Frater Cornelius Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 As a reference, here is my current SW + GK list: Jarl (Harald)• 2 Fenrisian Wolves Iron Priest• TWM• 4 Cyber WolvesIron Priest• TWM• 4 Cyber Wolves Iron Priest• TWM• 4 Cyber Wolves 5 TWC • 2 SS, Power Axe5 TWC• 2 SS, Power Axe 10 Fenrisian Wolves Grey Knight Librarian • Stormbolter, ML3, Warding Staff • Domina Liber Daemonicus 5 Grey Knight Terminators • Justicar, Falchions • Psycannon Nemesis Dreadknight • Nemesis Greatsword, Heavy Incinerator, Heavy Psycannon, Teleporter 1850 points. The NDK is a monster, he can teleport to the backfield and either draws huge amount of fire or he will blow up your Wraithknights, Annihilation Barges and so on. Librarian with Libers get 4 rolls on Sanctic and he and all friendlies within 6" reroll 1s when casting Sanctic powers. In most games I had Gate + Cleansing Flame to fry stacked units. They can also deep strike. The real draw with this list however is the flexibility. Every unit has redundancy and going down to other popular tournament point levels like 1500 or 1750 is very easy. I can not tell you how many different but effective combos I can do with the given units (swapping TDA for 5 Strikers is the only unit change) when reducing point limit. Taken all that into account this has been one of the best lists I have put together. It does, however, lack the ranged support and tries to make up for it with increased T1 pressure from NDK and the TDA. So, given that one weakness (mentioned in the spoiler) I was considering IG instead of GK. The amount of points can vary, but I like redundancy and the ability to seamlessly go down to lower point levels without having to change the strategy much or replace too many units. I like to have that sort of simplicity and flexibility. It makes mistakes less likely when under pressure. The GK detachment currently takes 579 points. You can give or take a few points, but not so much that the IG detachment takes over or the existing TWC core needs to be compromised. Edit: and since has been moved to be a separate thread, I also want to add that my TWC army is based on the Wild Hunt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Hunt) and one reason why I hesitate to consider IG is that Metal Boxes don't really fit that concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spafe Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 For simplicity sake here was my responce in the other thread :) The whole premise of this will be dependant on how many points you can throw at it. If hq tanks are too much then a single demolisher in heavy slot could be more affordable... but thats for you to work out based on how big your IG investment will be. Regarding the Hellhounds, I would go with a pair as they arnt overly expensive and give more redundency. Also will be easier to hide twc behind a pair of boxes. Vets wise, I would go with them in chrimera to keep up the aggression. Giving them plasma means that if your thc charge and butcher those zerkers etc, then the vets can cover them and make sure the khorne termies don't jump you before your ready (etc etc). It would also mean you dont need your twc to be everywhere at once, as other parts of the army can dish out hurt too. I would also give the vets chrimera duel heavy flamers to turn it into a mini hell hound. Fluff wise I will indeed read up on it and throw you some ideas if anything springs to mind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 My post was actually the response for this post of yours before it got moved here :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spafe Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Ah with it... nvm then lol Right, with regards to the fluff ebhind the army.. whats your theme on it? are the wolves some form of ghost hunt, a mythical gods on the hunt, or are they merely out 'hunting'? Are you converting models to fit the fluff or is it down to unit choices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 The Wild hunt is rather cool (features in a couple of my favourite games too!), and very unique in terms of a table top army. What sort of IG army where you thinking about to replace the GKs with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 Well, you can see my conversions if you click on the WIP link in my sig. As for the thematic. They are a Lost Company who decided to never end their Great Hunt (the one that SW do when looking for Russ) and changed their goal a bit to purge bad stuff. They occasionally get recruits from Fenris via relieve ships (I won't go into detailed fluff here). The spirits that are mentioned in the Wild Hunt, I wanted to incorporate those with fallen brothers. They still accompany and help the Company in combat. I will model some Spirit Hosts into them to show this little detail. The SW themselves are very real though. I have a boat loads of fluff written down in my own notes. It would take while to type it all out. But the basic premise it that it is an ever-crusading and wandering Company that goes around killing bad guy to earn their place along side the Emperor upon their death (vague Valhalla reference). Though they never truly abandon their brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spafe Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Very nice! loving the horses and the techpriests (sorry, Iron fathers) in your fluff, are the horses real or mechanical? if real then could the guard section be modelled as bondsmen/squires who help keep the animals... if they are mechanical then possibly the same but as iron priest apprentices... Or maybe bondsmen/crew from the ship your hunt uses to travel the stars? In bigger games/where you dont need to be as competiative, could also use some rough riders as followeres of the great hunt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 The horses are very real. Only the Iron Priest ones are mechanical. I want the SW have a 'beastmaster' touch, hence why there are only horses and dogs/wolves, while psykers would be something like druids. The GM could very well be modelled as Huskarls, this still leaves us with the question of 1) Metal Boxes do not fit the beast thematic. I could of cause get imaginative and bring out some beasts of burden with mounted guns to represent tanks, but even I feel that that is a bit far fetched. 2) the competitive side. A NDK and potential White Scars allies (Grav Bikes with tanking IP and drop pod Centurions) are not easily replaced. The IG element does not need to be aggressive, it just has to enhance the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spafe Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 If you are able to let the guard get 750 points I'd suggest the following as a loadout to help: Tank commander, punisher Punisher vets, 3 plasma, carapace chrimera 2 bane wolves 750 points. could drop cara and 3 plasmas to two meltas and get pask on the commander... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 By the way, there is one little thing that always prevents me from taking allies. I am okay with changes within my own codex, that is natural. But then the allied detachment takes up a lot of points and a new codex comes around, things might crumble. I prefer to have one stable core and with allies I feel like I am depending on too many things. With that in mind, I will have another look through the IG and MT codecies and simply tell you which models appeal to me and you tell me if they are even worth considering given the SW and their own performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 Hm, the more I am thinking about it, the more I get the feeling that IG make excellent allies for shooty SW, Grey Hunters + Long Fangs and stuff. They bring Platoons and Leman Russes for that. I simply see little to no benefit of shooty Guard to a TWC list, especially if that shooting requires me to give up some of my assault force. Tanks are very expensive and will compromise my TWC force. Valkyries (as well as MT) are a nice suppression unit, but they come on T2+, which means the reduced field presence that needs to advance is asking to be alpha'd. Artillery can scatter onto me. And the general problem with shooting is that I potentially increase my required assault range by a few inches. The only thing I can think of the CCS in Chimera, Vets in Chimera and Hellhounds to surgically remove units. They will not manage to pressure tanks though (and those xenos skimmers are the strongest tanks around right now), won't deal as much damage as White Scar allies and they bring AV values into a full T army, which means they are magnets for AT weapons, which the TWC usually laugh at. Edit: Correction, there is one thing IG can do to help a TWC army. And that one thing they do better than GK and WS combined. De-meching the opponent so that TWC can charge the creamy center. If you can come up with a decently priced but reliable de-mech strategy, this could really help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 De-meching? Sounds like autocannons to me, you can get more than you'd ever need in a single Platoon and they could sit back and score in your deployment too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spafe Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Basically warrior fish+1 A platoon command squad can take vox, autocannon 3 squads or so with voxs and autocannons 3 heavy weapon squads with autocannons This sets you back under 500 leaving you room for a ccs for more orders and another autocannon Thats 14 autocannons putting 28 str 7 shots down range to cripple all manner of truck short of av14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 That sounds like a plan actually. While I would not take THAT many. They are still cheap enough for to actually include a second mounted HQ in my SW detachment. I will try and get a mock list up so we can take it from there. Meanwhile, how can this tie into the Wild Hunt theme. Having no mech is already a good sign. But Autocannons need to be converted and those regular humans need a reason to there in fluff terms. What sort of conversion do you have in mind? Tell me everything ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 They could be spirits of soldiers helping or some such, the World Warp is your oyster, you could have them as almost anything you want :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 Here is the mock list: Harald • 2 Hounds WGBL • RA, SS, TWM, Krakenbone Sword, Fellclaw's Teeth • 2 Hounds Iron Priest• TWM• 3 Cyber HoundsIron Priest• TWM• 4 Cyber Hounds Iron Priest• TWM• 4 Cyber Hounds 5 TWC • 2 SS, Power Axe5 TWC• 2 SS, Power Axe 11 Fenrisian Wolves CCS • AC PCS • AC IS • AC IS • AC HWT • 3 ACs HWT • 3 ACs 1850 points. As contrast, here you have a pure SW TWC list: Harald • 2 Hounds WGBL • RA, SS, TWM, Krakenbone Sword, Fellclaw's Teeth • 2 Hounds Canis Wolfborn • 2 Hounds Iron Priest• TWM• 4 Cyber HoundsIron Priest• TWM• 4 Cyber Hounds Iron Priest• TWM• 4 Cyber Hounds Servitor Servitor Servitor 6 TWC • 3 SS, Power Axe6 TWC• 3 SS, Power Axe 14 Fenrisian Wolves 1850 points. Servitors are for scoring purposes. They just stand and drool on their objective, save in the knowledge only a retard will shoot them. What do you think of the IG addition. You recon it actually enhances the list? What if there is AV13 spam like Necrons or no AV at all, will they still be worth it? Or should I be getting some LC in there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Autocannons are versatile, so if there's no armour to shoot then you can train them on tougher infantry instead :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangTC Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Have you considered putting some guard in a pod? Those ogryns/bullgryns or even a melta ccs for tank surgery? Demo packs could be very accurate out of a pod. Also would the guard priest's hymns buff the TWC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 It would buff the TWC but he would not be able to keep up with the unit unless he can magically sprout wings to move 12" and gain fleet for the charge. I do not see podding veterans as superior to Grey Hunters. GH are tougher, have better weapons and can also get 3 special weapon shots, one of them being a combi-weapon. Bullgryns might be worth considering, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaM_TW Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Bullgryns could be modelled as some kind of beers bears... I was thinking spirits for soldiers, something like legion of the damned but then IG style, or like tht army of the dead thing from LotRings. Weapons: bows...? stretching it here, perhaps. But you could look into the Orcs&Goblins big crossbow-thing, that ballista. Might work. Nice idea though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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