Good Ultramarine Books / Audio Books

[Prot]

As I'm firing up the creative juices to get my Ultra's put together, I really enjoy listening to audio books, and in spare time reading books on armies I'm working with.

 

I've had trouble finding much Audio Book wise for Ultramarines.

 

I've thoroughly enjoyed what I've read of them in the Horus Heresy Series. Unremembered Empire specifically, was a great read.

 

I missed some of the Calth stuff. I have read most of the HH books, and most recently there is some great Ultramarines featured in Vengeful Spirit. It's a great read as well, with some good HH stuff regardless of Legions involved.

 

Audio Books specifically I love listening too while painting/assembly (I hate putting stuff together so it really helps. lol )

 

- Censure: . I just finished listening to this. Nick Kyme wrote it to take place a couple of years after Calth has been invaded. Underground battles still rage as the surface is scorched. A couple of Ultramarines are doing some stints there trying to 'clean house'. The main character, a former Sergeant who wears the mark of Censure is our hero in this one. Tasked with a reconnaissance mission involving some Word Bearers, things escalate quickly and the Ultramarines are caught on their backfoot. Our censured Ultramarine, Aeonid Theil, is assisted by crackshot guardsman, and faces overwhelming odds to turn the situation around.

 

I thought it was a great story, especially for something so short. I actually cared about the Guardsman, and found the evolution of Aeonid's character was just as interesting as the well spun action sequences. It's quick but entertaining.

 

Unfortunately this is the only one I've found. Although i prefer Horus Heresy stories involving Ultra's or Guilliman, I'd listen to something post heresy as well.

 

I kind of wish I hadn't read Unremembered Empire as I'm sure it would have been a great audiobook.

 

Any suggestions? (I am listening to a Gav Thorpe audio book right now called Honour the Dead. But this revolves more around Titans warring on Calth, specifically the wartorn city of Ithraca. Marines are kind of background story and the dieing city / citizens are more closely featured.)

 

 

 

 

 

[Prot]

Well I have to admit with over 30 views I am disappointed to see that no one has added to the Ultramarine book / audiobook reviews.

 

So I guess I will have to add to it myself. lol

 

I am about 3/4 of the way through another Ultra-audio book. This time authored by Graham Mcneil. I'm honestly not a fan of his old Ultra stuff, but I wanted to try Rules of Engagement. The price seemed very reasonable for an hour and a half of Audiobook.

 

I really liked this a lot as it covers the Codex Astartes, invented by Guilliman and of course first implemented by the Ultramarines. When you think about it considering how paramount loyalist 40K is to this holy tome of tactical knowledge, it's surprising we don't see more of this kind of story.

 

Captain Ventanus is the trusted sole tasked with studying and implementing Guilliman's guide for the first time in real battle. Some of it is unorthodox, and much of it is written for a new era of brother vs. brother.

 

The story moves quickly to multiple scenarios where these theories take the acid test. Not everyone agrees with these methods but to question them is to question a Primarch. The action is heavy, and it flows very nicely and next think you know you're hour and a half is up.

 

The story is very good, and I'd say mandatory for an Ultrafan since we're talking about the backbone tactica of the future Imperium. The production values aren't nearly as entertaining as something like Censure by Nick Kyme, but it is well read.

 

Censure gives me more raw emotion and very strong characters, and Rules of Engagement gives us a cerebral, top down look at war in a very interesting, developmental time of the Imperium Secondus. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

[blackoption]

Although they are not the central part of the plot... "For the Dead" (if I remember the title correctly) was enjoyable.  The Squad mentioned has a few interesting discussions on the nature of the war they are now in.

[Legatus]

The story is very good, and I'd say mandatory for an Ultrafan since we're talking about the backbone tactica of the future Imperium.

 

 

Sorry, I cannot let that stand unchallenged.

 

'Rules of Engagement' is another slap into the face of Ultramarine enthusiasts by the hand of Graham "the codex isn't that great" McNeill.

 

Not only are we told that the Codex doctrines were not, in fact, developed and refined by the Ultramarines Legion throughout the Great Crusade and codified during the Scouring, but made up by Guilliman completely from scratch and on the spot during the Heresy, the Codex doctrine is also not described as empirically verified suggestions for best couses of action the commander can consider, but a mystical complete battle plan that is mandated to the user from start to finish, without the user being aware of what that plan is really meant to accomplish. He is given a list of steps to perform, and after following all of those steps without knowing what is going on, they ultimately lead to a victory, to the amazement of the Commanders who previously had thought the suggested steps foolish.

 

And of course McNeill uses this opportunity he is given writing about the Primarch of the Ultramarines to have him personally verify that, no, the Codex really isn't all that great. That rogue Ultramarine Captain who doesn't play by the rules? He was right not to do so. Guilliman himself vindicates him. The rest of the Chapter is doing it wrong.

 

"Mandatory for an Ultrafan" this is not. Unless said Ultrafan already is not all that keen on the Codex Astartes and the Ultramarines' continuing reliance on it.

[Prot]

Well we may disagree strongly, but thanks for posting. It would be nice to get people to actually add to the content of Ultra fiction listed here.

 

I always saw the codex astartes as not much more than a 'force org' flow chart until I read this piece. I did think it had complete flexibility in it as several options are given to the captain dependent on the outcome of the previous actions. This is mentioned in the story a few times.

 

To say it isn't refined is somewhat... misleading. I mean this the very first baby steps of the codex astartes. To say it doesn't grow is a bit premature at this point. I'm sure there is a lot of time following this story line to grow the initial foundation of the codex astartes.

 

I also don't think it's foolish at all of the commander to wonder if the first runs of the Codex Astartes implementation will work. I mean if these guys knew everything, why bother with the Codex? It is born out of a need to fight brother against brother... for the first time! It definitely will include the unorthodox.

 

Don't forget in Angel Exterminatus the best of the best Iron Warriors are going head to head in war game simulations. None can even come -close- to matching the intelligence or strategic capability of Perturabo.

 

Primarchs operate on a whole different level... from body to mind. These are demi-gods, concocted by a god..... not just dudes with implants like marines.

 

Taking all this into account, I had no issue with Graham's take on the Codex. I think the first implementations were so profound, AND unorthodox it gave a captain the ability to beat and demolish Primarch lead forces! Wow.... How would that not be tough for a captain to swallow (for the first time?!)

 

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the last line but I still stand by calling it a must read for someone who wants to understand the ideals and relationship of the codex astartes to the Ultramarines.

[Legatus]

It would be nice to get people to actually add to the content of Ultra fiction listed here.

 

 

I am sure some Uriel Ventris fans will come along and recommend something, but to me as a dedicated Ultramarines fan since the late 90s there sadly has never been a good book about the Ultramarines. It seems that the curse of the Ultramarines is that no author will do them justice. Graham McNeill has made it his main agenda to tear down the Codex Astartes, and has included at least one scene where the Ultramarines are forced to go against some asinine suggestions of the Codex in order to prevail in almost every single one of his stories about them. Dan Abnett gets to write the Battle for Calth, which had me hope for some better treatment, but he promtly throws out the previous account of the battle (which had the Ultramarines win through a series of maneuvers on the ground and in space), turns it into a semi-victory for the Word Bearers, and has the Ultramarines insta-rout the Word Bearers by one single battle after which a deus ex machina does all the work.

 

But I haven't read Catechism of Hate, I hear that is somewhat decent.

 

 

To say it isn't refined is somewhat... misleading. I mean this the very first baby steps of the codex astartes. To say it doesn't grow is a bit premature at this point. I'm sure there is a lot of time following this story line to grow the initial foundation of the codex astartes.

 

 

But why is 'Rules of Engagement' spinning a story of how the Codex Astartes is a completely new and never before used doctrine? Other sources tell us how Guilliman had been looking at other doctrines throughout the Great Crusade, and how the Ultramarines "learned from every engagement and applied what they had learned to the next". The Index Astartes articles even stated that he had been developing a Codex doctrine during the Crusade, and was already approaching some of his brothers with it shortly before the Heresy. The Codex doctrine originally was the result of two hundred years of perfecting their doctrines, of all they had learned. But instead, McNeill wants to tell us that Guilliman made it all up on the spot, and the Ultramarines themselves were entirely unfamiliar with those doctrines.

 

 

I also don't think it's foolish at all of the commander to wonder if the first runs of the Codex Astartes implementation will work. I mean if these guys knew everything, why bother with the Codex? It is born out of a need to fight brother against brother... for the first time! It definitely will include the unorthodox.

 

 

But surely the Commander should know what he is doing, and why the Codex suggests to move units to certain positions? He is not supposed to find out what all of the maneuvering was meant to achieve only at the end when the plan comes together. That notion is stupid as hell, there is no other way to describe it.

 

 

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the last line but I still stand by calling it a must read for someone who wants to understand the ideals and relationship of the codex astartes to the Ultramarines.

 

 

It was refering to McNeill's agenda for the Ultramarines. Their background since 1st Edition is that they adhere strictly to the ten thousand year old doctrines, and since 2nd Edition they are described as one of the (if not the) most successful loyal Space Marine Chapter.

 

But ever since Graham McNeill was given the position to write about them, he has made it his mission to explain how flawed the Codex doctrines really are. In almost every of his stories, there will be a scene where the Codex Astartes gives poor advice, that would lead to death and defeat if followed, and the Ultramarines grudgingly have to go against the words of the Codex in order to prevail. When McNeill did that the first time, I thought it odd for a story about the Ultramarines. Bashing their one main core character trait. When he did it the second time, I was becoming suspicious. When I learned that he had already done it earlier in a short story and a short comic strip, I thought this was some bad inside joke. Since then he has written at least six or seven stories wherein the Codex Astartes is shown to be deeply flawed, even glaringly bad. In Graham McNeills version of the 40K universe, the Ultramarines are not one of the most successful Chapters because the Codex doctrine works so well, they are the most successful Chapter inspite of insisting to adhere to a deeply flawed doctrine.

 

Personally, I am a fan of a Chapter that adheres to a highly advanced and developed treatise on warfare that was written by their Primarch ten thousand years ago, where some Chapters have strayed from the true path over the millennia, but where the Ultramarines have remained faithful to the work of their Primarch.

Fans of McNeill's books are fans of a Chapter too derpy to grasp basic concepts of military doctrine and which obeys a flawed text that will not allow the use improvised explosives even if the destruction of a bridge is crucial, will not allow utilising undersupplied vehicles even if it is the only available one, will not allow the use of understrength forces to defend a position where no full strength force is at hand, demands that an infiltrating unit "attack the enemy at every opportunity" even if that jeopardizes their mission, but later demands that a different unit behind enemy lines must under no circumstances give away their position even though their primary target is about to slip away. Those are just some examples of the "flawed Codex" described in McNeills work. How the Chapter was even able to survive the first millennium without their Primarch is a mystery. But then he wrote that thing, so he probably was not much help either.

[Prot]

Out of curiosity, you didn't like Unremembered Empire?

 

I really enjoyed that as well.

[Legatus]

I did enjoy Unremembered Empire for the most part, at least as a dramatic story. What curbed my enjoyment a bit was the continuation of the "500 worlds of Ultramar" nonsense and the "Imperium Secundus" plot (both of which appear to be created to make Guilliman look more like a jerk IMO). Both of those plots explicitely did not exist in the previous lore of the Ultramarines, where Ultramar pretty much existed the way it does in the 41st Millennium since the Great Crusade, and where the Ultramarines got engaged in the Heresy only at the very end. These events were retconned in for the Horus Heresy series, and they are unfortunately not to the benefit of the Ultramarines. Other than that the events described in the book were interesting to follow. Except perhaps for the part where Guilliman gets mauled by ten Space Marines. And that after Abnett had Guilliman be slapped around by an inferior opponent in his last book as well...

[markham82]

Ok I enjoyed these books( then again I still have to read a book featuring power armour that I didn't enjoy) regardless of what the literary informed think of them. You'll have to judge for yourself.

 

Battle for the Abyss

Ultramarines Omnibus

 

I also don't know if they come in audio.

[Prot]

Oh don't worry I'm as uninformed as it gets. :)

 

Battle for the Abyss was a difficult read for me.

 

The Ultramarines Omnibus... I haven't been through it yet. The two Ventris novels I have read were not my favorite.... but I see the allure if you're an Ultra-fan hoping to see some Ultra bolter porn.

 

Honour the dead is different for sure, and feels like it's right out of a WW2 movie to me.

 

As a result of these books I'm thinking of picking up the (physical) copies of Calth books... like Mark of Calth.

 

I still think Censure might be my favorite thus far. I would really like to see Nick Kyme expand that character.

[GrandMagnus]

Battle for the Abyss was terrible. I mean, it had a few moments, but otherwise I feel Ben Counter went the easy way for describing the legions:

 

SW: Drunk, brawling space vikings.

UM: Roman, Logistics, Orders.

WE: RAAAAGE!

WB: Bad guys without personality. 

 

Did not enjoy it. Know no Fear however I really enjoyed, as well as betrayer (mostly because it featured both WB and UM and a lot of legion-relationship stuff).

[Prot]

Battle for the Abyss was terrible. I mean, it had a few moments, but otherwise I feel Ben Counter went the easy way for describing the legions:

 

SW: Drunk, brawling space vikings.

UM: Roman, Logistics, Orders.

WE: RAAAAGE!

WB: Bad guys without personality. 

 

Did not enjoy it. Know no Fear however I really enjoyed, as well as betrayer (mostly because it featured both WB and UM and a lot of legion-relationship stuff).

 

I'm trying to recall Know No Fear and I'm coming to the realization I never read it! 

 

I agree entirely about Abyss. The stereotypes were strong in that one. I forgot that was a Ben Counter effort.... and I hate to admit this but it really made me think twice about reading his newer stuff, even though I think he wrote a Grey Knights (first one?) novel I enjoyed.

 

I just picked up Spear of Macragge (considering I enjoyed Censure so much, also by Nick Kyme).

[Veteran Sergeant]

 

The story is very good, and I'd say mandatory for an Ultrafan since we're talking about the backbone tactica of the future Imperium.

 

 

Sorry, I cannot let that stand unchallenged.

 

'Rules of Engagement' is another slap into the face of Ultramarine enthusiasts by the hand of Graham "the codex isn't that great" McNeill.

 

Not only are we told that the Codex doctrines were not, in fact, developed and refined by the Ultramarines Legion throughout the Great Crusade and codified during the Scouring, but made up by Guilliman completely from scratch and on the spot during the Heresy, the Codex doctrine is also not described as empirically verified suggestions for best couses of action the commander can consider, but a mystical complete battle plan that is mandated to the user from start to finish, without the user being aware of what that plan is really meant to accomplish. He is given a list of steps to perform, and after following all of those steps without knowing what is going on, they ultimately lead to a victory, to the amazement of the Commanders who previously had thought the suggested steps foolish.

 

And of course McNeill uses this opportunity he is given writing about the Primarch of the Ultramarines to have him personally verify that, no, the Codex really isn't all that great. That rogue Ultramarine Captain who doesn't play by the rules? He was right not to do so. Guilliman himself vindicates him. The rest of the Chapter is doing it wrong.

 

"Mandatory for an Ultrafan" this is not. Unless said Ultrafan already is not all that keen on the Codex Astartes and the Ultramarines' continuing reliance on it.

 

Absolutely.

 

At zero points will the words Graham, McNeill, Ultramarines, and good intersect.

 

Rules of Engagement was precisely what Legatus described. It was the Codex Astartes as written by somebody who has no idea what the Codex Astartes would be like. McNeill's version of the Codex is so astoundingly dumb that it beggars belief. I think something awful happened to him while he was writing Codex Space Marines 4th Edition that he's stuck in some traumatic loop where his only escape is writing revenge fantasies against the Ultramarines. I say this again. Graham McNeill's depictions of the Codex Astartes are astoundingly dumb. I feel like referring to Graham McNeill's Ultramarines as simply "derpy" is insulting to anyone who ever derped. McNeill's Ultramarines behave like no military force ever. Let alone the one described, verbatim, as "the greatest of all Space Marine Chapters" unless they're also involved in a rather Clouseauian level of simple bumbling luck. Like Hive Fleet Behemoth's dominatrix slipping on a banana peel just as the polar fortress is overrun.

 

 

Abnett's Unremembered Novel is also terrible, though not for any fault of it's Ultracontent. Mostly because it is a glorious waste of paper and offers nothing to further the Heresy story, despite trying so hard to pretend it does.

 

What we get is a frenetic continuance of Primarch Pinball™ (look, he's on this planet. Now on this planet. Now halfway across the galaxy!), which leads to an Epic Primarch Fist Fight™ where (once again) Nobody Dies™, and everyone is conveniently split up to Fight Another Day™. I did enjoy the obvious Hamlet reference at the beginning of the novel. But given that Prospero Burns was just Abnett rewriting Michael Chricton's Eaters of the Dead (The 13th Warrior) into 30K with Space Vik-Wolves instead of regular vikings, I guess we shouldn't be surprised. I'm starting to wonder if reading Abnett's novels is a fun game for people like me where I get to spot all the places he's lifted ideas from, or if it's fairly amusing that TBL's most celebrated author has so few original ideas and his target audience just isn't well read enough in the genres he's borrowing from to notice. 

 

Despite the lack of originality, usually Abnett writes a decent yarn with a fair amount of technical proficiency. But ultimately, Unremembered Novel ends where it began (and features more Idiotic Alpha Legion Shenanigans™), with nothing having happened other than the deaths of some irrelevant characters (and the aforementioned Epic Primarch Fist Fight™), and finally Sanguinius arrives. Which of course was what they were talking about in the second chapter. You could quite easily skip this entire novel and pick up wherever the next one begins, and have missed nothing and probably not be even remotely confused.

 

Battle for the Abyss was the first HH novel I read (a buddy gave me a few of them without qualifiers). It was so bad I almost never ready another one. 

[Prot]

It sounds like you should have stopped at Abyss. I guess we all expect something different from the novels. I'm going to just take a shot in the dark and guess there aren't a whole lot books in the HH series you liked, and I'd bet you could save a lot of time and disappointment by simply not reading them. 

[Firepower]

Know No Fear was pretty good in my opinion.  Not great, but good.  The present tense writing took a while to get used to, but after a while the reason became clear enough (the whole recording/cataloging theme).  The depiction of Guilliman was a bit...I dunno, unimpressive?  It spends a little while building him up as a demi-god with a super-computer brain, and then it's just him being angry.

 

I haven't gotten around to Unremembered Empire, but I am looking forward to it.

 

My favorite depiction of Ultramarines wasn't in a book, though.  Oddly enough, it was in the Space Marine video game.  Firstly, they actually said "Guilliman" out loud so I finally figured out how it's pronounced (no luck on "Roboute," though).  Second, they did a good job of portraying an Ultramarine that reveres the Codex Astartes but has a brain of his own (the player's character) and the hidebound literal minded simp that those un-fond of Ultramarines typically believe the Chapter to be (the novice that turns the protagonist over to the Inquisition).

[Prot]

Actually you're the second person to tell me the video game gave them a strong impression of Ultramarines.

I avoided that game, but I could get it pretty cheap now... I sunk a ton of time into all the Dawn of War games.

On the pronunciation of Roboute, I try this out phonetically: Row-Boo-tay. Almost french, but not quite. It is read like that by the reader of one of the audio books and I'm assuming they have a source for that sort of stuff, but yea, it's basically Row+bootay kind of like she has a big Bootay.

I'm still going to get Know No Fear just because it seems to concentrate on the Ultra's and most people seem to have enjoyed it enough. While some of the HH series was hard to get through, I thoroughly enjoy most of it. I guess part of it is I read the very first novels which were so bad... just really bad bolter porn, with repetitive, childish dialogue I guess I just appreciate how far it's come.

I thought during Unremembered Empire it really changed my opinion of Roboute. I saw him previously as this cocky kind of "I am the best and if you disagree with me you're simply wrong" character. And I see to him how paramount the Imperium, and its ideals are (regardless of if the Emperor lives to see it or not).

Codex Astartes wasn't an attempt to immortalize himself. It was a safe manual on how to defeat his brothers or the xenos that threaten the mission.


I appreciated seeing this other side of Guilliman.

In most cases I went from thinking of him as a very self involved to selfless (for a primarch). His flaw of hiding Vulkan, yet calling the Lion out on hiding the NIght Haunter was revealing to me.... as was his deeper flaw.... TRUST.

I'm speaking of when he goes against safe protocol and without even armour on he is going to greet some old Ultramarine comrades back from a long mission only to find these are Alpha-imposters, attempting to take his life. It almost got him killed.

[Firepower]

In Know No Fear, he's already compiling the Codex Astartes.  Not something so specific, but it has scenes of him going through famous quotes or ideals and sticking them together in the loose beginnings of an opus, and some of his Marines mention quotes throughout the book.

[Legatus]

The Space Marine game was a good effort. The production values are high (much better than in the Ultramarines movie), but where it disappointed were the very linear single-player... and the story.

 

The story followed years of McNeill's anti-Codex novels, and thus similarly plays on the notion that the Codex will sometimes simply give bad advice and thus occasionally just has to be ignored. Though funnily enough, in most of the cases where the main protagonists goes against the Codex (under protest of his younger sidekick) it turns out to bite him in the ass. In the end, the player is meant to sympathise with the "unconventional" protagonist who "isn't hidebound by the rules, man", and to detest the sidekick who is a "stickler for the rules". But to me that just meant that the sidekick was a proper example of an Ultramarine, while the main character simply wasn't.

 

(IIRC in an interview a former dev of the game said that if they had continued the series, the main character would eventually have gone rogue and left the Chapter. So, yeah...)

[Gree]

Rules of Enegagment is practically required reading for any Ultramarines fan, if only for the fact that it reveals on how far the Ultramarines have strayed from Guilliman's original intentions regarding the Codex. It's a pretty important fact that really shapes how people see the Ultramarines in publications set in the 41st millennium. In essence all that pride and slavish adherence to the Codex is shown to be dead wrong and the Ultramarines themselves are inherently wrong.

 

That's an important factor I think. A player might start Ultramarines without understanding what they really are about and then wind up learning they got everything wrong. That can certainly be a dealbreaker for some players, and that dealbreaker might be unfortunate if they've already painted up a sizeable force of Ultramarines.

 

Know No Fear was pretty good in my opinion.  Not great, but good.  The present tense writing took a while to get used to, but after a while the reason became clear enough (the whole recording/cataloging theme).  The depiction of Guilliman was a bit...I dunno, unimpressive?  It spends a little while building him up as a demi-god with a super-computer brain, and then it's just him being angry.

 

I haven't gotten around to Unremembered Empire, but I am looking forward to it.

 

My favorite depiction of Ultramarines wasn't in a book, though.  Oddly enough, it was in the Space Marine video game.  Firstly, they actually said "Guilliman" out loud so I finally figured out how it's pronounced (no luck on "Roboute," though).  Second, they did a good job of portraying an Ultramarine that reveres the Codex Astartes but has a brain of his own (the player's character) and the hidebound literal minded simp that those un-fond of Ultramarines typically believe the Chapter to be (the novice that turns the protagonist over to the Inquisition).

 

Indeed, I found Titus to be one of the few likeable and sensible Ultramarines. Even more so when you read Rules of Engagement and realize that Titus was actually upholding Guilliman's original values and intent with the Codex. It's a pity that Sidonus didn't survive the game. (Although I always like to think they have a Dreadnought casket ready for Sidonus.)

[Prot]

Wow I have to say I'm not sure where this is all going. I don't read a lot of graham's ultra stuff. I prefer his iw stuff including hh novels. However I had no idea the ultra fiction was heading on the direction you guys are indicating which seems to suggest guillimen wasn't really writing anything worthwhile in the codex and perhaps that makes Dorn correct towards the end of the heresy. Interesting but somehow very disappointing.

[Legatus]

There are probably a lot of guys who welcome Graham McNeill's revision of the Ultramarines as "making them more interesting". To me, as a very dedicated fan from before McNeill's time, it was all very disappointing, and the continuing shift in their characterisation (helmed mainly by McNeill) actually quite depressing.

 

The complete rewrite of the Ultramarines' history during the Horus Heresy does not exactly help matters. But at least I do not have to blame McNeill for this one.

 

(Side note: people say Graham is a great bloke, and I believe them. It is just a shame that he has such a low opinion of the Codex Astartes.)

[Gree]

Wow I have to say I'm not sure where this is all going. I don't read a lot of graham's ultra stuff. I prefer his iw stuff including hh novels.

Have you posted much in this part of the forum? McNeill's Ultramarines aren't exactly liked by many Ultramarine players here. Although I find that many non-Ultramarine players don't have much of a problem with him. Perhaps because those kinds of players aren't that attached to the Ultramarines.

 

However I had no idea the ultra fiction was heading on the direction you guys are indicating which seems to suggest guillimen wasn't really writing anything worthwhile in the codex and perhaps that makes Dorn correct towards the end of the heresy. Interesting but somehow very disappointing.

I don't think the problem was with Guilliman's work, but rather how people follow it and interpret it. The Codex Astartes is a wonderful guide full of wisdom and valuable information, but it shouldn't be regarded as holy writ. It also shouldn't it take the place of personal initiative or independent thinking. The problem is that the Ultramarines are doing it wrong and following it in the way that Guilliman didn't want it to be followed.

[Veteran Sergeant]

It sounds like you should have stopped at Abyss. I guess we all expect something different from the novels. I'm going to just take a shot in the dark and guess there aren't a whole lot books in the HH series you liked, and I'd bet you could save a lot of time and disappointment by simply not reading them.

I actually enjoyed several of the earlier novels. The original trilogy is solid. I liked Abnett's KNF. And as much as I dislike McNeill's Ultramarines novels, Fulgrim and A Thousand Sons were good. But that's really because Graham McNeill is good at some things (human characters, narrative prose) and terrible at other things (military fiction). Since Fulgrim and ATS were story driven with interesting Remembrancer characters, they overcame his rather middling ability to write believable Space Marines. Since The Ultramarines novels and Vengeful Spirit were action oriented, they were terrible. 

 

The more recent novel quality has fallen off a cliff, but that's because The Black Library is now just milking the cash cow for all it is worth, rather than progressing the story. Thus we get novels like UE which tell no useful story, and novels like Betrayer which take a novella's worth of story and stretch it out by 300 pages.

 

 

Rules of Enegagment is practically required reading for any Ultramarines fan, if only for the fact that it reveals on how far the Ultramarines have strayed from Guilliman's original intentions regarding the Codex. It's a pretty important fact that really shapes how people see the Ultramarines in publications set in the 41st millennium. In essence all that pride and slavish adherence to the Codex is shown to be dead wrong and the Ultramarines themselves are inherently wrong.

 

That's an important factor I think. A player might start Ultramarines without understanding what they really are about and then wind up learning they got everything wrong. That can certainly be a dealbreaker for some players, and that dealbreaker might be unfortunate if they've already painted up a sizeable force of Ultramarines.

Wait, so Rick Priestley's version of the Ultramarines is wrong, but Graham McNeill's version is right.

 

That's an... interesting theory. Not sure it is one grounded in any rational thought process. But, it's interesting, lol.

[Gree]

Wait, so Rick Priestley's version of the Ultramarines is wrong, but Graham McNeill's version is right.

 

That's an... interesting theory. Not sure it is one grounded in any rational thought process. But, it's interesting, lol.

People can regard whatever version they want as right. That's the beauty of the 40k universe. Loose canon and personal interpretation. Graham McNeill's interpretation is as equally valid and canon as any other interpretation a player might make.

 

But that isn't exactly my point. That version isn't going to go away because you don't like it. It's also the version that most people will be familiar with. A player should be made well aware of that part of fluff so they don't go into an army and get the wrong impression. A player should be aware of all aspects of his army otherwise he might get an unpleasant surprise about his chosen force that he doesn't like.

 

I mean sure, the player could ignore that piece of fluff if he wanted to, but as I said, most people won't be ignoring that piece of fluff. Most people in my experience do regard McNeill's Ultramarines rather highly and make references to that. It's an uphill battle going against group consensus, so many people just find it easier to ''go with the flow''.

[Firepower]

Yeah, I quite like the impressions of the Codex in its early history; a book of cataloged wisdom, a treatise on war, but not holy writ. For it to become holy writ is a natural phenomenon in 40k, however, as the time since the heresy has been a long, slow entropy in which facts from the past become distorted, made into myths and legends, and misunderstood. It doesn't make the Ultramarines idiots, it just makes the Ultramarines like everybody else.

Worshiping the Codex is no different from a tech priest sacrificing a chicken to make his toaster work, all because 10,000 years ago some nameless Mechanicum acolyte wrote a line in his journal about how great toast was for chicken sandwiches.

Of course, as a Templar fan, I'm not so attached to the Codex that I'd find this change in the fluff troublesome anyway

Although while most of the Codex is just a collection of good advice, as I understand it the organizational structures laid down in the final version were indeed meant to be binding, sacrosanct law.