Re-rolling 1s To Hit and Blast Weapons

[dosiere]

There are only two options available to us, if you are trying to apply the blast rules consistently. Every other option requires the players to make up rules that don't exist in the rulebook. Etiher:

1) Only Twin-Linked counts, and that only because the twin-linked rule specifically says so. Why? To use the blast re-roll rule, a unit would have to have the ability to re-roll their to-hit dice.... all of them, failed AND successful. If you somehow do have a situation where a unit has the ability to re-roll everything, that would count, but I can't think of a situation.

2) Any unit with the ability to re-roll their to-hit dice, however limited - can re-roll the scatter dice. This is my read of it, and here is why:


The ability to re-roll to-hit rolls as described under the blast and gets hot rules should apply to any unit that well... has the ability to re-roll to-hit dice. What people want to do is change the wording of the blast rule to say "all failed to-hit rolls" which is wrong, wrong, wrong. It doesn't say that. The blast rule as written inlcudes any to-hit re-roll, not just units that re-roll all failed rolls. For a description/definition of what a re-roll is, look to page 11 of your rulebook. You will notice there is no mention of a re-roll only being a re-roll if it includes all failed rolls.

This includes master-crafted, preferred enemy, twin-linked, BS6+, ultramarine tactical doctrine, etc... All of these are to-hit re-rolls. A unit that has the ability to re-roll failed to-hit rolls of 1 only still has the ability to re-roll their to-hit rolls, just potentially not all failed ones. As far as the blast rule and re-rolls are concerned, it counts.

As for the arguments about needing to roll a 1 or some such on the scatter dice, that is also wrong. A scatter roll is not a to-hit roll, and you are trying to apply the rules concerning to-hit rolls to scatter dice rules that do not exist in the rulebook. There is no such thing as a "failed" scatter roll, just because you don't roll a hit on the scatter dice is not the same thing as rolling a miss on your to-hit dice. Along the same vein, rolling a 2,3,4,5 etc... on the scatter dice is not the same thing as rolling those numbers on a to-hit roll.

Finally, for those that think the blast rule only counts for units that can re-roll all failed to-hit rolls (let's forget that to even get to this conclusion you have to change the wording of the blast rule in the first place), how do you think the following situations should be handled?

1) A BS 5 model with a a special rule that allows him to re-roll to-hit rolls of 1?

2) BS 6+ models?
 

 

What conditions block it the ability to re-roll To Hit rolls of 1s from being considered an ability to re-roll To Hit rolls?

Does rolling a 2 give the weapon the ability to re-roll To Hit? No, of course not.
Does rolling a 2 make the weapon lose the ability to re-roll To Hit?
I say no because by default, it does not have that ability until a To Hit roll of 1 is made. The rule is word in such a way as to alow the weapon to gain the re-roll when a 1 is rolled; not to have the re-roll unless a 2+ is rolled. So the pre-existing condition (rolling a 1) must be met before the weapon actually has the ability.

It does not have ability to re-roll To Hit. It has the ability to gain that ability, though.

 

 

So a unit only has an ability to do something if that abliilty is being used? This is some rather strange english. I have the ablitiy to speak - does that mean that if i am not currently speaking I don't have the ability to do so?
 

I've always played that reroll all 1s to hit doesn't apply to blast weapons, since you can't roll a 1 to hit.

 

You can't, since you don't roll to-hit for scatter in the first place. For that matter, you can't roll a 2, a 3, a 4, etc...

 

Let me rephrase that since I was being an ass anyway.
Blast weapons do not roll to hit. Blast weapons will never have a To Hit roll of 1 since they do not roll to hit. They roll to scatter. Scatter and To Hit are completely different things. There will never be a "To Hit roll of 1" required by Preferred Enemy for blast weapons because there are no To Hit rolls made.

 

There will never be a to-hit, at all, of 1 or any other number. The specific number needed to re-roll a to-hit roll doesn't matter when rolling for scatter.

 

Yep. Re-roll 1 is designed specifically to exclude rerolling scatter dice.

A regular reroll covers all types of rerolls.

 

What is a "regular" re-roll? Where is this specific rule you are referring to?

 

 

It still applies. The rule in Blasts for Scatter Rerolls doesn't care if it is just a conditional reroll, i

It does not care if it is conditional, only if you have the ability. Which it does not have with perferred enemy UNTIL a To Hit roll of 1 is made.

It does not have the ability to re-roll. It has the ability to gain the ability to re-roll. It's ability to re-roll foes not exist until a To Hit roll of 1 is made.

 

 

If this were true, then no unit except twin-linked would ever re-roll scatter since no to-hit rolls are ever made. A unit that was under the effects of the Divination primaris power Precsience for example would not get to re-roll scatter dice. Is that your position?

[Rapture747]

 

Yep. Re-roll 1 is designed specifically to exclude rerolling scatter dice.

 

A regular reroll covers all types of rerolls.

What is a "regular" re-roll? Where is this specific rule you are referring to?

People do not refer to rules to argue this point - that is why arguments about it still exist. If everyone had to support their claim by quoting the actual language of the rules, then there would be almost no posts in this thread (or the 5 or so 10+ page threads that already exist on this topic).