to hit doesn't apply to blast weapons, since you can't roll a 1 to hit.

[Toldavf]

Blast weapons don't make a to hit role they have their own rules.

[Seahawk]

It matters for plasma cannons, and yes preferred enemy allows you to reroll the gets hot.

[Fibonacci]

I've always played that reroll all 1s to hit doesn't apply to blast weapons, since you can't roll a 1 to hit.

Correct.  There is no way to roll 1 on two dice so Preferred Enemy will not let you re-roll for scatter.

 

It matters for plasma cannons, and yes preferred enemy allows you to reroll the gets hot.

This is a function of the Gets Hot roll that is preformed before rolling for scatter.  Something like a frag missile will not have this option. Still, plasma canon or frag missile it does not matter; neither will be able to re-roll the scatter dice if all they have is Perferred Enemy.

[Captain Coolpants]

The plasma thing is correct, because for plasma guns and pistols, a to-hit roll of a 1 is a gets hot, but for plasma cannons, you have to roll gets hot as a separate roll as they don't roll to hit. They auto hit after scatter.

[henrythesecond]

 

 

 

I've always played that reroll all 1s to hit doesn't apply to blast weapons, since you can't roll a 1 to hit.

 

Correct.  There is no way to roll 1 on two dice so Preferred Enemy will not let you re-roll for scatter.

Hmmm, not so sure about that. Do any 're-roll To Hit rolls of 1' type rules specify that you're totalling the two d6? Can it not be interpreted to mean if any of your scatter-distance d6 are a 1, those specific dice may be re-rolled?

 

Only useful situationally, as you're not re-rolling the actual Scatter Die, but as you've already thrown the To Hit roll, you'll know the direction it will scatter and, for various reasons, you may wish to alter the distance scattered by re-rolling any 1's on the distance dice.

 

Just a thought.

[Fibonacci]

Let me rephrase that since I was being an ass anyway.

Blast weapons do not roll to hit.  Blast weapons will never have a To Hit roll of 1 since they do not roll to hit.  They roll to scatter.  Scatter and To Hit are completely different things.  There will never be a "To Hit roll of 1" required by Preferred Enemy for blast weapons because there are no To Hit rolls made.

[Rapture747]

People are misleading you because they did not actually read the rules before answering. The information that you question depends on is:

 

Preferred Enemy:

A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule re-rolls failed To Hit and To Wound Rolls of 1 if attacking its Preferred Enemy.

 

Blast Weapons and Re-rolls:

If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit and chooses to do so after firing a blast weapon, the player must re-roll both the scatter dice and the 2D6.

 

Does the ability to re-roll 1s count as an ability to re-roll To Hit rolls? Obviously it does (some people claim that it doesn't because you can't re-roll all of the To Hit rolls that miss, but you will notice that the rule above says absolutely nothing about misses and that no ability in the game lets you re-roll successful To Hit rolls). But, What does it mean by 'chooses to do so?' Is the rule meant to never function? It just doesn't make sense.

 

I know that you did not ask specifically about Preferred Enemy, but it is usually a focus of this discussion (which has occurred many, many times). The real answer to your question is that there is no answer. As you can see from the language above, the rules regarding blast weapons and re-rolls are so vague and the permission for such a re-roll is so elusive that discussing it borders on a complete waste of time. I have seen threads drag on for 15 pages where no side was able to completely, or even close to it, prove their argument.

 

This is a classic GW blunder. Let it go. Don't waste your energy on the RaW. In this case, the RaW answer does not exist.

[casb1965]

People are misleading you because they did not actually read the rules before answering. The information that you question depends on is:

 

Preferred Enemy:

A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule re-rolls failed To Hit and To Wound Rolls of 1 if attacking its Preferred Enemy.

 

Blast Weapons and Re-rolls:

If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit and chooses to do so after firing a blast weapon, the player must re-roll both the scatter dice and the 2D6.

 

Does the ability to re-roll 1s count as an ability to re-roll To Hit rolls? Obviously it does (some people claim that it doesn't because you can't re-roll all of the To Hit rolls that miss, but you will notice that the rule above says absolutely nothing about misses and that no ability in the game lets you re-roll successful To Hit rolls). But, What does it mean by 'chooses to do so?' Is the rule meant to never function? It just doesn't make sense.

 

I know that you did not ask specifically about Preferred Enemy, but it is usually a focus of this discussion (which has occurred many, many times). The real answer to your question is that there is no answer. As you can see from the language above, the rules regarding blast weapons and re-rolls are so vague and the permission for such a re-roll is so elusive that discussing it borders on a complete waste of time. I have seen threads drag on for 15 pages where no side was able to completely, or even close to it, prove their argument.

 

This is a classic GW blunder. Let it go. Don't waste your energy on the RaW. In this case, the RaW answer does not exist.

 

I don't see where the confusion on the Blast weapon re-roll comes from. The rule simply allows you the choice as to whether you want to re-roll or not based on the initial scatter outcome. Why would you choose to reroll a direct hit or a dice roll that moves the hit to a more advangtageous position?

[Fibonacci]

 Does the ability to re-roll 1s count as an ability to re-roll To Hit rolls? Obviously it does

Obviously it does not.  There are conditions you are conviently ignoring in order to force the two to balance.

[Raeven]

Yep. Re-roll 1 is designed specifically to exclude rerolling scatter dice.

 

A regular reroll covers all types of rerolls.

[Rapture747]

 

 Does the ability to re-roll 1s count as an ability to re-roll To Hit rolls? Obviously it does

Obviously it does not.  There are conditions you are conviently ignoring in order to force the two to balance.

 

What conditions block it the ability to re-roll To Hit rolls of 1s from being considered an ability to re-roll To Hit rolls? Under what conditions can you re-roll the scatter dice?

 

We can do this if you want - but it always ends in the same place. There is no right answer.

[Quozzo]

Yep. Re-roll 1 is designed specifically to exclude rerolling scatter dice.

 

A regular reroll covers all types of rerolls.

You have a reference for that? Reroll scatter dice is a mechanic that allows you to reroll ~1/3 of your misses.

 

I would say reroll all rolls of one on the distance, including scatter die. But as it's been pointed out, there is no sure answer.

[Mr. Shine]

There is arguable precedent that re-rolling 1s to hit does not allow for re-rolling blast scatter. In the Iyanden supplement it is noted (though written as a commentary rather than strictly stated as a rule) that as a Hemlock does not roll to hit in a conventional manner it does not benefit from Spirit Mark (which allows units to re-roll 1s to hit).

 

I'm not strongly convinced either way, however.

[Fibonacci]

 

What conditions block it the ability to re-roll To Hit rolls of 1s from being considered an ability to re-roll To Hit rolls?

 

Does rolling a 2 give the weapon the ability to re-roll To Hit?  No, of course not.

Does rolling a 2 make the weapon lose the ability to re-roll To Hit? 

I say no because by default, it does not have that ability until a To Hit roll of 1 is made.  The rule is word in such a way as to alow the weapon to gain the re-roll when a 1 is rolled; not to have the re-roll unless a 2+ is rolled. So the pre-existing condition (rolling a 1) must be met before the weapon actually has the ability.

 

It does not have ability to re-roll To Hit.  It has the ability to gain that ability, though.  

[Kristoff]

It still applies. The rule in Blasts for Scatter Rerolls doesn't care if it is just a conditional reroll, it just cares if it has the ability. Rolling a Successful To-Hit prevents many a reroll rule, would this than disqualify those as well? I don't think so.

[Fibonacci]

It still applies. The rule in Blasts for Scatter Rerolls doesn't care if it is just a conditional reroll, i

It does not care if it is conditional, only if you have the ability.  Which it does not have with perferred enemy UNTIL a To Hit roll of 1 is made.

 

It does not have the ability to re-roll.  It has the ability to gain the ability to re-roll. It's ability to re-roll foes not exist until a To Hit roll of 1 is made.

[tgjensen]

Fibonacci is right, IMO. The ability to re-roll from Preferred Enemy is conditional on having rolled a 1 to hit. Since you never roll a 1 to hit for blasts, you never have the ability to re-roll.

[Kristoff]

 

It still applies. The rule in Blasts for Scatter Rerolls doesn't care if it is just a conditional reroll, it does not care if it is conditional, only if you have the ability.

 

 

Which it does not have with perferred enemy UNTIL a To Hit roll of 1 is made.

 

It does not have the ability to re-roll.  It has the ability to gain the ability to re-roll. It's ability to re-roll foes not exist until a To Hit roll of 1 is made.

 

So, Twin-linked cannot reroll Blast Scatter, either, by that logic. Since you cannot reroll unless you roll a miss on To-Hit. Since the To Hit roll isn't made, a failure doesn't happen, so you cannot reroll the Blast, even if it is Twin-Linked.

 

Yet, this is not how it is applied.

[tgjensen]

The Twin-linked special rule specifically states how it works with blast weapons.

[Raeven]

 

 

It still applies. The rule in Blasts for Scatter Rerolls doesn't care if it is just a conditional reroll, it does not care if it is conditional, only if you have the ability.

 

 

Which it does not have with perferred enemy UNTIL a To Hit roll of 1 is made.

 

It does not have the ability to re-roll.  It has the ability to gain the ability to re-roll. It's ability to re-roll foes not exist until a To Hit roll of 1 is made.

 

So, Twin-linked cannot reroll Blast Scatter, either, by that logic. Since you cannot reroll unless you roll a miss on To-Hit. Since the To Hit roll isn't made, a failure doesn't happen, so you cannot reroll the Blast, even if it is Twin-Linked.

 

Yet, this is not how it is applied.

 

 

Like tgjensen states, twin linked specifically allows a reroll of blast weapons.

 

With re-rolls of 1, you cannot reroll until you have rolled a one.  Rolling a 1 is the condition.

[Kristoff]

The Twin-linked special rule specifically states how it works with blast weapons.

And yet it is still a conditional reroll like Preferred Enemy.

 

The Blast reroll rule is not dependant on the reroll being 100% available all the time, but just have ability.

 

The ability IS available with Master-crafted, Twin-Linked, Preferred Enemy and Spirit-Marked, so it IS available for Blasts.

[tgjensen]

 

And yet it is still a conditional reroll like Preferred Enemy.

 

 

Yes; but the condition is that you do not roll a Hit on the scatter dice. Unlike the case for Preferred Enemy, that is a condition that can actually be met.

[Kristoff]

 

 

And yet it is still a conditional reroll like Preferred Enemy.

 

 

Yes; but the condition is that you do not roll a Hit on the scatter dice. Unlike the case for Preferred Enemy, that is a condition that can actually be met.

Where does it say in the Blast rerolls that the same conditions have to be met as To-Hit in order to qualify?