Kol Saresk Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Okay, if we leave aside the things in Pariah, we still have Eisenhorn summoning a daemonhost, learning from a daemonhost, learning from the disembodied mind of a traitor who he would also order to be given a mechanical body and he would read and use the spells from a Chaos tome that he took from another rogue Inquisitor. He is using Chaos. He is partnering with Chaos. He has sacrificed partners so he can get aid from a daemon. Heck, his staff is made from the core of a warp-tainted entity. He is willfully trafficking with the powers of Chaos. That is Chaos corruption. Chaos corruption is when you willfully choose to use Chaos. Sure, sometimes the person is ignorant of what they are doing. But they say yes all the same. Eisenhorn is not. He is knowing. Now let's look at say, Ravenor. Ravenor has a retinue member who is possessed by a daemon. Ravenor doesn't know. Ravenor doesn't ask his partner to do anything out of the ordinary that would constitute having to use daemonic powers. Ravenor doesn't use forbidden, Chaos-influenced knowledge. When Ravenor finds out his protoge is a daemonhost, he does what he can to kill it. Which is leaving it to die in an orbital bombardment IIRC. Alaric. Does not use Chaos knowledge. Does willingly partner with Chaos-influenced individuals, but only to influence them to kill each other. Pretty much agrees that was a risky move and while it defiles his purity of soul in that he no longer believes he is pure enough to be a true Grey Knight, it is the only time he even comes close to trafficking with the powers of Chaos and has repented to never do it again. We have Cyrion. Hates Chaos. Never offers anything to them. Doesn't even mention their names, if he even knows them. But he is mutated by them. But that isn't what has tainted him. What has tainted him is that he revels in the mutation. He makes good use of it. It serves him well and he enjoys it. But as far as we know, he thinks the power is something he had all the time. Only Talos knows otherwise. Even takes advantage of Uzas' mental instability to use his own battle-brother as a scapegoat. Do you see the differences? Ravenor and Alaric have associated with the powers of Chaos. One unknowingly, one knowingly. Both have since repented and rectified that standing. They are not corrupted. Tainted, maybe. Corrupted, no. Cyrion and Eisenhorn both associate with the power of Chaos. One unknowingly, one knowingly. Neither is repentant. Both use this power to their own ends and are more than welcome to pay the cost. They are tainted. They are corrupted. I too have a very strict definition of Chaos corruption. It's called willingly using it and not caring at what cost. Even once you find out what it is you are doing if you didn't know before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricPaladin Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Okay, if we leave aside the things in Pariah, we still have Eisenhorn summoning a daemonhost, learning from a daemonhost, learning from the disembodied mind of a traitor who he would also order to be given a mechanical body and he would read and use the spells from a Chaos tome that he took from another rogue Inquisitor. He is using Chaos. He is partnering with Chaos. He has sacrificed partners so he can get aid from a daemon. Heck, his staff is made from the core of a warp-tainted entity. He is willfully trafficking with the powers of Chaos. That is Chaos corruption. Chaos corruption is when you willfully choose to use Chaos. Sure, sometimes the person is ignorant of what they are doing. But they say yes all the same. Eisenhorn is not. He is knowing. Now let's look at say, Ravenor. Ravenor has a retinue member who is possessed by a daemon. Ravenor doesn't know. Ravenor doesn't ask his partner to do anything out of the ordinary that would constitute having to use daemonic powers. Ravenor doesn't use forbidden, Chaos-influenced knowledge. When Ravenor finds out his protoge is a daemonhost, he does what he can to kill it. Which is leaving it to die in an orbital bombardment IIRC. Alaric. Does not use Chaos knowledge. Does willingly partner with Chaos-influenced individuals, but only to influence them to kill each other. Pretty much agrees that was a risky move and while it defiles his purity of soul in that he no longer believes he is pure enough to be a true Grey Knight, it is the only time he even comes close to trafficking with the powers of Chaos and has repented to never do it again. We have Cyrion. Hates Chaos. Never offers anything to them. Doesn't even mention their names, if he even knows them. But he is mutated by them. But that isn't what has tainted him. What has tainted him is that he revels in the mutation. He makes good use of it. It serves him well and he enjoys it. But as far as we know, he thinks the power is something he had all the time. Only Talos knows otherwise. Even takes advantage of Uzas' mental instability to use his own battle-brother as a scapegoat. Do you see the differences? Ravenor and Alaric have associated with the powers of Chaos. One unknowingly, one knowingly. Both have since repented and rectified that standing. They are not corrupted. Tainted, maybe. Corrupted, no. Cyrion and Eisenhorn both associate with the power of Chaos. One unknowingly, one knowingly. Neither is repentant. Both use this power to their own ends and are more than welcome to pay the cost. They are tainted. They are corrupted. I too have a very strict definition of Chaos corruption. It's called willingly using it and not caring at what cost. Even once you find out what it is you are doing if you didn't know before. And this is why you would be a Puritan and I'd be a Radical... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylerw Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 That is extremely debatable considering the company he keeps and the tools he uses. He's not a mutant. He's not a daemon prince. He's not possessed or insane. Whether you agree with his actions or not, he still seems to be the one making the choices, not a daemonic master. Whether he's wise is up for debate. Whether he's corrupt, in the sense of abusing his power, is also up for debate. However, I think it's pretty clear that in the sense that Chaos does things to a person, turning him into a monstrous and enslaved parody of himself, Eisenhorn is not corrupted by Chaos. If he's allowing himself to be a tool of Chaos, I'm not sure he's any less corrupted than someone like Ahriman. How corrupted either of them are is debatable though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraytirous Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 And I'd argue that Alaric was as well, what with the Mark of Khorne on his chest, fighting like a berserker to take down his nemesis at the finale, and his "I am no longer a Grey Knight" speech to the radical inquisitor. What if this is the secret? That the MOMENT a Grey Knight becomes corrupted, he is no longer a Grey Knight. None of them have fallen because if they've fallen than they are not Grey Knights. The act of falling itself disenfranchises a Grey Knight from his Chapter.We have fallen Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Imperial Fists (and many more, of course!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 That would be interpretive, not actual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Raven Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Grey Knightses is never fallen to Kaos. If we win we win, if we fall we is not Grey Knightses anymore so it don't count. If we bathes in battle chick blood it don't count neither, because we still worship the Emprah, see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 That is extremely debatable considering the company he keeps and the tools he uses. He's not a mutant. He's not a daemon prince. He's not possessed or insane. Whether you agree with his actions or not, he still seems to be the one making the choices, not a daemonic master. Whether he's wise is up for debate. Whether he's corrupt, in the sense of abusing his power, is also up for debate. However, I think it's pretty clear that in the sense that Chaos does things to a person, turning him into a monstrous and enslaved parody of himself, Eisenhorn is not corrupted by Chaos. Is he not a Psyker? HE IS A MUTANT, THE MOST DANGEROUS KIND. INSIDIOUS IS THE ENEMY THAT APPEARS NORMAL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spazmonkey Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 What about the Space wolves. They either resist or turn Wulfen. Example the 13th have been fighting in the warp for thousands of years and not turned to chaos or been corrupted. Those that turn Wulfen still fight on for the space wolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricPaladin Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 That is extremely debatable considering the company he keeps and the tools he uses. He's not a mutant. He's not a daemon prince. He's not possessed or insane. Whether you agree with his actions or not, he still seems to be the one making the choices, not a daemonic master. Whether he's wise is up for debate. Whether he's corrupt, in the sense of abusing his power, is also up for debate. However, I think it's pretty clear that in the sense that Chaos does things to a person, turning him into a monstrous and enslaved parody of himself, Eisenhorn is not corrupted by Chaos. Is he not a Psyker? HE IS A MUTANT, THE MOST DANGEROUS KIND. INSIDIOUS IS THE ENEMY THAT APPEARS NORMAL! Black Templar player, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Semantics. Corruption is just a red herring. Everyone is already touched by the Warp. Conjunction is inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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