Piccolon Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Here, ADB stating that is not the fate of Sevatar: https://www.facebook.com/aarondembskibowden/posts/576284959100066 I have no idea what was being discussed on 1 September, 2013 on the forums. A D-B certainly doesn't qualify it. Debates about Sevatar and Khyron being the same guy, on the other hand, were occurring on this forum at least a year prior to that. I can speak to that, 'cause I was taking part in them. Look at the comments. Its about Sevatar becoming... and in general, its about the grey knights. The talking about how ridiculous some forum ideas are, and Id say that the strongest theory about Sevatar was that one. And hey, here's the man speaking on the topic months after the FB post in question. You'll note that what he's willing to go on the record for is far, far from "Sevatar will not become Khyron". No man, he says that the possibility is a stretch (after that comments that many things are well written stretches), simply as that. I doubt he is giving ground for the idea to root. Also, you dont know if Talos did or did not see Sevatar die, just that he states him as dead. You're right, I don't. I'm just arguing that, had Talos seen Sevatar die, he might have qualified as much to Octavia rather than dismissing it as a conspiracy. He states Sevatar is dead, probably because have reasons to do so. It doesnt have to see him die, just see the KIA list along with the list of progenoid glands taken from the fallen, being a medic of the legion is not like he had not a way to know if someone had or had not died (theory). Where your other responses are concerned, see my post again. You could very easily argue that the in-universe connections I offer are too tenuous... but at some point you have to acknowledge that what I outlined above is the work of a single author, and that a lot of these "coincidences" were being written across different short stories, novellas, and novels either practically at the same time or one after the other. As such, there's kind of a difference between A D-B describing Sevatar and Chyron as using a similar pose and you comparing Khyron and a character written by Nick Kyme a year and change after The Emperor's Gift was released on account of a perceived air of indifference. Your connections, at the very best, hold themselves with a thin hair. Remember that autors feedback each other and Nick Kyme can easily take a character vaguely described by another autor and connect it to one of his own. After all, Narek appears in a novel by Nick Kyme but also in Dan Abnett Unremembered Empire, therefore not making every character possesion of the autor that conceived him. Simply the idea of one of the heads of the Horus Heresy turning into one of the heads of the new empire is absolutely unimaginable, especially since Sevatar is very, very attached to his brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Piccolon, Re: the FB post, that's your assumption based on the comments others made, which again are informed by assumption. Re: the post I cited, I would ask you re-read it. A D-B qualified that he didn't support that theory as that would have "have been coming down way too heavily on one side, and I try to stay balanced." On the one hand, he states he has his own reasons on why this theory might be a stretch, but on the other he states that it is possible that this is his fate and that it wouldn't be a reach, either. Re: Sevatar being killed or not, that's all conjecture. Is it plausible? Of course. Is it also dependant on the idea that the author just coincidentally seeded these ideas in concurrent novels? Also yes. And that's really where our difference of opinion comes down to. I'm not by any means sure what Sevatar's fate. On the other hand, I don't think it's a coincidence that A D-B wrote what he did, when he did. I think his savvy unwillingness to say what's up one way or another is quite telling. Maybe years from now some other character will have been revealed to be Khyron, but I think A D-B will, at the very least admit that what he wrote was at least mean to be a teaser. Anyways, that's the sum of my thoughts on the matter. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 teaser or red herring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 A red herring within a single work of fiction is one thing. A red herring across several novels from would be something new - for me, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piccolon Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Piccolon, Re: the FB post, that's your assumption based on the comments others made, which again are informed by assumption. Re: the post I cited, I would ask you re-read it. A D-B qualified that he didn't support that theory as that would have "have been coming down way too heavily on one side, and I try to stay balanced." On the one hand, he states he has his own reasons on why this theory might be a stretch, but on the other he states that it is possible that this is his fate and that it wouldn't be a reach, either. Re: Sevatar being killed or not, that's all conjecture. Is it plausible? Of course. Is it also dependant on the idea that the author just coincidentally seeded these ideas in concurrent novels? Also yes. And that's really where our difference of opinion comes down to. I'm not by any means sure what Sevatar's fate. On the other hand, I don't think it's a coincidence that A D-B wrote what he did, when he did. I think his savvy unwillingness to say what's up one way or another is quite telling. Maybe years from now some other character will have been revealed to be Khyron, but I think A D-B will, at the very least admit that what he wrote was at least mean to be a teaser. Anyways, that's the sum of my thoughts on the matter. He himself comments on the FB post. And he follows the topic of the comments. In the post from the forum, he obviusly cant say clearly one thing or another because that would be spoiling a work yet to be made. But giving hints that it is a stretch and similars makes me think he is hinting that its not his fate. What I am not sure of is where or when. But I am sure that he is dead. And most likely (like, 99.9999999999999999999999999%) that he dies a Night Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Honestly, I don't know why we're arguing about something like this. Was his comment in the Facebook post "Sevatar does not become a Grey Knight"? No, it wasn't. Has he since made posts on this forum that state that it is possible that becoming a Grey Knight is Sevatar's fate? Yes, he has. :) Am I 100% certain Sevatar becomes Khyron? No. I simply think it's a decent theory because it goes beyond mere hints in the books. A D-B posts here regularly. He frequently discusses topics ranging from the background lore to the motivations of characters, and is obviously aware of this larger debate (if not necessarily this specific thread). I could be completely wrong, but - again - I don't think it's a coincidence that, in two and a half years, he hasn't bothered to endorse or dismiss this theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I really thought he had dismissed it. I hope, HOPE, Sev just goes back to what the Night Lords could have been prior to HH2. A Legion using punishment, extreme and without reservation, to bring justice to a species that had lost its way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 as a punisher of those who inflict unjust suffering Odd...Sevatar has always come across as one who very much enjoys inflicting "unjust" torture for his macabre, sadistic amusement For me this is a crucial step towards Sevatar becoming Khyron. Of course, if we all think it obvious ADB may just change it to surprise us. Sevatar becoming Kyron is about as "obvous" as Argel Tal being killed by Sanguinius It might happen (ADB could do whatever he wants, really)...it might not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tymell Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 What I don't understand is how Ruven spends months in isolation, with light so bright it physically pains him and Huron's sorcerers ripping his brain apart, yet he remains defiant, but a few weeks alone in the dark has Sevatar cracking up. Having now heard it myself, it seems clear within the audio that the reason for him cracking up isn't due to darkness, isolation or torture. It's because of his latent psychic powers, which he tapped into in Prince of Crows to try to save Curze. That power, combined with his own belief that he deserves to die, is what is breaking him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 If Sevatar's fate is to become something as lame as a master of the Grey Knights, I will be ridiculously disappointed. That would be a terrible fate for such a wonderfully broken character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Does anyone really even care about the Grey Knights? I mean really care? They've been dead in the water since their codex came out. Leave them to be buried with the rest of the butchered carcasses of previously decent fluff. If they waste anymore time in the Heresy series on the Knights Errant instead of actually writing about the war itself, I'm going to be livid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Does anyone really even care about the Grey Knights? I mean really care? They've been dead in the water since their codex came out. Leave them to be buried with the rest of the butchered carcasses of previously decent fluff. If they waste anymore time in the Heresy series on the Knights Errant instead of actually writing about the war itself, I'm going to be livid. There's some truth to this, as well. Small fish, small game. Give them some more limelight during the Scouring, and in the meantime, focus on the War, lords and ladies of BL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Does anyone really even care about the Grey Knights? I mean really care? They've been dead in the water since their codex came out. Leave them to be buried with the rest of the butchered carcasses of previously decent fluff. If they waste anymore time in the Heresy series on the Knights Errant instead of actually writing about the war itself, I'm going to be livid. Well we have an entire sub-forum dedicated to them on Bolter and Chainsword, and the Grey Knights have consistently sold well as an army, so yeah, I'd guess that's probably the case. People care about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Lemme clarify it for you. Does anyone care about the Grey Knights in 30k? Does that help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Lemme clarify it for you. Does anyone care about the Grey Knights in 30k? Does that help? I do. Probably others as well, if I might hazard a guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegsmacht Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Knights Errant stories are pretty much the only ones keeping me interested in the setting as well as the Shadow Crusade/Imperium Secundus storylines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Im tired of the bloated, uneven story that advances as slowly as possible. If i WANTED that, i'd stick with 40k. WLK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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