Long Night

[HaSY]

Have anyone listen to it yet?

[Apothecary Vaddon]

Yeah, it's okay. Follows Sevatar in a cell on the Invincible Reason.

[Inquisitor Kravin]

Yes. I loved it. Listened to it whilst driving home on a dark and rainy night. Looking forward to listening to it again.

[SteelPaladin]

Any idea on a release date for us peasants?

 

Someday I will join the glorious ranks of Weekender attendees... Someday... 

[HaSY]

Can you give the spoiler and stuffs to expect? Cheers!

[Inquisitor Kravin]

I really urge you to listen to it without spoilers but here's a bit of an intro:

 

Sevatar is held in total darkness in a cell. The only variation is 15 minutes per day when the lights go on and a bucket of nutrient slime is put in his cell. He mocks his jailers with excessive politeness and tries to show humour but in the long night he has no company but his own memories. He is haunted by the voices of the people he has killed. He has given up, his will is broken.

 

The psychological strain has caused the guards around his latent psychic abilities to crack and he makes contact with the spirit of a dead girl (or maybe he's just hallucinating?). As he learns what happened to the girl it reawakens his sense of purpose as a punisher of those who inflict unjust suffering and gives him a renewed determination to escape and once again make an impact on the world.

[DarKnight]

A whole 15 minutes? The First are already getting soft on us....

[Apothecary Vaddon]

Spoilers:

 

Sevatar is held by the DA over Macragge. His latent psychic powers are screwing with the astropaths on the Invincible Reason, they tune him out except for one small girl who eases his pain (somehow). She's contacting him in secret, tells him why she's helping him (because she's a kid, wants to help someone in pain). Girl gets caught communicating, overseer beats her up 'till she gets paralyzed, Sevatar at this point has regained some of his edge and purpose (justice, judgement, punishment) because he was getting attached to this girl for helping him. 

So now he's getting moved to a prison transport when the girl psychically holds his transporters (squad of DA + librarian) in place. He kills the librarian, makes his way to the astropath chambers, kills the overseer for beating the girl, yells about justice and punishment, and surrenders. he's back in his cell at the end.

 

Mainly reinforces that he's a renegade of renegades...LET THE SPECULATION BEGIN.

[Phoebus]

Ah, the the transformation to Khyron has begun...

[HaSY]

Sevatar has never stop being awesome. He is really batman. 

[mc warhammer]

so

 

 

what other examples of sevatar being motivated by justice are there? or is this meant to indicate some sort of redemption in reclaiming lost values (such as they are for him)

 

[Never_born]

I'm with Inquisitor Kravin, this one's brilliant. I'd also say that Jonathan Keeble doing the voice is absolutely amazing - must have been so much fun to record this.

 

My quick, spoiler-free review : http://trackofwords.wordpress.com/2014/11/14/the-long-night-aaron-dembski-bowden-audio-drama/

[Vesper]

Spoilers:

 

Sevatar is held by the DA over Macragge. His latent psychic powers are screwing with the astropaths on the Invincible Reason, they tune him out except for one small girl who eases his pain (somehow). She's contacting him in secret, tells him why she's helping him (because she's a kid, wants to help someone in pain). Girl gets caught communicating, overseer beats her up 'till she gets paralyzed, Sevatar at this point has regained some of his edge and purpose (justice, judgement, punishment) because he was getting attached to this girl for helping him. 

So now he's getting moved to a prison transport when the girl psychically holds his transporters (squad of DA + librarian) in place. He kills the librarian, makes his way to the astropath chambers, kills the overseer for beating the girl, yells about justice and punishment, and surrenders. he's back in his cell at the end.

 

Mainly reinforces that he's a renegade of renegades...LET THE SPECULATION BEGIN.

Sevatar killing Dark Angels makes him a renegade of renegades ? Does that mean that Dark Angels are siding with Horus ? Or does that mean that Horus and folks are renegades of renegades ?

I don't really get why he surrenders, beating up people for no other reason than to enforce an unfair and merciless order is what the Emperor, Primarchs and Space Marines are made for and that is what they do all their life.

 

But maybe I don't understand what happens, 'cause I've not been listening to the thing.

[Wade Garrett]

What I don't understand is how Ruven spends months in isolation, with light so bright it physically pains him and Huron's sorcerers ripping his brain apart, yet he remains defiant, but a few weeks alone in the dark has Sevatar cracking up.

[Phoebus]

Sevatar killing Dark Angels makes him a renegade of renegades ? Does that mean that Dark Angels are siding with Horus ? Or does that mean that Horus and folks are renegades of renegades ?

I don't really get why he surrenders, beating up people for no other reason than to enforce an unfair and merciless order is what the Emperor, Primarchs and Space Marines are made for and that is what they do all their life.

 

But maybe I don't understand what happens, 'cause I've not been listening to the thing.

The Night Lords have turned against the Imperium. This makes them renegades. Sevatar, a Night Lord, has turned against his "brothers". This makes him a renegade... of renegades.

 

What I don't understand is how Ruven spends months in isolation, with light so bright it physically pains him and Huron's sorcerers ripping his brain apart, yet he remains defiant, but a few weeks alone in the dark has Sevatar cracking up.

Well, there are two ways you can look at this:

 

1. Huron's sorcerers are amateur hour compared to the Dark Angels even before they seriously got into torture. Insert winky face here, 'cause I'm not serious about this.

2. This is based on my belief that Sevatar will eventually become Khyron, so take it with a grain of salt. Sevatar isn't cracking up, per se, on account of torture or what have you, but because he's not the utter monster he pretends to be. His connection to ...

 

 

... the little girl and his reaction to her beating, which is informed by a desire to exact justice, ...

 

... shows that while he was the product of a murderous world, there is more to Sevatar than just a Nostraman killer.

[Vesper]

The Night Lords have turned against the Imperium. This makes them renegades. Sevatar, a Night Lord, has turned against his "brothers". This makes him a renegade... of renegades.

By killing Dark Angels ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting...

 

What I don't understand is how Ruven spends months in isolation, with light so bright it physically pains him and Huron's sorcerers ripping his brain apart, yet he remains defiant, but a few weeks alone in the dark has Sevatar cracking up.

Because.

[Inquisitor Kravin]

If you listen to it it will make more sense. I can't explain too much without giving some crucial spoilers.

 

For me this is a crucial step towards Sevatar becoming Khyron. Of course, if we all think it obvious ADB may just change it to surprise us.

 

He says of the Emperor and Horus "I spit on them both" and when asked, "Whose side are you on?" he laughs and says "I'm not on anyone's 'side'."

[Phoebus]

By killing Dark Angels ?

No, by acting in a manner that is informed by a desire to enact justice - as opposed to the capriciously sadistic behavior of his "brothers."

 

Because.

See above. There are other potential reasons, if you choose to consider a certain possible future for this character.

[Vesper]

If you listen to it it will make more sense. I can't explain too much without giving some crucial spoilers.

 

For me this is a crucial step towards Sevatar becoming Khyron. Of course, if we all think it obvious ADB may just change it to surprise us.

 

He says of the Emperor and Horus "I spit on them both" and when asked, "Whose side are you on?" he laughs and says "I'm not on anyone's 'side'."

Isn't it Sevatar's stance from nearly the beggining ? It's also pretty much the Night Lords' stance to many things. Loyalty ain't something they take seriously, to the point of murdering each other.

[Apothecary Vaddon]

Sevatar isn't merely some depraved murder-hungry legionary, and I feel the point of the audiobook is to tell us that. And that's what fuels the speculation. That his entire purpose after realizing that

the girl astropath gets tortured is to kill her torturer for justice, because that's the only thing that matters. And IIRC he mentions something about the true threat being in the void/Chaos something (someone pls confirm this, I'll listen again to the audiobook as well), so...

 

[Piccolon]

Well, we are told that there are two kind of Night Lord. The kind that believe in fear and overkill as a tool with which achieve their goals (justice and punihment of thoose who sin), which are most from Terra and some of the first generations born in Nostramo, and the second, the vicious murder who rejoice into inflicting fear and pain upon their victims, which are the latter generations from Nostramo and certain terran astartes as well. Sevatar was born a little more than a century before the Horus Heresy, more or less at the same time in which Konrad Curze was discovered by the Great Crusade, so its safe to assume that while he is a sadistic murderer who enjoys inflicting pain on thoose he thinks that deserves it, he is not a nihilistic monster.

You can see him as someone similar to Talos or (in a lesser %) Zso Sahaal. They are capable of the worst actions possible, but they also have.... a heart? kind of.

Ah, the the transformation to Khyron has begun...

I really REALLY doubt that will happen. First, because Aaron Dembski-Bowden said so. And second, because I have my own candidate for Khyron, which is a Word Bearer called Narek of the Word. He is much more likely to be so in my opinion, because he is a traitor to both the empire and his own legion, wears the plain grey armor by choice (not the Knight Errant one, but Word Bearer, but also moved from grey to red to go back grey). He also hates what his legion has become under the influence of the chaos gods, despises the power of the warp and actually has a great respect for the loyalists. The only thing against my theory that I am able to see is that he is a reconnaisance marine.

[MasterofMankind]

Well, we are told that there are two kind of Night Lord. The kind that believe in fear and overkill as a tool with which achieve their goals (justice and punihment of thoose who sin), which are most from Terra and some of the first generations born in Nostramo, and the second, the vicious murder who rejoice into inflicting fear and pain upon their victims, which are the latter generations from Nostramo and certain terran astartes as well. Sevatar was born a little more than a century before the Horus Heresy, more or less at the same time in which Konrad Curze was discovered by the Great Crusade, so its safe to assume that while he is a sadistic murderer who enjoys inflicting pain on thoose he thinks that deserves it, he is not a nihilistic monster.

You can see him as someone similar to Talos or (in a lesser %) Zso Sahaal. They are capable of the worst actions possible, but they also have.... a heart? kind of.

Ah, the the transformation to Khyron has begun...

I really REALLY doubt that will happen. First, because Aaron Dembski-Bowden said so. And second, because I have my own candidate for Khyron, which is a Word Bearer called Narek of the Word. He is much more likely to be so in my opinion, because he is a traitor to both the empire and his own legion, wears the plain grey armor by choice (not the Knight Errant one, but Word Bearer, but also moved from grey to red to go back grey). He also hates what his legion has become under the influence of the chaos gods, despises the power of the warp and actually has a great respect for the loyalists. The only thing against my theory that I am able to see is that he is a reconnaisance marine.

Actually, if you read Child of Night, I think the most likely candidate for Khayon will be revealed

It's Fel Zharost, Chief Librarian of the NL and the VIII Legion's representative on the Crusader Host

Also, I just realized I wrote Khyron as Khayon

[Phoebus]

I really REALLY doubt that will happen. First, because Aaron Dembski-Bowden said so.

Has he?  I'm only familiar with his communications on this forum, and where this topic is considered his refusal to say whether or not Sevatar is Khyron is what I considered most telling.

 

And second, because I have my own candidate for Khyron, which is a Word Bearer called Narek of the Word. He is much more likely to be so in my opinion, because he is a traitor to both the empire and his own legion, wears the plain grey armor by choice (not the Knight Errant one, but Word Bearer, but also moved  from grey to red to go back grey). He also hates what his legion has become under the influence of the chaos gods, despises the power of the warp and actually has a great respect for the loyalists. The only thing against my theory that I am able to see is that he is a reconnaisance marine.

Really?  I honestly don't see this for several reasons.

 

A D-B first introduced us to Sevatar in, if I recall correctly, The First Heretic.  He then showed him to us again in May 2011, in his short story "Savage Weapons", from the Age of Darkness anthology.  Sevatar was, unarguably, a hit.

 

Now here is where it gets interesting.  Blood Reaver, the second novel in A D-B's popular Night Lords trilogy, was released almost at the same time as "Savage Weapons", in May of 2011.  In it, we just get a mere mention of Sevatar - a flashback in which Konrad Curze is reminded that Sevatar died "in the war".  In April 2012's Void Stalker, however, Talos is told by Octavia that Mercutian tells tales of how Sevatar did not, in fact, die...  Talos of course dismisses this as fiction, but the fact of the matter is that he himself never witnessed Sevatar's death - nor does he claim to know someone who did.  And then just a month later, in May of 2012, ​The Emperor's Gift was released.  In it, we see the monument to Khyron, who asks only that he be remembered for his treacheries.  His statue depicts the same body language and pose given to Sevatar in "Savage Weapons".

 

Fast forward to September of 2012 and the novella Prince of Crows, and what we see is a Sevatar who is almost certainly mentally disturbed and definitely comfortable with killing to get his way... but who nonetheless questions the ways of his primarch.  And now, we have The Long Night, in which Sevatar acts out of a need for justice - and not just mere vengeance or a desire to kill/hurt for pleasure.

 

Now, one could argue that this is an argument based on coincidence, with only circumstantial ties between Khyron and Sevatar.  Within the setting of Warhammer 40k, there is a incredibly large number of traitors who used spear-like weapons that could potentially be reformed into the nascent Grey Knights.

 

That counter-argument would miss the point, however, which is that all of these descriptions, references, etc., are the work of a single author.  It's not just a case of "how many traitors out there are fighting with a spear", but that A D-B is responsible for both Sevatar and Khyron.  It's a case of Khyron being "created" the same time that Sevatar was being cast in a very curious light - one that put him at odds with his fellow Night Lords - and was being hinted at (about as much as one can be in this setting) as surviving the Heresy.

 

Where Child of Night is concerned, MasterofMankind, ...

 

 

Fel Zharost shares none of the context that surrounds Khyron's monument:  in no way does treachery feature as a central theme of his character.

 

 

If anything, I'd argue that short story gives even more credence to my argument:

 

 

Sevatar, after all, states for the record that he shares in Fel Zharost's hate of the Nostraman Night Lords.

 

[Piccolon]

Has he? I'm only familiar with his communications on this forum, and where this topic is considered his refusal to say whether or not Sevatar is Khyron is what I considered most telling.

And second, because I have my own candidate for Khyron, which is a Word Bearer called Narek of the Word. He is much more likely to be so in my opinion, because he is a traitor to both the empire and his own legion, wears the plain grey armor by choice (not the Knight Errant one, but Word Bearer, but also moved from grey to red to go back grey). He also hates what his legion has become under the influence of the chaos gods, despises the power of the warp and actually has a great respect for the loyalists. The only thing against my theory that I am able to see is that he is a reconnaisance marine.

Really? I honestly don't see this for several reasons.

A D-B first introduced us to Sevatar in, if I recall correctly, The First Heretic. He then showed him to us again in May 2011, in his short story "Savage Weapons", from the Age of Darkness anthology. Sevatar was, unarguably, a hit.

Now here is where it gets interesting. Blood Reaver, the second novel in A D-B's popular Night Lords trilogy, was released almost at the same time as "Savage Weapons", in May of 2011. In it, we just get a mere mention of Sevatar - a flashback in which Konrad Curze is reminded that Sevatar died "in the war". In April 2012's Void Stalker, however, Talos is told by Octavia that Mercutian tells tales of how Sevatar did not, in fact, die... Talos of course dismisses this as fiction, but the fact of the matter is that he himself never witnessed Sevatar's death - nor does he claim to know someone who did. And then just a month later, in May of 2012, ​The Emperor's Gift was released. In it, we see the monument to Khyron, who asks only that he be remembered for his treacheries. His statue depicts the same body language and pose given to Sevatar in "Savage Weapons".

Fast forward to September of 2012 and the novella Prince of Crows, and what we see is a Sevatar who is almost certainly mentally disturbed and definitely comfortable with killing to get his way... but who nonetheless questions the ways of his primarch. And now, we have The Long Night, in which Sevatar acts out of a need for justice - and not just mere vengeance or a desire to kill/hurt for pleasure.

Now, one could argue that this is an argument based on coincidence, with only circumstantial ties between Khyron and Sevatar. Within the setting of Warhammer 40k, there is a incredibly large number of traitors who used spear-like weapons that could potentially be reformed into the nascent Grey Knights.

That counter-argument would miss the point, however, which is that all of these descriptions, references, etc., are the work of a single author. It's not just a case of "how many traitors out there are fighting with a spear", but that A D-B is responsible for both Sevatar and Khyron. It's a case of Khyron being "created" the same time that Sevatar was being cast in a very curious light - one that put him at odds with his fellow Night Lords - and was being hinted at (about as much as one can be in this setting) as surviving the Heresy.

Where Child of Night is concerned, MasterofMankind, ...

Fel Zharost shares none of the context that surrounds Khyron's monument: in no way does treachery feature as a central theme of his character.

If anything, I'd argue that short story gives even more credence to my argument:

Sevatar, after all, states for the record that he shares in Fel Zharost's hate of the Nostraman Night Lords.

Here, ADB stating that is not the fate of Sevatar: https://www.facebook.com/aarondembskibowden/posts/576284959100066

Also, you dont know if Talos did or did not see Sevatar die, just that he states him as dead. In the council between Curze and his lietenaunts he simply is too lost in his madness to remember everything and has to be reminded of Sevatar dead. The pose given to the Grand Master of the grey knights is simply one of indifference, which honestly fits a :cuss ton of characters into the universe, even I could say that includes Narek of the Word (since he feels indifference about everything that doesnt involve his goals, which is to say for example, the killing of a loyalist primarch).

Sevatar questions his primarch methods only about the submission of Nostramo (which, in his opinion, could have been done waaaay better than it was). Sevatar sees Curze as a father that, if flawed, is someone to look up to. He doesnt hate the legion or have identity problems with it, just is disgusted about some of his brothers lack of focus.

Actually, if you read Child of Night, I think the most likely candidate for Khayon will be revealed

It's Fel Zharost, Chief Librarian of the NL and the VIII Legion's representative on the Crusader Host

Also, I just realized I wrote Khyron as Khayon

Not true. Fel Zharost didnt betray the empire (in fact, he had no idea about the whole heresy nor why he was being pursued). Just because he is a NL doesnt make him suitable to be that character.

Actually, if you read Child of Night, I think the most likely candidate for Khayon will be revealed

[Phoebus]

Here, ADB stating that is not the fate of Sevatar: https://www.facebook.com/aarondembskibowden/posts/576284959100066

I have no idea what was being discussed on 1 September, 2013 on the forums.  A D-B certainly doesn't qualify it.  Debates about Sevatar and Khyron being the same guy, on the other hand,  were occurring on this forum at least a year prior to that.  I can speak to that, 'cause I was taking part in them.  ;)

 

And hey, here's the man speaking on the topic months after the FB post in question.  You'll note that what he's willing to go on the record for is far, far from "Sevatar will not become Khyron".

 

Also, you dont know if Talos did or did not see Sevatar die, just that he states him as dead. 

You're right, I don't.  I'm just arguing that, had Talos seen Sevatar die, he might have qualified as much to Octavia rather than dismissing it as a conspiracy.

 

Where your other responses are concerned, see my post again.  You could very easily argue that the in-universe connections I offer 

are too tenuous... but at some point you have to acknowledge that what I outlined above is the work of a single author, and that a lot of these "coincidences" were being written across different short stories, novellas, and novels either practically at the same time or one after the other.  As such, there's kind of a difference between A D-B describing Sevatar and Chyron as using a similar pose and you comparing Khyron and a character written by Nick Kyme a year and change after The Emperor's Gift was released on account of a perceived air of indifference.