Gentlemanloser Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 I'm not satisfied with the answer above. Does the BA FnP rule not spread to an attached IC becuase; 1: The rule doesn't specify it spreads to an attached IC or 2: The attached IC isn't Faction: Blood Angels You can't say that FnP doesn't effect an UM IC becuase it doesn't spread to ICs, then say it would effect a BA IC becuase they are a BA. (Really, the whole distinction of 'unit' is muddied. And nothing really explains why/how a Faction can be supressed/changed/ignored) I honestly don't think the answers are as clear cut as they've been presented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I'm not satisfied with the answer above. Does the BA FnP rule not spread to an attached IC becuase; 1: The rule doesn't specify it spreads to an attached IC or 2: The attached IC isn't Faction: Blood Angels In the isolated incident of a Sanguinary Priest's buff, it is this as the IC - attached or within 6" - it not a BA unit. You can't say that FnP doesn't effect an UM IC becuase it doesn't spread to ICs, then say it would effect a BA IC becuase they are a BA. I never said that. In this instance was answering a question about a BA specific rule (which for the purpose of this argument could be anything) not FnP (which for the record, if given by wargear that a Priest carries). Regardless, if said special rule was allowed to spread to eligible attached ICs then it would. In this isolated case, a BA specific would spread to a BA IC by default, but an UM IC as it's not eligible. (Really, the whole distinction of 'unit' is muddied. And nothing really explains why/how a Faction can be supressed/changed/ignored) Honestly and with respect, I feel you are interpretting this incorrectly. Remember, a "unit" is a basic rule which like many, is subsequently bent and broken by advanced and codex rules. I honestly don't think the answers are as clear cut as they've been presented. Anyway, if someone else wants to chime in here feel free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 One last question with regards to Blood Angels FnP. If you have a Blood Angel IC attached to an Ultramarine Tac Squad in range of a Sanguinary Priest, would the BA IC gain FnP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Yes and before you ask, no the Ultramarines would not benefit as they are not Blood Angels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 Wasn't going to ask that. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 I would like to go back to something like Saga of Majesty though. A Special Rule that effects a Unit, not individual members of a unit. A Space Wolf Rune Priest has joined a Blood Angel Tac squad. Saga of Majesty effects Units with the Space Wolf Faction. Would you say that the Rune Priest still Qualifies for this, and therefore the Blood Angel Unit still qualifies, or would the Rune Priest not counts as Faction: Space Wolf any more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Casman Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I would like to go back to something like Saga of Majesty though. A Special Rule that effects a Unit, not individual members of a unit. A Space Wolf Rune Priest has joined a Blood Angel Tac squad. Saga of Majesty effects Units with the Space Wolf Faction. Would you say that the Rune Priest still Qualifies for this, and therefore the Blood Angel Unit still qualifies, or would the Rune Priest not counts as Faction: Space Wolf any more? I won't speak for Jolemai, but I will say this: the Rune Priest will benefit from the Saga, by virtue of being a SW IC and thus a SW Unit. The attached Blood Angels will not benefit because they're not a SW Unit. Any special rules granted by the Saga to the Rune Priest will not be conferred to the Blood Angels. That's how I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 It's a rule that effects an entire Unit. If it doesn't effect the Blood Angels in the unit, the attached Space Wolf can't use it. Yet the Space Wolf is still a 'unit', and still of Faction: Space Wolves. Should be able to benefit from the Saga of Majesty. And if he benefits, then the unit he is attached to benefits. The Saga of Majesty doesn't say "units made of only Space Wolves" or something similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Casman Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 It's a rule that effects an entire Unit. If it doesn't effect the Blood Angels in the unit, the attached Space Wolf can't use it. [...] Why not? The independent character rules clearly lay out that ICs can have different special rules and ongoing effects from the unit they're attached to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 Please forgive me if I'm wrong, not to solid on the new Wolf changes, but doesn't Saga of Majesty allow a reroll to Moral (Leadership?) checks? If a Space Wolf unit is within 12", they get a reroll. So you have a combined unit of SW IC and BA Tac Marines within 12" of the Saga Bearer. They get shot up and need to make a moral test. As there is a Space Wolf Faction Unit within 12", the unit as a whole should get a reroll to thier Moral test. Becuase the SW IC allows this. Is this correct? (And if it is, then this effects the Blood Angels, as they get to benefit from the reroll) (Or becuase there are member of the unit that don't have the Space Wolf Faction, and we're not told how this unit targetting rule applies to all members of the unit, the unit as a whole cannot reroll the moral test...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Casman Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 If a Space Wolf unit is within 12", they get a reroll. So you have a combined unit of SW IC and BA Tac Marines within 12" of the Saga Bearer. They get shot up and need to make a moral test. As there is a Space Wolf Faction Unit within 12", the unit as a whole should get a reroll to thier Moral test. Becuase the SW IC allows this. Is this correct? (And if it is, then this effects the Blood Angels, as they get to benefit from the reroll) Sounds right to me. If the unit fails then the unit's all like "we got shot up, fall back!" and the SW IC is like "don't worry guys, I got this." Re-roll for success. I'm of the opinion that a unit can benefit from rules that they don't inherently have: like if the IC in question had Rage, but the rest of the squad doesn't. That extra Attack might be enough to swing a combat in their favour, granting a benefit of sorts. Maybe not the best example I have, not having my rulebook to hand, but I think it illustrates what I'm after. Now, to be clear, the Blood Angels never directly gain the re-roll, as they're not Space Wolves. I don't think this will prevent an IC from using it "on their behalf" so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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