A More Effective Way to play Night Lords...

[Kathias]

Hey everyone! So I've seen battle reports here and there, as well as some army lists, of people running their Night Lords armies using Blood Angel rules. While I enjoy burning a loyalist alive as much as the next brother, I'm curious if others agree that this may be the better way to run the sons of Nostramo in 40k while still being fluffy/competitive?

 

I guess my overall question is this: Would YOU run Night Lords using Blood Angel rules? If so how would you do it?

[incinerator950]

I'd run them using a tesla burner with a chain bayonet.

 

Also, use whatever you damn please.

[Iron_Within]

Its up to you and your opponent to agree. However me personally I wouldn't run them as Blood Angels. Blood Angel rules do not represent the Night Lords. They are not the "Raptor" Legion (which many of us have said till we're blue in the face) they are a Legion/warband and pirates and renegades who use terror tactics. To represent them I would either use the 40k CSM codex or the Night Lords HH rules (which are pretty awesome), as we play 30k vs 40k without issue (and makes for fun games).

[Paradigm]

They can be represented by using a loyalist dex without problem, as long as you are going for a less corrupted version. Keep in mind Night Lords have never used assault marines/raptors as troops in the fluff or rules. If you want to run a raptor cult, your best bet is just to go unbound. When the Blood Angel codex first came out I was going to make a sanguinary guard heavy army, for my Night Lords. It wouldn't have been competitive, but it would have been fun. Deepstriking Landraiders are very Night Lordesque

 

The best way to run Night Lords is without a doubt the Chaos Space Marine Codex. Perhaps with little support from Forgeworld and IA:13 and/or Crimson Slaughter supplement, if you like more competitive rules over fluff.

[Gree]

I don't really think that either Codex really represents the Night Lords. I know alot of people have used the Blood Angels Codex to represent them, but that doesn't quite work for them. The Chaos Codex doesn't quite work when you have stuff like Night Lords without Night Vision or Night Lords champions eager to take part in forced challenges against overwhelming odds.

[Forté]

It all really depends on what version of Night Lords you're aiming for really. Blood Angels can work for the more "Raptor" style warband. But that is never going to be the only type.

 

For me Night Lords is about Terror, Communications Disruption and overwhelming attacks. The Terror part is difficult to show on the table. Others can be done a bit using the Loyalist dex and choosing the right Chapter Tactics. As for the attack style, that is down to deployment and movement.

 

End of the day though it's up to you to decide how you run your army and thanks to 10k years of escape from Imperial tyranny, they are free to decide on their own Modus Operandi.

[walpurgisnacht]

I remember reading something like this only using Carcharodons chapter tactics. FW download (im lazy and not including the link :))

 

Anyhoo, the gist is ubergrit for an extra point and they get blood thirsty. Also, special character unlocks claw termies as singular troop choice. Miss out on marks, daemonic stuffs; get ATSKNF and loyalist toys.

 

It's funny, but I've been thinking about using Carcharodons chapter tactics to run Blood Angels

[Xenith]

Erm. You gain more reliable jump pack deepstriking reserves, and accurate landing.

 

The most night lordy thing they had was 'fear of the darkness' but that has gone the way of the dodo.

 

Night Lords Chaos Space Marines, are, unsurprisingly, best represented by the Chaos Space Marine codex, or indeed their HH counterpart rules.

 

However, if you wish to run a raptor heavy army, then this is best represented by the blood angels codex. However it will not be representative of a standard Night Lords warband.

[Jacinda]

I would have thought C:CSM and Crimson Slaughter for the Harbringers rule would be the way to represent Night Lords. Some of the CS warlord traits also follow the fear and terror theme.

[the jeske]

Erm. You gain more reliable jump pack deepstriking reserves, and accurate landing.

 

The most night lordy thing they had was 'fear of the darkness' but that has gone the way of the dodo.

 

Night Lords Chaos Space Marines, are, unsurprisingly, best represented by the Chaos Space Marine codex, or indeed their HH counterpart rules.

 

However, if you wish to run a raptor heavy army, then this is best represented by the blood angels codex. However it will not be representative of a standard Night Lords warband.

Doesn't that kind of a contradict the fluff. NL didn't have that many grand companies to begin with and they had one made exclusivly out of raptors. That would mean that the both the chance to see NL warband with a lot/mostly raptors is high enough for it to be more then a one off and the chance to find a  NL raptors warband is much higher then finding a jump troop warband out of any of the other legion[save for BL and hurons corsiars which fluff says that they have tons of everything].

[Balthamal]

What it really boils down to is the kind of Night Lords warband you're looking to portray. If you want one who has set up shop in the Eye of Terror and taking advantage of millennia worth of weird and wonderful creations from the Dark Mechanicum and Daemonologists everywhere then the Chaos Codex is the place for you. For everything else, you're going to use the Legion rules found in Massacre because they are the closest you'll ever get to the whole Terror inducing, knife you in the back, run when it stops being fun vibe. 

[Noctus Cornix]

Honestly, I think just using the Codex Crimson Slaughter is the best way to represent Night Lords. It gives everyone in your army fear but at the price that no one except Cult Marines can take Veterans of the Long War. Which, if you think about it, doesn't entirely fit them all that well. Night Lords are well known cowards and will quickly run away when even the hint of a fair fight is looming on the horizon. So it doesn't really make all that much sense that they would be high in leadership or be all that adept at fighting Space Marines. Just my two cents.

[Xenith]

 

Erm. You gain more reliable jump pack deepstriking reserves, and accurate landing.

 

The most night lordy thing they had was 'fear of the darkness' but that has gone the way of the dodo.

 

Night Lords Chaos Space Marines, are, unsurprisingly, best represented by the Chaos Space Marine codex, or indeed their HH counterpart rules.

 

However, if you wish to run a raptor heavy army, then this is best represented by the blood angels codex. However it will not be representative of a standard Night Lords warband.

Doesn't that kind of a contradict the fluff. NL didn't have that many grand companies to begin with and they had one made exclusivly out of raptors. That would mean that the both the chance to see NL warband with a lot/mostly raptors is high enough for it to be more then a one off and the chance to find a  NL raptors warband is much higher then finding a jump troop warband out of any of the other legion[save for BL and hurons corsiars which fluff says that they have tons of everything].

 

 

More likely to see an army comprised entirely of raptors when fighting the Night Lords =/= All night Night Lords forces are dominated by raptors 

 

Like you say If no other Legion than the night lords fielded a full company of raptors, then the chances of fighting an all raptor army made of night lords are infinitely greater than one not made of night lords.

 

This still does not mean that Night lords forces are 60% Raptor.

[Kol Saresk]

They had over 100 companies. That gives room for a ton of variety. Glean from that what you will.

[Tenebris]

Personally I would use the Raven Guard chapter tactics with a Rhino based army. It is elusive in the first turn, striking in the following. A rush list based not upon impact but on finesse. IMO the RG traits are great for a Rhino based army which can be quickly across the board where it can be nasty. 

[KingBlanco1994]

Depends what flavour of Night Lords you want

Sneaky Night Lords raven guard tactics

Non chaos still acting like heresy era night lords 30k list

Chaosy night lords use chaos space marine codex

[the jeske]

They had over 100 companies. That gives room for a ton of variety. Glean from that what you will.

Which were divided in to grand companies. One of which was raptor only. They were the first ones to use mass raptor formations. Unless all that was retconed.

 

 

This still does not mean that Night lords forces are 60% Raptor.

 

Only you said that somehow a raptor warband is not a NL one. When they were the one specilising in that way of fighting. That would be as If someone who wants to play a siege list was told that siege is not IW , but siege is not the only thing they did. No legion , save for maybe 1ksons, did only one thing.

[Kol Saresk]

 

They had over 100 companies. That gives room for a ton of variety. Glean from that what you will.

Which were divided in to grand companies. One of which was raptor only. They were the first ones to use mass raptor formations. Unless all that was retconed.

 

Eh, no. That wasn't retconned because that never existed. From the ground up, the Night Lords Legion is organized into squads, which are then grouped into companies. That's it. In Prince of Crows, we see that Sevatar divides the Legion and issues orders for the companies to come together into six Great Companies, which we don't know if that happens or not.

 

And out of all those companies, we then get Zso Sahaal's one, individual, normal company, which is known as the "Raptors" and is assumed to be made up entirely of Night Raptors. And we know so little of this company that we don't even know how large it was. Even then, one company out of at least one hundred that vary anywhere in size from 100-1,000 Night Lords per company, still does not and will not make the Night Lords Legion 60% Raptors. So as I said, there is plenty of room for variety.

 

Is the Blood Angels a good way to reflect a Raptor cult if you are digging for a count as list? Yes, between the BA and the RG Chapter Tactics, you'd be set. Is it a good way to represent the Night Lords? Only if you want a more assault-focused force, which is your prerogative as a player. Is it a fluffy way to play the Night Lords? Well there was Xarl and Uzas who were pretty aggressive so if that's how you want to go, then you can go that way. But ultimately, it depends on you. It depends on how you, the player, wants to play your army. The only thing we can tell you is that the BA Codex is only "fluffy" if you are wanting to play a more assault-oriented Night Lords list, but strictly speaking, it does not fully one hundred percent cover all of the background aspects of the Night Lords.

 

We do have the Night Lords as having good relations with the Raptor Cults due to having similar mindsets. We do have an example of where one command company that belonged to a very short-lived First Captain is believed to have been entirely made up of Raptors. We do have evidence that the Night Lords made a very good use of the early Raptors/Assault Marines alongside the Sons of Horus and the Raven Guard. And the Night Lords were fans of shock assault tactics. If you stick to those details, then yes, the BA Codex is a "fluffy" count as. However, it is not the only fluffy way to play Night Lords, nor is it the "most" fluff-oriented as the BA are a melee assault, and the Night Lords are not.