Wish list for more diversity

[Zembar]

Okay, so we've all seen that while there is some good stuff in the new codex, the options per slot are, for the most part, severely lopsided.

So, I thought I'd make a wishlist for minor tweaks that would make some of the less stellar options worth taking...

HQ

We actually have some decent choices here, the Brother-Captain/GM and the Librarian are solid generic choices, and I myself like Castellan Crowe. Some more options like a named Librarian or something would be neat, but not necessary

Elite

Supposed to be one of our better slots, we even get extra in the NSF. It needs fixing though:

Paladins: They're supposed to be the elite of the elite. Why can't the GK spring for a few personal teleporters? That would make them worth the shedload of points they cost compared to termies.

Purifiers: Mostly good, but it seems wrong that they should be limited to incinerators like other PAGK after the psycannon nerf. If I was feeling extra cheesy I'd say they should get an upgrade to put Force on their storm bolters. Sort of like mini-psilencers that they can actually use. Either that, or leave them as is.

Dreadnought: I'm open to suggestions here. I like the models, but I can't seem to figure out a place in the list for it. Deep strike maybe?

Troops

Termies are fine, I think. Strikes need a little something extra. Their thing right now is that they can deep strike, and maybe that should get a boost; +1 on reserve rolls or reduced scatter maybe? That would be reasonable and fairly fluffy..

Fast Attack

I actually like our options here, Interceptors and Stormravens are both pretty neat. Rhino/Razor is what it is, but they're basically just bonus.

Heavy Support

This is the NDK slot. For anything else to be taken here it needs the be a) as good, or cheap points filler. Land raiders and Purgation squads don't cut it. I have no idea how to fix them at the moment. Maybe some actual long range weapons for the purgators?

Lord of War

Draigo is Draigo, enough said.

Of course, the most likely 'fix' we'll get is a compendium containing a formation of 2-8 NDKs with Eternal Warrior and FnP or something.

[Captain Coolpants]

The only real thing we lack is troop numbers (which isn't actually that bad considering how elite we are) so that's fine.

 

And the other thing we lack is heavy fire power. This used to be covered by psyfleman dreads. But they are now obsolete, and the standard autocannon dread is too expensive because we pay like 20pts just to get psychic pilot.

 

My fixes would be to give our rather expensive dreadnoughts heavy psycannons as standard.

 

And my second fix would be to make purgation squads actually worth taking! Either by giving them a revamped astral aim that gives all their guns 36" range.

 

OR

 

make purgation squads relentless! This would mean that our short range heavy weapons guys, can ACTUALLY act as short range heavy weapons guys. Would make the whole psycannon nerf far more bearable and would actually give us a reason to take purgation squads!

 

Or better yet, make them more expensive, and give them astral aim as a psychic power AND have relentless.

[Captain Coolpants]

As for our HQs. They are indeed good. But they will always seem sooo similar with practically no real customisations.

 

Standard Marines can choose what armour and have more weapons/wargear options. They can also have multiple artifacts.

 

Our HQs simply do not fair as well as other marine Eternal warrior biker/Thunderwolf mounted storm shield wielder.

[Zembar]

Yeah, relentless purgation squads would help(i'd even be willing to give up night vision!)

 

Regarding dreads, giving them the NDK weapon options would be kinda neat. Then they'd be real GK dreads. Nemesis force fist+Incinerator on one side, choice of Heavy Psycannon or Heavy Psilencer on the other. That would make them a lot scarier.

 

With those two, PT Paladins and more reliable GKSS I'd actually have to think about each slot.. Though NDKs would probably still trump purgators, I'd probably build a squad for experimentation.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

We actually have some decent choices here, the Brother-Captain/GM and the Librarian are solid generic choices, and I myself like Castellan Crowe. Some more options like a named Librarian or something would be neat, but not necessary

Brotherhood Champions and Crowe need to come down by 50pts apiece. As they currently exist, they're way too overpriced. Otherwise, yeah our HQ's are solid and do a lot of heavy lifting in terms of psychic support as well as combat and shooting (Grandmasters do all three, but you pay for it).

Elite

Supposed to be one of our better slots, we even get extra in the NSF. It needs fixing though:

Paladins: They're supposed to be the elite of the elite. Why can't the GK spring for a few personal teleporters? That would make them worth the shedload of points they cost compared to termies.

Purifiers: Mostly good, but it seems wrong that they should be limited to incinerators like other PAGK after the psycannon nerf. If I was feeling extra cheesy I'd say they should get an upgrade to put Force on their storm bolters. Sort of like mini-psilencers that they can actually use. Either that, or leave them as is.

Dreadnought: I'm open to suggestions here. I like the models, but I can't seem to figure out a place in the list for it. Deep strike maybe?

Paladins need to be 40pts a model. I'm not kidding. Riptides melt regular Terminators with impunity, so the extra wound almost never matters. Free melee upgrades to represent their higher status in the Chapter would be good too. Personal teleporters will never happen, they only ever fight in TDA, they're like the super-Terminator formation of the Chapter.

Purifiers are fine, its Salvo that needs to die in a fire.

Dreadnoughts need to be 100pts base and AV13. GW then either need to give them heavy incinerator/heavy psycannon/gatling psilencer as weapon options (and nemesis close-combat options namely hammer or greatsword), or make them support Psykers who have Mastery 2 and can select different Disciplines like Librarians can. As is, they do nothing for the army and die in seconds to the usual S6/7 spam.

Termies are fine, I think. Strikes need a little something extra. Their thing right now is that they can deep strike, and maybe that should get a boost; +1 on reserve rolls or reduced scatter maybe? That would be reasonable and fairly fluffy..

Termies should be 30pts, they're still fairly overpriced considering we're literally the Terminator faction, and Tides exist. Strikes need non-Salvo psycannon, and psilencers need to be Assault 6. We already have Reserves manipulation and teleport homers/locator beacon access, so those buffs aren't needed. Justicar tax also needs to die in a fire, our squads are never NOT lead by a Justicar, so let us have our free squad leader like every other faction.

I actually like our options here, Interceptors and Stormravens are both pretty neat. Rhino/Razor is what it is, but they're basically just bonus.

Interceptors are fine I think (Justicar tax dies in a fire once again). Ravens need psycannon and incinerator as weapon options, its dumb our flyer doesn't have the same weapon options as our infantry (it also needs Psychic Pilot back, as well as 'Banishment' and 'Shrouding' for psychic powers). Rhinos/Razors are unplayable so long as Hull Points exist sadly.

This is the NDK slot. For anything else to be taken here it needs the be a) as good, or cheap points filler. Land raiders and Purgation squads don't cut it. I have no idea how to fix them at the moment. Maybe some actual long range weapons for the purgators?

Land Raiders are useless trash, so lets not even try and fix them.

Purgators...sweet Throne Jervis, I cannot express how much I hate this latest travesty. Lets start with the basics;

- No Justicar tax (like Strikes and Interceptors, its dumb)

- Skyfire or Interceptor. This is not negotiable. If they don't have at least one of these rules, they're useless trash.

- Psycannons become Heavy 4 or Assault 2. Not negotiable. Psilencers are Assault 6.

- Deepstrike. With Purifiers I can vaguely understand your reasoning, but its ludicrous the stated support unit can't deploy alongside the Terminators or Strikes using the usual teleportation methods.

Until at least some of those changes are implemented, Purgators are deadweight.

[Zembar]

Paladins need to be 40pts a model. I'm not kidding. Riptides melt regular Terminators with impunity, so the extra wound almost never matters. Free melee upgrades to represent their higher status in the Chapter would be good too. Personal teleporters will never happen, they only ever fight in TDA, they're like the super-Terminator formation of the Chapter.

Hey, if they can fit PTs on both PAGK and NDK, they should be able to make a midrange termie-sized one, right?

Purgators...sweet Throne Jervis, I cannot express how much I hate this latest travesty. Lets start with the basics;

- No Justicar tax (like Strikes and Interceptors, its dumb)

- Skyfire or Interceptor. This is not negotiable. If they don't have at least one of these rules, they're useless trash.

- Psycannons become Heavy 4 or Assault 2. Not negotiable. Psilencers are Assault 6.

- Deepstrike. With Purifiers I can vaguely understand your reasoning, but its ludicrous the stated support unit can't deploy alongside the Terminators or Strikes using the usual teleportation methods.

Until at least some of those changes are implemented, Purgators are deadweight.

Agreed. Purgators are probably the worst unit in the codex. Their specialty(not counting Night Vision) is to carry special weapons, which is just sad when two out of three special weapons are useless in power armor, and the third one needs close range, which they'll never reach because they're overpriced footslogging PA dudes begging to be shot in the face.

[Gentlemanloser]

I'm echoing RD here, but some additions.

 

Bring back the named Characters.

 

Give the Brother Captain the option for AA and a PT.

 

Techmarine drops to 50 points.

 

Brotherhood Champion and Crowe get the option to take a Personal Teleporter.

 

Crowe is AP2 in Melee all the time.

 

Named Librarian Dreadnought.

 

Named NDK.

 

Jet Bikes.  We have no Bike/Cavalry option, we nicked these from the Eldar.

 

Our unique wargear returns.  Balance as necessary.

 

Storm Shield.  Paladin should get them as a free swap.

[Valerian]

Thread that I started around the release of the new codex, with some "fix" recommendations.

[Zembar]

Thread that I started around the release of the new codex, with some "fix" recommendations.

Some good stuff in there. It seems most people here agree on the problems, now if they'd only release a supplement to patch the leaks, that would be nice.

 

People have said that Orks, SW and DE got watered down codices so GW could get more money out of them from supplements fixing things. Well, at least they got the option, where's ours?

[Gentlemanloser]

GW have yet to come up with the name / conversion bits for our supplement NDK character.

 

Maybe it will be an NDK wearing a larger NDK suit...

[Zembar]

GW have yet to come up with the name / conversion bits for our supplement NDK character.

 

Maybe it will be an NDK wearing a larger NDK suit...

He'll be a regular-sized NDK named BabyCarrier McPure, and he'll make NDK troops along with the aforementioned FnP and Eternal Warrior for everyone. They'll also need to double the retail price of NDK kits because reasons. ;)

[shandwen]

 

Thread that I started around the release of the new codex, with some "fix" recommendations.

Some good stuff in there. It seems most people here agree on the problems, now if they'd only release a supplement to patch the leaks, that would be nice.

 

People have said that Orks, SW and DE got watered down codices so GW could get more money out of them from supplements fixing things. Well, at least they got the option, where's ours?

Im sorry, but I will probably quit 40k all together if grey knights get a supplement before Black Templars. There isnt any justification fluffwise for any supplement, and the lack of actual choices seems right with the fluff. Are some units over costed? Yes, but DA and CSM have that worse. Are the grey knights a tier one army? No, and that is really ok. They still are semi competitive and make perhaps the best allied force in the game outside of knight titans.

[Raktra]

The Justicar "tax" doesn't bother me, really. It's no more of a cost than other veteran sarge equivalents pay, and ours are actually worthwhile beyond "LOOK DADDY I GOT A COMBI-GUN!". The psilencer definitely needs put back to an assault weapon though, I can't even figure out how it could even need to be steadied the amount a heavy bolter would be.

Brotherhood Champ could drop by just 25 if they let him have Herald of Titan and unique force sword back. Crowe should be able to use one stance out of a challenge and both in, or super rend. Having him AP- is just weird.

Dreadnoughts I would love having their old psyker tricks and access to Dreadknight weaponry. And A3 base.

Give Grand Masters 4 wounds.

Aaand... Bring back Mordrak. I spent like £70 converting him and his unit up and now they're not special anymore *huff*

[Dr. Jocko]

Since GK and most of my gaming groups armies have been getting the shaft (Orks and DE) we communally decided to write up fixes for our codexs that we all agree on. I was planning on posting it here for further scrutiny in a more refined state since I think this forum is pretty level headed when it comes to balancing units, but since this thread exists I'll go ahead and post what we've come up with so far.

 

Our goal is to change what exists and not make up new units/wargear to fill gaps unless necessary. One key issue for my enemies has been GKs excess warp charges, which the removal of Psychic Pilot helped alleviate somewhat, but it makes the Psychic Phase annoying for them because it's so one sided. Meanwhile the units that fall short seem to suffer from a lack of polish or unique rules that make them viable for their roles. I point these issues out as you'll see the solution we came up with is more unique psychic powers that spread warp charges thin but allows certain units to shine. I'll try to keep it short.

 

General changes

-Add Mordrak and Thawn back in with updated rules that function nearly identically to their older iterations and points cost are adjusted according to their base model.

-Nemesis Halberds are S user, but come with a with the special rule "Swift: A model equipped with this weapon increases its Initiative by 1."

(Note: Getting +1 S seems redundant on units that can already add +2 S for free or get 2xS Ap2 for 10 points. Meanwhile a plus to Initiative we can't easily get anywhere else and gives us more utility.)

-Add the following Psychic Abilities to the reference page. These are not associated with Daemonology (Sanctic).

• Psybolts... Warp Charge 1

  Psybolts is a blessing that targets the Psyker. The Psykers unit treats the following weapons as having +1 Strength to their normal weapon profile: Stormbolter, Boltgun, Heavy Bolter, Assault Cannon, and AutoCannon.

• Astral Aim ... Warp Charge 1

  Astral Aim is a blessing that targets the Psyker. The Psykers unit have the Relentless and Interceptor special rule until the start of their next turn.

• Salvation ... Warp Charge 2

  Salvation is a blessing that targets the Psyker. All models in the Psykers unit have the Eternal Warrior and Fearless special rules and can re-roll failed Invulnerable saves until the start of their next turn. 

Brotherhood Champion

-Drop points to 110

-Add special rule Titan's Herald.

Options: May take a Personal Teleporter... 25 pts.

 

Castellan Crowe

-Drop points to 135

- Add special rule Titan's Herald.

 

Techmarine

-Drop points to 70

Options:

• May replace his servo-harness with a Personal Teleporter... free.
• May take up to 3 Servo Skulls... 5 pts/each
• May take Defensive Grenades ... 5 pts

• May take Rad Grenades... 10 pts

• May take Psychotroke Grenades ... 15 pts

(Note: Refer to Codex: Inquisition for wargear profiles.)

 

Strike Sqaud

Add special rule Scout.

Options:

• The squad may take Psybolts ... 10 pts

• The squad may take Sanctuary ... 10 pts

Terminator Squad

Options: The squad may take Psybolts... 10 pts

 

Purifier Squad

Options: The squad may take Psybolts... 10 pts

 

Paladin Squad

-Drop the points to 135 and 45/model

-Change Brotherhood of the Psyker to Mastery Level 2

(Note: Though counter intuitive to the "excess warp charges" statement earlier, I do believe a squad should be able to bring enough charges to activate a power specifically made for it.)

Options:

• The Squad may take Psybolts... 10 pts
• The Squad may take Salvation ... 20 pts

Dreadnought

-Drop point cost to 110

-Venerable Dreadnoughts can generate Psychic powers from Sanctic, Divination, Pyromancy, Telekinesis, and Telepathy disciplines.

Options:

• May take Psybolts... 10 pts

May replace its multi-melta with one of the following:

• Heavy Incinerator... 10 pts
• Gatling Psilencer... 20 pts
• Heavy Psycannon... 25 pts

Purgation Squad

-Remove the Night Vision special rule.

(Note: The addition of Night Vision is an insult and further proof that GW doesn't know what's wrong with under powered units)

-Add Astral Aim to the squads known Psychic Powers.

-Add the special rule "Weapon Specialists: Any wargear purchased from the Special Weapons list is done so at a 5 point discount. Any wargear reduced to 0 or less points count as a free upgrade for the unit."

Options: The squad may take Psybolts... 10 pts

 

Rhino, Razorback, & all Land Raiders

Options: May take a Locator Beacon... 10 pts

 

That's the simplified version, the full version just has more words to prevent rule lawyering. The Psycannon is still a problematic item as we agree the current version greatly favors Terminators over PA units, but no real answer to it has come up other than reverting it to the old assault/heavy profile but we feel there's a better solution to it than that. Hopefully your feedback will help polish this up.

[Gentlemanloser]

 

 

Im sorry, but I will probably quit 40k all together if grey knights get a supplement before Black Templars. There isnt any justification fluffwise for any supplement, and the lack of actual choices seems right with the fluff. Are some units over costed? Yes, but DA and CSM have that worse. Are the grey knights a tier one army? No, and that is really ok. They still are semi competitive and make perhaps the best allied force in the game outside of knight titans.

 

It's not like the Templars have a whole Codex full of options...

 

Oh.

 

All armies should be 'tier one'.  It is *not* ok for your in game potency to be arbitrarily decided upon by your choice of faction.

[IndigoJack]

I get where the BT are coming from, but at least your gained options when you lost your flavor. GK lost flavor and options

[Adeptus]

I think some changes to the core rules would really help Grey Knights. For instance, losing the game because you have no models on the table killed our Deepstrike utility, and for what reason? If you've still got units that can enter play, why should you lose the game? Scrap that rule.

 

Further, a lot of our cost and our potency comes from close combat ability. So the current game system that supports shooting so much more than combat tips the scales against us, which would be fine if we received a commensurate cost reduction, but apparently we were costed under the 5th edition rules. Removal of random charge distances and allowing consolidation into combat would be good starts. I know, I know, everyone hated consolidation into combat in the older editions, but given that units still have the option to overwatch, and that consolidation is only D6", I don't think it would be game breaking. It would give us an incentive to actually try and get into combat, rather than camping in the midfield and shooting at people.

 

Finally, Plasma is bull:cuss. AP2, S7 and a high rate of fire/blast? Why pick anything else! It can even damage anything other than av14 if you're so inclined. The prevalence of cheap plasma devalues anything in a 2+ save, which just happens to be practically our entire army, and hurts Terminators across every Marine army. Plasma should only be AP3. If a goddamn Earthshaker cannon is only AP3, then Plamsa can be AP3.

 

In a codex specific sense, our Paladins suck. They suck hard. Fixing them isn't too hard, there's lots of options. T5, Sanctuary as a base power, Eternal Warrior, points reduction, take your pick. It's such a cool looking unit, and such a cool element of the background, I hate that they're such a handicap to our lists.

 

Dreadnoughts suck. But then, everyone's dreadnoughts suck. Not sure what to do about that.

 

Purgation squads.

 

What to even say about these sad bastards. They can't fight, they can't shoot, but they can see in the dark real good. Options are simple: Give them better (more appropriate) weapons, or rules to better utilise the weapons they have such as Relentless, Ignore Cover, Deepstrike, etc.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I think some changes to the core rules would really help Grey Knights. For instance, losing the game because you have no models on the table killed our Deepstrike utility, and for what reason? If you've still got units that can enter play, why should you lose the game? Scrap that rule.

 

GW hate Reserve armies, I'm afraid we're never gonna see that fixed. They want you to feed at least half your army to the enemy TripTide list Turn 1, then come on piecemeal as the game continues and die to Interceptor. Without drop pods or our excellent NSF, that's exactly how Reserve lists play out these days. Its depressing. 

Further, a lot of our cost and our potency comes from close combat ability. So the current game system that supports shooting so much more than combat tips the scales against us, which would be fine if we received a commensurate cost reduction, but apparently we were costed under the 5th edition rules. Removal of random charge distances and allowing consolidation into combat would be good starts. I know, I know, everyone hated consolidation into combat in the older editions, but given that units still have the option to overwatch, and that consolidation is only D6", I don't think it would be game breaking. It would give us an incentive to actually try and get into combat, rather than camping in the midfield and shooting at people.

 

Changes to combat would be welcome, but again unlikely. I'd prefer price reductions, and free nemesis options. 

Finally, Plasma is bull:cuss. AP2, S7 and a high rate of fire/blast? Why pick anything else! It can even damage anything other than av14 if you're so inclined. The prevalence of cheap plasma devalues anything in a 2+ save, which just happens to be practically our entire army, and hurts Terminators across every Marine army. Plasma should only be AP3. If a goddamn Earthshaker cannon is only AP3, then Plamsa can be AP3.

 

Plasma has always been AP2, so I doubt they'll change it. Plasma is balanced by being on average the most expensive special or heavy weapon option, as well as being useless against high AV or FMC's/Fliers due to its blast or high cost per shot on the ones that shoot shots. Tides break the mould by being super long range, Ignore Cover (cover saves traditionally balance low AP weaponry) and on an incredibly durable platform with mobility as well. If Termies were cheaper I wouldn't mind so much about plasma. AP3 would be too much of a nerf. 

In a codex specific sense, our Paladins suck. They suck hard. Fixing them isn't too hard, there's lots of options. T5, Sanctuary as a base power, Eternal Warrior, points reduction, take your pick. It's such a cool looking unit, and such a cool element of the background, I hate that they're such a handicap to our lists.

 

I think Eternal Warrior is the cleanest fix. They still die to massed fire, but they can shrug off powerfist and other S8+ that usually annhilates them. 

 

Dreadnoughts suck. But then, everyone's dreadnoughts suck. Not sure what to do about that.

 

 

Get rid of Hull Points. But like the other general rule changes, it won't happen. GW seem committed to making everything bar dirt-cheap vehicles/Flyers into useless garbage

 

Purgation squads.

 

What to even say about these sad bastards. They can't fight, they can't shoot, but they can see in the dark real good. Options are simple: Give them better (more appropriate) weapons, or rules to better utilise the weapons they have such as Relentless, Ignore Cover, Deepstrike, etc.

 

 

The cleanest fix would be Skyfire IMO. It would be relevant and not especially powerful against lists without flying stuff. Their weapon options need to be fixed though, before Purgators or indeed any PA unit will use them. Salvo needs to die in a fire, psilencers need to be Assault...or just give the unit Relentless. 

[Everon]

Well I know GW will never listen to these posts but sure why not throw in my opinions on what could fix us.

 

-Return Mordrak and Thawn at reasonable prices. Make their models conversions (just like the Promethium pipelines and void shield generators in strong hold assault)

 

-Crowe: Return rending on a 4+ or keep ap2 all the time. Reduce cost to 135

 

-Bro Champ : Reduce cost to 100 with a 25 point cost for the option to take a personal teleporter.

 

-Librarian Dreadknight : (Just like in Malediction. A named Librarian rolling in a Dreadknight) Cost him at 150 base, mastery level 2 with all the options open on the tables and regular ndk upgrade options.

 

-Prognosticar Hyperion : (Just like Emperors Gift) Level 2 mastery, can take pysker spells from 'any' table and force one extra (without warp charge bonus) to be on Sanctic. All weapon upgrades are open but default has the warding stave and stormbolter and has Iron Halo. Price him around the 150 mark

 

-Paladins : Reduce costs to 45 points per model. Add tough 5 (since in the lore, part of training is to fight 1,000 lesser daemons with NO armour, that adds quite some toughness to em, no?) make them fearless, mastery level 2 and they all have iron halos or forceshield / random name object of 4++ness

 

-Purgation : Make Astral Aim into the ability to hit flyers on a 5+ and weapons count as twin-linked due to their supurb shooting skills / pyschic gifts aiding in shooting. Also has the option to take Multi-melta, Lascannon, Plasma cannon (seriously, why doesnt the most advanced army i nthe imperium not have the best weaponry?)

 

-Dreadnoughts : reduce costs to 110 and add options of Gatling Psilencer, Pyscannon, and Heavy Incenerator for weapons

 

-Pyscannon : Make it ap 3 and remove Salvo. Raise its cost by 5 points

 

-Bro Cap, GM , Draigo : Make tough 5 as they all are almost always recruited from Paladins also by lore, and training along should make them t5.

 

-Lord of War : Let GK also take Fellblades, Typhons, and other such options like regular space marines.

 

Look fair / balanced to y'all?

[Warboss dakka slugga]

Well I know GW will never listen to these posts but sure why not throw in my opinions on what could fix us.

 

-Return Mordrak and Thawn at reasonable prices. Make their models conversions (just like the Promethium pipelines and void shield generators in strong hold assault)

 

-Crowe: Return rending on a 4+ or keep ap2 all the time. Reduce cost to 135

 

-Bro Champ : Reduce cost to 100 with a 25 point cost for the option to take a personal teleporter.

 

-Librarian Dreadknight : (Just like in Malediction. A named Librarian rolling in a Dreadknight) Cost him at 150 base, mastery level 2 with all the options open on the tables and regular ndk upgrade options.

 

-Prognosticar Hyperion : (Just like Emperors Gift) Level 2 mastery, can take pysker spells from 'any' table and force one extra (without warp charge bonus) to be on Sanctic. All weapon upgrades are open but default has the warding stave and stormbolter and has Iron Halo. Price him around the 150 mark

 

-Paladins : Reduce costs to 45 points per model. Add tough 5 (since in the lore, part of training is to fight 1,000 lesser daemons with NO armour, that adds quite some toughness to em, no?) make them fearless, mastery level 2 and they all have iron halos or forceshield / random name object of 4++ness

 

-Purgation : Make Astral Aim into the ability to hit flyers on a 5+ and weapons count as twin-linked due to their supurb shooting skills / pyschic gifts aiding in shooting. Also has the option to take Multi-melta, Lascannon, Plasma cannon (seriously, why doesnt the most advanced army i nthe imperium not have the best weaponry?)

 

-Dreadnoughts : reduce costs to 110 and add options of Gatling Psilencer, Pyscannon, and Heavy Incenerator for weapons

 

-Pyscannon : Make it ap 3 and remove Salvo. Raise its cost by 5 points

 

-Bro Cap, GM , Draigo : Make tough 5 as they all are almost always recruited from Paladins also by lore, and training along should make them t5.

 

-Lord of War : Let GK also take Fellblades, Typhons, and other such options like regular space marines.

 

Look fair / balanced to y'all?

Imo the options you've listed are either way too cheap for the gear they get, dont make sense and would break the game with weapons such as ap3 psycannons ect

 

Another point that makes no sense to ne is paladins both being t5 and only 45 points? That doesn't sound balanced to me, infact it sounds more in the op side. You all dont like the point for point comparison to Normal marines but expect it to be in your favor instead of this "balance" that you want.

[Everon]

Well ap3 pyscannons is for the fact gk has at best ap4 shooties. Even sisters / marines are running around packing ap2 on normal squads.

 

For paladins yes might be cheap. Do note I've been playing for a couple months so I am still finding that fine line. But thanks for the feedback

[Warboss dakka slugga]

You're welcome, although the ap3 has no personal impact on me as i only have my ork army I'd personally think rending on a 5/6 would be more respectable than the ap3. Indeed other armies have better shooting but there is a combat phase too, admittedly it sucks in comparison but its where you thrive with all that ap3 force! I have to do similar with my snake bites, 6 20 man units run up the table to ensure i get to assault, but by my personal opinion after viewing a game in my store you have turn 1 deepstrike to soften up an army with 2 dk tp up the field to force the army to split its fire so its kinda the same when you compare the saves.

[Adeptus]

Plasma has always been AP2, so I doubt they'll change it. Plasma is balanced by being on average the most expensive special or heavy weapon option, as well as being useless against high AV or FMC's/Fliers due to its blast or high cost per shot on the ones that shoot shots. Tides break the mould by being super long range, Ignore Cover (cover saves traditionally balance low AP weaponry) and on an incredibly durable platform with mobility as well. If Termies were cheaper I wouldn't mind so much about plasma. AP3 would be too much of a nerf.

I thought plasma was AP3 around 2nd/3rd edition? I only really started playing at the end of 3rd edition so I don't remember.

 

I agree that a simple price reduction for Terminators is the cleanest and simplest solution, but part of me rebels at the notion that Terminators, the Emperors finest troops encased in the most potent personal armour system in the galaxy, should be reduced to cheap-as-chips units just to make up for the fact that Plasma weapons are too common and too cheap.

 

I think if people lost cheap, ready access to multiple shot AP2 weapons in every squad, they'd have a much harder time dealing with 2+ save units. And that's good, because on the whole 2+ save units are unimpressive on the battlefield because that save they pay so many points for is practically worthless.

 

It would have the knock on effect of making Lascannons more valuable choices due to their AP2, which I think would be another benefit. But it's all purely hypothetical, GW ain't gonna change something like that now.

[Gentlemanloser]

Make TDA a 1+ Save.

 

Saves still fail on the roll of a 1.  Except now the Plasma Reactor Suits Tactical Dreadnought Armour get a 2+ save versus Plasma Guns.

 

Meltas still melt TDA.

 

(This would be an across the board change)

 

That, or allow all TDA to reroll failed saves.

[Captain Coolpants]

I like the 1+ terminators armour save.

I just hate how terminator armour was made to withstand the innards of a plasma reactor... inside a whole freaking reactor! Yet a little hand held gun that spits some plasma melts a terminators face off... Makes no sense. Would make Dar more sense to make plasma ap3...but I guess it's easier to give terminators a 1+ save.

 

 

And I know this may seem weird... But I want my paladins to he 50/60pts base. But I want then to have all the bells and whistles. Better invun, higher mastery level, better powers, free nemesis weapons, maybe some cool rules ect.