++If I Had it to do all Over Again++

[Valerian]

Fellow denizens of The Fang,

 

I've been thinking about starting this thread for some time, but am just now getting around to it.  So, here is a little background to set the context for what I'm trying to achieve here.  I've been playing the game for over 25 years now, and collecting Space Wolves (ever so slowly) for over 20 years.  I've now amassed a pretty sizable force over the years, and have plenty of units to chose from.  However, many of my units are not necessarily 'optimized' for the current version of the rules, and much of what I have to chose from is shaped on choices that I've made over the years, across now 7 editions of the game.  For better or worse, my Great Company is more-or-less set in stone,  

 

For all but the newest players among you, I'm confident that you, too, are in a similar situation.  You've been amassing your forces for years, and have your armies fairly well established.  Now to the heart of the thread; if you had it to do all over again, what would you do differently?  What units, with what gear, would you aim to build?  What kits and models would you buy?  How would you assemble them?  How would you paint them?  How would you base them?  What would you do to ensure long-term viability of your army?  If you had the opportunity to start from scratch, what would you do?  Just as importantly, what would you not do the second time around?  What would you avoid?

 

I'm very much looking forward to the input from my fellow Wolf Lords.

 

Regards,

 

Valerian

 

 

 

[Jochteas]

I just started a month or so ago. So this is suddenly the most relevant thread in this entire forum to me

[Frater Cornelius]

Nothing, to be honest.

 

If there is anything that marks me, it's that I never regret any choice I made. I like my how Space Wolves force has developed and every 'mistake' I did when buying something, when converting or choosing a load-out has taught me a good lesson that, in hind-sight, I wouldn't have liked missing. I even enjoy the break I took from SW to try out most of the other armies. It made my return all the sweeter. If I wouldn't have done what I did, I might've never developed as a player and hobbyist.

 

So, never think to much. Every choice you make, whether right or wrong in the end, must be made with everything inside of you. If you feel a certain course of action will benefit you, do it, regardless of what anybody might tell you. Only that way can you develop your own style and shape your army. Hunting some obscure 'optimum' has never made a great army. You have to find your own way, not what some people on the internet think.

 

Ever onwards and never look back. That is how I do things.

[Valerian]

Nothing, to be honest.

 

If there is anything that marks me, it's that I never regret any choice I made. I like my how Space Wolves force has developed and every 'mistake' I did when buying something, when converting or choosing a load-out has taught me a good lesson that, in hind-sight, I wouldn't have liked missing. 

 

I'm not disputing the value of our previous experiences, or learning from mistakes; that's not really the point of the thread.  What I'm trying to extract from y'all is what would you do now, if you were starting all over again, taking advantage of everything you've learned over the years.  Pretend that you've lost your entire army in a tragic accident; what would you do this time around?  If your answer to that really is that you'd not change a thing; that you'd rebuild your army exactly as it is now, then good on you.  If that is the case, however, then you have nothing to contribute to this thread.

 

V

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Valid points Valerian.  Identifying mistakes and missteps allows you to grow and sharing that info with others allows them to avoid those same errors.

 

I would do a couple things differently if I had to do it all over again.

 

First I would magnetize more of my special weapons.  I am currently going back to do this.  And also to do this with my wolf guard pack leaders to make them into GH/BC if I didn't want to run a WGPL.  This is so I can be more efficient with my models.

 

Secondly I would space out my purchases.  It is daunting to have too many projects to do at once.

 

With this new codex there really isn't a whole lot of bad stuff you can do.  GH and BC are balanced so it depends on what you want to do (Assault primary vs do everything).

 

If I had to start all over again (I play a more shooty force now) I would buy TWC and build around them.  I sorely lack speed and TWC can help me with that.

 

Edit: For new players I recommend taking your time with your Wolves.  Assemble and paint with care.  You may end up having your minis for a very long time.  Take pride in your work.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Have a higher/more complicated painting standard for the army? (Seriously, trying to keep the appearance of my models roughly consistent with the older stuff is pretty irritating, my standards from age 16 leave much to be desired...)

 

On a slightly sadder note, If I'm entirely honest I'm not 100% sure I would do Wolves again, if I had to start over. I haven't liked the fluff changes since I started, as the 'wolf themed Viking Space Marines' aesthetic is sidelined in favour of an overwhelming 'Wolf Wolf, Wolves!!!' focus. This is especially problematic with the unique units, which are meant to separate us from vanilla Marines, but imo have been incredibly stupid, chief offenders being TWC and Logan's Sled.

 

That said, if I did, I'd be building towards army lists, rather than what I wanted to include (which is how I started out). Back in 4th, it was nice that the things I liked, tanks, terminators and large squads in tanks, also worked really well on the tabletop. That isn't the case any more, so a new army would probably end up being focussed around Drop Pods, smaller squads and WG bikers.

[Fenhunter]

I would have investigated a bit more, specially on pack markings and company symbols, my shoulderpads are all over the place

[Frater Cornelius]

 

Nothing, to be honest.

 

If there is anything that marks me, it's that I never regret any choice I made. I like my how Space Wolves force has developed and every 'mistake' I did when buying something, when converting or choosing a load-out has taught me a good lesson that, in hind-sight, I wouldn't have liked missing. 

 

I'm not disputing the value of our previous experiences, or learning from mistakes; that's not really the point of the thread.  What I'm trying to extract from y'all is what would you do now, if you were starting all over again, taking advantage of everything you've learned over the years.  Pretend that you've lost your entire army in a tragic accident; what would you do this time around?  If your answer to that really is that you'd not change a thing; that you'd rebuild your army exactly as it is now, then good on you.  If that is the case, however, then you have nothing to contribute to this thread.

 

V

 

 

Don't mind me then.

[Z00Z]

Valid points Valerian.  Identifying mistakes and missteps allows you to grow and sharing that info with others allows them to avoid those same errors.

 

I would do a couple things differently if I had to do it all over again.

 

First I would magnetize more of my special weapons.  I am currently going back to do this. 

 

This right here. I think magnetising from the get to is a must. I'm now sitting on 15 termies because I didn't....also having some of their loadouts no longer valid irritates a little. So What I'm personally doing at the moment is splitting out my GH packs into 2CCW and just bolter units. and converting some into BC's. Building some generic flamer, meltas, plasma and combi guys with specific shoulders that can be interchangeably used in BC's/GH/WG or unit leaders. 

 

New units which Im building now, land speeders, will be fully magnetised from the get go. also spraying all weapons from the start. nothing worse than trying to match later. 

 

Finally, echoing Leif, a lot more care painting from the get go...although we all get better over time. 

 

Also, changing my glue to be more "break off" or "brake fluid" friendly. As much as we love the plastic melting/bonding stuff, makes it much tougher to go back and change later. 

 

I hear you V, and I do feel for your post. After 20 years building an army, its disconcerting that you need to change, alter, add more to it. But the hobbying part of me is equally satisfying and being a completionsit, I plan to do at least 1 full unit of every possible entry in our codex (which im sure you already have :)   )

[Konnavaer]

An interesting idea for a post Valerian, I have just finished painting my second unit of TWC and they have settled quite nicely into my army giving me the option to field 2 units of 3 TWC to support the majority of my force which is in pods/rhinos and my mighty LR redeemer. I have a little over 4k points wise and started the army out a year or so ago with a squad of CC oriented wolf guard terminators as I loved the aesthetics and the image of a pack of terminator armour clad heroes with hammers and claws was too hard to resist. From this original squad I went the disciplined route and put together my troop choices of 3 packs of GH's before I tackled the more fun stuff (for me anyway) like dreads and heroes. In my case the motivation of having the leaders and elites of the army to do after I had finished the troops kept me going through painting 30 regular power armoured marines which I will admit was a bit of a slog, I have never been one for batch painting

If I could do it over I would (as I'm sure most of us would) make more use of magnets for my terminators and special weapons and try to ensure my painting for each mini, whether a bolter packing grey hunter or decked out wolf lord, had the same amount of time and care taken on their paint job. As satisfying as it is to paint the last colour on the last of your ten grey hunters before you sit back and look proudly at the whole pack in their glory, taking that bit of extra time to make sure you have done your absolute best with them is worth it a hundred times over. As far as composition goes I tried to make sure I planned what I would be buying next and looked at the army as a whole once the latest unit was finished as I wanted the overall feel of the army to be consistent, so I think again taking the time to really think about the role you want your force to have on the field makes a huge difference. Personally I want each of my units to be hard hitting and able to work independently as well as support each other, with speed and CC abilities to the fore as much as possible. In this spirit I tend to lean towards TWC and podding in TDA Wolf Guard to smash faces with thunder hammers as an alpha strike with more pods coming down in turns two and three with my hunters, I also picked up a stowmwolf which is fast becoming one of my favourite units to add in another fast and hard hitting element to things

The synergy in a wolves force is one of my favourite aspects of the army and by roughing out some ideas before you get stuck into the assembly/painting too much takes some self discipline but is definitely worth it in my opinion. A good start would be to sit down with a pad of paper (if you're old school like me, or an ipad if you're not so much of an old git), a beer (or six), some loud music and the codex and just put a load of lists together until you find one that you are happy with/looking forward to using then take it from there. Having said that I think if there is ever an army that embraces the impulsive 'must have' urge that we all get from time to time when we see something cool looking which is totally not what we went in to the shop to buy then its the wolves

Sorry for the essay but its the weekend and the mjod/jack daniels is flowing so I'm one happy whelp, looking forward to the input from the rest of the Aett, fenrys hjolda brothers !

[Karack Blackstone]

Thank you for this thread, Val.

 

Everything already said is great.

 

My changes:

 

1 - TWC by outside sources (other than GW) were a reationary purchase on my part at the time.  It made sense, however it was money I could have saved and done more with towards GW at the time, once the actual TWC models came out.

 

2 - SW and SM Tactical Box pairs.  I cannot reiterate how truly awesome this idea is to me right now.  I know it's more, however it really takes the flavor of the SW and spreads it out over more models.  Unless one decides on Logan's GC, there's really no other reason to have such wolfy models running around on the table.  Great idea, glad I read about it.

 

3 - One SW Ven Dread and either a SM Ven Dread or a normal SM Dread box pair.  Same as above.

 

4 - Skyclaws are actually a not bad second place to TWC, however the TWC don't require an HQ choice to lead them to get the most out of the unit.  A box of Assault Marines and a SW PA Box might be the way to go here.

 

5 - Vehicles are not as reliable as Long Fangs these days, however, Long Fangs can also be one shot now by things like Helldrakes and what not.  Predators, Vindicators, and Whirlwinds for fire support of line troops are now a very viable option, and their points are great compared to where they once were too.

 

6 - WGPL are very different as they are now an upgrade within a unit, rather than an attached option split off from the main unit of an Elites choice WG Pack.  I'd say take them whenever one can; the added Leadership, options of wargear, and the bonus to attacks outweighs the problems a Sgt. being a character brings to the game.

 

7 - GH's are great, however, BC's are now a very good choice as well.  I'm actually thankful for this because BC's are a rather specialist unit, and require a delivery method to get the most out of them.

 

8 - BC's need a ride, and the Stormwolf or Land Raider Crusader (LRC) both fit this delivery demand quite well.  While the flyer is a great deal more difficult to deal with, per the Flyer Handbook I need to figure out how to finalize, hopefully with some further feedback in that thread, there's one major point to reiterate here: always deploy from the opposide edge of the board you want to be on.  It's tempting to come from the closer edge; just remember that more board is more board, and take the other side and then get to the side you want to be on the next turn doing what you need to do with the flyer.

 

9 - GH's if you intend to work with mostly shooting should not need many CCW's choices in your force.  The problem is, to be all rounder still it can get expensive.  My packs run about 290 points due to all the stuff they and the WGPL have per pack.  Then again, I'm doing SS / PF WGPL per pack, so that's why.  Otherwise, try to keep them cheap if you don't want to worry about fighting hand to hand.  Yes, we do it well; if the pack is a rear field unit, half or no CCW's may be a great idea to save some points for other toys elsewhere in your list.

 

10 - The SW PA Box can make an ad hoc Wolf Priest and Rune Priest with the following bits:

 

WP:

 

- Wolf pelt rear torso

- wolf skull front torso

- Wolf pelt legs (on the front)

- Wolf Skull Backpack (or a Jump Pack Backpack)

- Bolt Pistol left arm

- Thunder Hammer Right arm (clip off the TH head right above the power unit on the shaft of the weapon)

- SW Backpack banner pole (glue to the top of the TH where the head has been removed)

- Shoulder pads to taste

 

RP:

 

- Runic looking front torso

- Any rear torso piece

- Runic Legs

- Beardy head

- Two handed Power Axe in each hand

- Remove the axe head, and place the two SW PA Box wolf skull heads on the two sides of the staff (Runic Staff, huzzah!)

- Shoulder pads to taste

- Backpacks to taste (Jump Packs too)

 

I'm done for now, hope this helps the young pups as I too have been around a while, not as long as Val though.

[skeletoro]

I'm constantly doing it all over again, that's why I've got a champions of fenris formation unpainted and just ordered like twelve thunderwolves...

[viddar]

If I were to start over again I think the main change would be embracing allies. I've been playing since third so my mind set is making TAC lists with one force. Its one of the traps I feel alot of us veteran players have fallen into, I think with wolves its worse because hunters were one of the best troops for fifth, sixth, and held their own in seventh before we were updated. So we expect to be able to do it, but if you look at big tourneys that just isn't the case anymore.

 

Edit: hunters are still good just not in that top tier anymore.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

The only mistake I regret was giving my 13th Company Wulfen models to a fellow son of Russ who I am tight with. I figured his vastly superior painting skills would make the models look more amazing than I could, and he did. At a later point he sold his Wolves, but I didnt get a chance to try and buy/trade for the Wulfen back. 

 

Other than that, I'm content with my Wolves and what i've done with them. It helps that I re-do them (either by selling and buying new stuff or stripping and repainting) every 2-4 years or so. 

 

One thing I would advise is to stock up on whatever paints you plan on basing your army around. I got caught with a change in yellows by GW. they say its the same color, but the finished product looks different. I ploughed on not expecting anybody to care about my paint jobs, but i was mighty steamed for a few moments.

 

WLK

[Rift Blade]

God. To do it over again. AS has been said several times will likely be so again---MAGENETS!!!! THey give so much versatility to army with a few simple mod's to a few models. Painting--like most, my painting skills have improved(I like to think so anyways)over the years. Beyond that, can't say i would change to much except maybe the way I bought my models. I like the idea of 1 Tac Marine bx to 1 GH box. It would spread your bits out, allow you to maybe model the Wolves through their various stages. BC's with only a wolf tail talisman & one other bit of SW iconography to GH's with 4 or 5 bits of SW bling to WG & LF where you could go hog wild with wolfing up your models. Thankfully, I've never been a real fan of BC's but the new Dex has got me thinking of putting a full pack together to go in my Storm Grrr when I finally get one after Xmas. And of course, all the different & cool conversions I've come across the Net over the years.

[Frater Cornelius]

Everyone is praising magnets. I only partially agree. They make painting a big problem, seeing as you might not manage to get the colour transitioning as well on the extra arms and it might show that those arms do not really belong there. So be careful with that.

[ORKILL]

If I had it to do over, I would magnetize all TWC, WGTDA, WGPA, and special weapon GHs . Swapping weapons when changing build instead of building new/rebuilding models is just so much easier.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Everyone is praising magnets. I only partially agree. They make painting a big problem, seeing as you might not manage to get the colour transitioning as well on the extra arms and it might show that those arms do not really belong there. So be careful with that.

 

Other than weapon mounts of my land raiders, I usually avoid magnets.

 

WLK

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

For me there is one thing I would do totally different if I could. That is buy a model and paint it before buying another. I would have alot less unpainted models if I was a tough more patient with my purchases

[FenrisWolf]

For me there is one thing I would do totally different if I could. That is buy a model and paint it before buying another. I would have alot less unpainted models if I was a tough more patient with my purchases

 

 

I definitely fall into this camp.  I have to have 5000 points of stuff unassembled.  I built about 20 troops, a couple rune priests, a couple razorbacks and an LRC.  Then life intervened and I didn't have a chance to play until 6th ed came out.  I got pissed about not having either fliers or anti air, so waited for the new codex. Now at least I can start semi-fresh.  I've bought a Stormgrr and some TWC.  I have 5 third party TWC which I'm going to mod into my TWM IPs and two TWN WL/WGBL.  These and termies I'll probably magnetize weapons.  I'll magnetize the Stormgrr, but for just GH/BC and their special weapons, I think it's just easier to built an additional model.

[the great beaver]

if I had to do it all over again... I wouldn't.

[littlbitz]

Wow, if I could do it all over again...

 

Over the years, and through the editions of the game, I had a habit of "starting" my Wolves over, so sold my old armies in favor of building a new.  I stopped doing this about ten years ago so have been able to amass a large Great Company. 

 

 As an example, I sold my 3 Land Raiders, from my "Raider Rush" list to fund some other units.  Now I wish I still had them, and had taken my time in my new purchases. 

 

So, if I could do it all again? I would have kept it all!!!

[Max_Dammit]

Ill never sell my wolves, and what would I do different, Les power fits on GH and BC, Man Do I mis those in the new builds

[WG Vrox]

Its been said but should be said again for anyone buying and building units, "MAGNETIZATION"  fun to do and pretty easy once you have the tools.  

 

started collecting wolves back in 3rd edition so most of my special models such as TDA are metal even my dreads so magnetizing them was a bit more difficult, however what I did do right was use super glue instead of model glue on my plastic models for their weapons and arms so I can just snap them off and re-glue on a different arm/weapon. 

 

I have a lot of plasma pistol GH and PW GH. Many SS/TH models for HQs and WG units, was the right thing to do back then, now not so much. Still though I have the models and if I ever need them they are ready for the table again. 

[Valerian]

So, I started this thread, so I might as well chime in.  I'm sure I'll need more than one post, though, as I think of other things.  Here are just a few, though:

 

1.  Magnets - not everything needs magnetization, and some models are easier than others, but certainly magnets on Blood Claw Back Packs and Jump Packs so they're easily transformed to Sky Claws would be something to do, if I were starting over.  Magnets are also easy to do on special weapon gunners, allowing quick and easy swap between Flamers, Meltaguns, and Plasma Guns.  I'd also magnetize Special Close Combat Weapons, where I could, to make trading those out simple.  In 3e and I think 4e, you wanted Power Fists, in 5e, you wanted Power Swords, in 6e and 7e, you want Power Axes; it would have been nice to have built them all for easy swapping.

 

2.  No Metal - over the course of the last two decades, I've gone from loving the lead/pewter to despising it.  If I had to do all over again, it would be all plastic, all the time.  It's easier to work with, much easier to magnetize, weighs less, is less likely to fall over and break, and easier to get a lasting bond with plastic cement.  I'm still trying to rotate out the old metal models that I've still got in my collection.  Plastic for the win!

 

3.  Special shoulder pads - I got lucky years ago, and bought up as many of the old pewter bas relief style shoulder pads as I could get my hands on.  Almost all of my models have the pewter Ragnar Great Company Pad, and an appropriate Pack shoulder pad opposite.  I still love how this looks, and much prefer the style to freehand or transfers.  If I had it to do over again, I'd definitely do this again, despite the extra $1 or $2 investment, per model, required to do it.

 

4.  Less Yellow - I'd probably avoid the traditional yellow shoulder pads for Ragnar's GC, if I were starting from scratch.  I've seen some terrific Red and Black secondary color schemes over the years that look terrific with the base 'Wolf Grey' and would probably go with that.  The Yellow and several of my disparate units just doesn't match up well and doesn't present the uniform scheme that I would prefer.

 

5.  Bases - I'm not sure in what way, but I'd change the bases up, too.  I might go with the popular cork bases, and elevate the models a bit off of the base.  That or perhaps go with some of the various resin base choices that are available, but either way, I think I'd put more effort into basing.

 

That ought to do for now.

 

V