Lord Asvaldir Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Not certain, but I think if you take Master of the Horde (or any other devotion), then R and H need to be your primary detachment, as the arch-heretic has to be your warlord. Hope that is clarified in the FAQ whenever it comes out, it's a conflict of rulebook rules vs codex rules so one has to take president. Not really sure what needs to be clarified, the rules for the Devotions literally say that the model must be your warlord. I guess that's true, still a conflict between rulebook/codex. true about the weapon teams, but not about vox/sigils...because infantry squads have to pass on special weapons to get those (so never?). 2x10 guys shoot as much as 20, but you will loose only 10 once the enemy shoots back/assaults/you fail a leadership test. militia training is the same cost as adding 1(!) veteran. ALL of the other upgrades are simply not worth it (rather take 3 more guys), with the possible exeption of khorne for blob mutants. really, if 6+ would be any good, orks would be winning tournaments. keeping renegades from dying is morally wrong and a sin against the gods of life expectancy. Keep in mind though when you pass up on 4 special weapons in a 20 man squad, you can still have 2 weapon teams-vox, sigil, caster and 2 special weapons with militia training seems like a pretty good load out to me. It's true one failed ld test they are gone, but I feel like with vox casters, banner of hate and sigils they will be fine. And sure militia training only costs 10pts, but it adds up if you're taking 6+ squads opposed to 3+. True on the +6 armor though, I doubt anyone bothers. Could grab the bloody handed reaver devotion and grab +5 but I feel like that's a waste as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minionboy Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 To make life easy, I wrote an article talking about all the different devotions and covenants on your warlord, which I put into one graphic: http://www.thediceabide.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/renegades_matrix.png read the full article here: http://www.thediceabide.com/2014/10/chaos-renegade-tactics-whos-your-demagogue/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Anyone who ran the old Vraks lists (any flavour) will see the similarities. Cheapest possible blob squad of mutants to drive forward, spend a little more on your renegades for the better Ld and pack in as many artillery and Russ as possible. Maybe 2-3 enforcers with just a stimpack. This is definatly not an AM book, I can see big squads pinning enemy while you fling blast markers into the combat - lose a few of our guys? You dont care, so keep driving those scum forward!!! I can see it being a useful list for my EmperorsChildren - NoiseMarines being fearless to begin with I can ignore the inevitable Ld collapse from the muties and it lets me specialise the squads even more for BlastMasters, SonicSquads OR CC - so im happy. On a related note, has anyone else being trying to figure out how to use the Infernal Dread? It looks like a seige dread, which is good, but the transport options are llacklustre. Should have been allowed to load a dread and 10 figures into the Khybridas. Oh well. P.s - great find on the covenant=/= Mark!! Edit - thanks for the article there minionboy, I really like your work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheesh Mode Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Are marauders really as good as they are made out to be? I mean sure, the addition of a free doctrine is great but the possibility of losing the unit to a failed leadership test is undesirable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minionboy Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Are marauders really as good as they are made out to be? I mean sure, the addition of a free doctrine is great but the possibility of losing the unit to a failed leadership test is undesirable. I'm back and forth on them... 75 points for 5 with 2 meltaguns, in an outflanking chimera isn't bad, neither is furious charge and crusader. To get the most out of them, I'd probably add an allied HQ to make them fearless. The downside is that close combat is where they are most effective, but also the most likely to break from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 How about Arvis lighters? Im thinking of some cheap OS units for maelstrom and grabbing linebreaker etc. (lost my last 2 games to that). Brutes maybe okay for it, but i was just thinking of renegades. Wyverns in a 1-5 battery is exciting, but im not hearing much about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minionboy Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 How about Arvis lighters? Im thinking of some cheap OS units for maelstrom and grabbing linebreaker etc. (lost my last 2 games to that). Brutes maybe okay for it, but i was just thinking of renegades. Wyverns in a 1-5 battery is exciting, but im not hearing much about them. Wyverns seem to be all I hear about for Renegades! I'm not sure on Wyverns, I want to try them... They are dirt cheap and like you said, can get obsec units right where you want them. Marauders coincidentally can get them as dedicated transports, which to me is kind of like having a bunch of mad max freaks driving the VW mini bus of the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 wyvernwvyernwyvernwyvernBOMBARD and dirt cheap earthshaker artillery. Russes are good (expensive) tanks, but much better when they can be bought as HQ with BS4 (not us). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Am I the only one thinking it would have been nice if a covenent of Tzeentch got you something other then spawn? I mean the others get blood sloughteres, sonic dread sand noise marines, and Tzeentch gets stuck with spawn. Rest of the book seems good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 There hasn't been mention of Tzeentch demon engines since Epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheesh Mode Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Here's a master of the Hordes list for you at a cool 2k. Renegade Command Squad: (4 Disciples) Master of the Horde/Banner of Hate/Command Net Vox/Lascanno) Enforcer Cadre - 4 - Shotguns/2Meltabombs Renegade Infantry Platoon: Renegade Infantry Command Squad: (30 Renegades+Demagogue) Command Net Vox/Chaos Sigil/3Lascannon/Militia Training Renegade Infantry Squad (30 Renegades+Champion) Champion:Chaos Covenant of Khorne/Vox-Caster/Sub Flak Armor/5Flamers Renegade Infantry Squad (30 Renegades+Champion) Champion:Chaos Covenant of Khorne/Vox-Caster/Sub Flak Armor/5Meltas Renegade Infantry Platoon: Renegade Infantry Command Squad: (30 Renegades+Demagogue) Command Net Vox/Chaos Sigil/3Lascannon/Militia Training Renegade Infantry Squad (30 Renegades+Champion) Champion:Chaos Covenant of Khorne/Vox-Caster/Sub Flak Armor/5Flamers Renegade Infantry Squad (30 Renegades+Champion) Champion:Chaos Covenant of Khorne/Vox-Caster/Sub Flak Armor/5Meltas Renegade Medusa Artillery Battery (3) Enclosed Compartment Renegade Wyvern Artillery Battery (5) Renegade Hydra Battery (3) Militia Training Wall of Martyrs 2000pts The Wall of Martyr's is going to be crammed with Infantry, I chose it over the Aegis Defense Line because it grants stubborn and the Hydras are sufficient anti-air. This list might be exactly what the Forge World team intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Am I the only one thinking it would have been nice if a covenent of Tzeentch got you something other then spawn? I mean the others get blood sloughteres, sonic dread sand noise marines, and Tzeentch gets stuck with spawn. Rest of the book seems good.Spawn are AWESOME. They're significantly cheaper than CSM spawn while being the same, and they become Troops with the CoT. I would take them over Blood Slaughterers any day, if I could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Well that list wouldn't do well in maelstorm games, however unless you're up against a bunch of ignore cover blasts, those infantry are not going anywhere anytime soon. I'd probably want some more long range weapons though, maybe some plasmas/autocannons. Tzeentch coven is not bad, core spawn is really useful even if it doesn't sound all that cool compared to daemon engines. One thing can't decide on, better to take medusas in vehicles, or in artillery batteries? I can see benefits to either, the tanks not very strong but comparatively fairly cheap for a vehicle with a very powerful weapon on it. Either way meduas are one of the main things I look forward to using in an allied R&H detachment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 I know that getting new/different units is nice and all, specialy considering how stale chaos was the last 6+years, but people have to remember that 7th is about cheap and fast MSU . Big blobs maybe cinematic/narrative/what ever one calls it, but they are realy slow and cost a lot [for the efficiency they bring]. A crucial part of any renegade army is going to be its csm all. Besides that they are more or less what others said, a way for chaos to get BB wyverns and bombardas[without playing SW+IG count as armies]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Am I the only one thinking it would have been nice if a covenent of Tzeentch got you something other then spawn? I mean the others get blood sloughteres, sonic dread sand noise marines, and Tzeentch gets stuck with spawn. Rest of the book seems good. Am I the only one thinking it would have been nice if a covenent of Tzeentch got you something other then spawn? I mean the others get blood sloughteres, sonic dread sand noise marines, and Tzeentch gets stuck with spawn. Rest of the book seems good.Spawn are AWESOME. They're significantly cheaper than CSM spawn while being the same, and they become Troops with the CoT.I would take them over Blood Slaughterers any day, if I could. New stuff would be nice, but spawn are good... And I've heard these spawn are cheaper and... scoring... I play cultists + spawn + giant chaos spawn... So I'm thinking of taking a mutant overlord + tzeentch list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheesh Mode Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 I know that getting new/different units is nice and all, specialy considering how stale chaos was the last 6+years, but people have to remember that 7th is about cheap and fast MSU . Big blobs maybe cinematic/narrative/what ever one calls it, but they are realy slow and cost a lot [for the efficiency they bring]. A crucial part of any renegade army is going to be its csm all. Besides that they are more or less what others said, a way for chaos to get BB wyverns and bombardas[without playing SW+IG count as armies]. Which would look like this: Chaos Lord - Mark of Nurgle/Daemon Heart/Sigil of Corruption/Lightning Claw/Power Fist/Blight Grenades Plague Marines (6) - 2plasma/Powersword/Rhino/HavocLauncher Plague Marines (6) - 2Plasma/Powersword/Rhino/HavocLauncher Obliterators (2) - Mark of Tzeentch Obliterators (2) - Mark of Tzeentch Renegade Command Squad - Command Net Vox - Banner of Hate - Autocannon Enforcer Cadre - 3 - Shotguns Renegade Infantry Platoon: Renegade Infantry Command Squad - (20 renegades) Demagogue/Command Net Vox/Militia Training/Sub Flak Armor/2Autocannons Renegade Infantry Squad - (20 renegades)/Vox Caster/Militia Training/Sub Flak Armor/2Autocannons Renegade Infantry Squad - (20 renegades)/Vox Caster/Militia Training/Sub Flak Armor/2Autocannons Renegade Infantry Platoon: Renegade Infantry Command Squad - (20 renegades) Demagogue/Command Net Vox/Militia Training/Sub Flak Armor/2Autocannons Renegade Infantry Squad - (20 renegades)/Vox Caster/Militia Training/Sub Flak Armor/2Autocannons Renegade Infantry Squad - (20 renegades)/Vox Caster/Militia Training/Sub Flak Armor/2Autocannons Medusa - (3) Breacher Shells 1999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Pms cost too much. I would replace them with 5 man csm units in rhinos and no upgrades, maybe a flamer in each unit and took at least 3 of them oblits MoN, other options are much weaker. helldrake out. either spawn as staling unit for a lord/sorc to hang around or bikers for more turn 1 objective camping. 3 medusas in one squadron are over kill. I would take 1 and maybe 2 wyverns both for staling the game and killing other msu/swarm units. GW hates tzeench and 1ksons. Wondering why GW does something to tzeench units is wondering why life is unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheesh Mode Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 No such thing as over kill in warhammer40k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Yes, but overdoing something past point efficiency is what he's reffering to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 What do you guys think about the two new Dreads: Sonic Dread Ferrus Infernum I'm thinking about how I would use them and if I should build them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I really wish for the ferrus that we could arm it with two ranged weapons like loyalist dreads-2 autocannons probably being my preferred build and with bs5 would be very nice. The contemptor can do that but I think it's too expensive. The ferrus isn't bad though, and I'd probably go with a plasma cannon and its close combat weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaanbull Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I used a bare-bones noise dreadnought yesterday against a mixed opponent with tyranids and orks. He fought well, protecting my flank while putting a few wounds on a carnifex, getting some termagaunts and killing a zoanthrope before he got surrounded by devourers and glanced in the back.Didn't quite make his points back, but his presence was enough to affect the battle, will definitely take one again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I really wish for the ferrus that we could arm it with two ranged weapons like loyalist dreads-2 autocannons probably being my preferred build and with bs5 would be very nice. The contemptor can do that but I think it's too expensive. The ferrus isn't bad though, and I'd probably go with a plasma cannon and its close combat weapon. I was thinking about the Seige version of the Ferrus. On the one hand I was thinking the AV13 would be handy. On the other hand I already have Contemptors and Decimators so maybe not. I used a bare-bones noise dreadnought yesterday against a mixed opponent with tyranids and orks. He fought well, protecting my flank while putting a few wounds on a carnifex, getting some termagaunts and killing a zoanthrope before he got surrounded by devourers and glanced in the back. Didn't quite make his points back, but his presence was enough to affect the battle, will definitely take one again. My concern with the Sonic is that he really only has 1/2 shots with the Blastmaster (if only they allowed him to have 2 regular Sonics for 6 shots). I think a regular 5 Noise with BM is about the same cost with more shots. Course, the Dread would be tougher. Still considering them both but not convinced they'll add to what I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Skull Mask Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Not sure if this was mentioned by someone already, but the regular version of IA 13 is out. Price is not much different from the special edition, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheesh Mode Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Yes, but overdoing something past point efficiency is what he's reffering to. Beyond removing one of the Medusa's and using it for another Obliterator squad there is not much that can be done with them. Remember: the Lost and Damned are allies despite out-numbering the primary detachment (and costing more, ironically). I cannot do anything with the heavy support selection and need a ranged anti-tank unit. If The Jeske is right about the need for speed and MSU, then the 'best' list would be a Primary detachment Renegades and Heretics Mutant Overlord with the Covenant of Tzeentch and an Allied Detachment of Noise Marines and obliterators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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