Leonite Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Recently an idea struck me for a type of force: That of a Legion army that has a "Squad of Dreadnoughts", that is 5 or more Dreads. Now, why I have this urging is totally unknown and can't possibly be related to the three Hellbrutes in my Chaos Army, but I thought it would be best to discuss what the positives and Negatives are for each Legion when it comes to a Dread Heavy army. Now, personally, my force will probably be 6-7 ish Dreads at most, because of the fact that Apothecaries will be a part of the force. I will also be thinking fluffwise as well. To start off, lets address what everyone has: the Forge Lord Consul. He can stay back with the fire support Dreads and provide repairs. You can do that with Techmarines admittedly but that means sacrificing another Dreadnought slot (in which case what's the point?) or the Apothecaries (which means your troops are more vulnerable.) In addition, and correct me if I'm wrong, the Forge Lord can take a bike or Jetbike, allowing him to zoom around the field effecting field repairs on the more forward marching Dreads.Taking two might be necessary in larger games though Techmarines and Apothecaries: If you want to be reckless, in a standard 40K FOC, you could try going for none of these and just take a Forge Lord. If you're playing with the Legion FOC you might prefer to play with either a second Forge Lord (see above) or have that fourth slot take up the Techmarines... but then there's a second issue. Are your troops/foot sloggers going to be completely disposable, or are you trying to make them tough? Personally I love the idea of taking Apothecaries for this sort of army to make everything tough. Now, onto a couple of things I'd like to get out of the way quickly Legion wise. Word Bearers: You could, but why would you want to? Some of the better stuff for Bearers requires alliances with Daemons (in which case dreads are only useful at higher points), using up elite slots (See the Technmarine argument) or takes up a HQ slot (Making you lose a Forge Lord or Primus Medicae, if your core happens to be around something other than footsloggers, or a Praetor if you also wanted a RoW). So, B&C. Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299312-who-has-the-best-possible-dreadnought-focused-force/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phalanx Warder Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 I want to really like your idea and I do love to see my own 4 Contemptors take the field (I only field all them in games were I need them to push up my points) they are just so dang expensive! They always attract the most attention from my enemy and always die so its a good thing that they are not the cornerstone of my force. I now use them to create a distraction for the rest of my force. The Contemptor hate may only be in my current meta but I am willing to bet that I am not alone in this regard. My stream of conciseness may not of been much help for your argument but hope it helps you see some of the drawbacks to the beloved Dreadnoughts! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299312-who-has-the-best-possible-dreadnought-focused-force/#findComment-3863236 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonite Posted November 15, 2014 Author Share Posted November 15, 2014 Oh, I know the Drawbacks. I happen to run a CSM army with three Hellbrutes (among other vehicles). They always seem to be the biggest target... when my Land Raider isn't on the field of course. At the same time, there are forces that can mitigate this. The Salamander HQ Dreadnought, for example, is designed to be practically indestructible. An Iron Hands Army could take an Iron Father with the Orbital Assualt Rite (Which just makes them even more dangerous to your opponent really. Forget fliers, 6+ Deep Striking Dreadnoughts) Taking other distractions could help too. (Death Star units, Land Raiders, anything that looks more scary than several Dreads) At the same time I can see an all dread list having problems. Tarpits, for one, like a squad of Nids under Synapse or a full unit of Orks. That is where the troops come in in my own personal plan (units of 15 plus each will make even Orks hesitate) but that and the fact that Mortis Dreads come separately from the Talons means that you either arm yourself to be able to shoot down fliers (risking it all on a single Dread if you're using the Standard FOC and taking Apoths or Techs) or rely on superior numbers of Dreads to do that for you. (Assault Cannons come to mind) Mind you, Forge Lord and Apoths? Have a bit of a skull motif and call it the Dead Company of <Insert Grand Company and Legion here>. Heck, if you have the points, the Chaplain in a unit of Bolt Pistol and CCW users could make a great distraction/alternate threat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299312-who-has-the-best-possible-dreadnought-focused-force/#findComment-3863259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 A point for the idea of a Dreadnought heavy list is that Contemptors have a pretty wide and varied arsenal. Sure this is going to cost you out the wazoo but, lets ignore that for the purposes of this thread So, assuming 3 talons of 3 (9 dreads), you could give each group of three specific roles to fulfill: •The first 3 could be close range hunter-killer unit. So, depending on what you expect to face/have the points for, you could give one 2DCCW with 2 Heavy Flamers, another with 2DCCW with 2 Plasma Blasters and the last with Melta Guns (if you expect to face other dreadnoughts, this wouldnt be bad since they dont have armored ceramite). So, in a single talon, you have answers to most threats: Hordes / Infantry, 2+ armor / Heavy Infantry and Light Vehicles. I'd also give these Havoc Launchers. •Next three would be mid range. So one ranged weapon and one DCCW. Again, these can be specialised. The infantry one would have a Volkite Culverin and a DCCW with Heavy Flamer. You have Plasma Cannons, which can be doubled-up on and all the other standard armament usually discussed about when thinking about Contemptor-Mortis'. So, again you have the ability to go jack of all trades or specialize. Havoc Launchers here too, •The last three I'd use as long ranged heavy fire support. The obvious answer could be all 3 with Heavy Conversion Beamers and another Weapon, maybe not a DCCW. A kheres could be a good idea in the event of something getting close and the Conversion beamer being a suboptimal choice to fire with. This is only viable if your table is long/wide enough for you to use the Conversion Beamers to full effect. If not, well you have a pretty large arsenal to choose from. So, done like this, it makes your opponent have varying threats of roughly equal worth that are all found at different ranges. He could try to ignore the Melee focused and gun for the mid or long ranged but, that would leave him open to all three. They could try to LoS the ranged ones but that means the rest of your force will have an easier time of getting around. Et Cetera. As for which Legion is the best, Iron Hands with Ferrus would be up there due to the buffs he gives as would the Iron Warriors with Perturabo, iirc. Salamanders with Vulkan could also be good. The same Legions, I think, would also be the most effective Dreadnought heavy legions without their Primarchs present. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299312-who-has-the-best-possible-dreadnought-focused-force/#findComment-3863487 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Run salamanders with the two special characters: The super chaplain who unlocks a dread talon to take an HQ slot and/or the dreadnought character with the iron dragon sarcophagus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299312-who-has-the-best-possible-dreadnought-focused-force/#findComment-3863505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Run salamanders with the two special characters: The super chaplain who unlocks a dread talon to take an HQ slot and/or the dreadnought character with the iron dragon sarcophagus Yes. My God, yes. I would love to see this happen. Time, meow. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299312-who-has-the-best-possible-dreadnought-focused-force/#findComment-3863546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Run salamanders with the two special characters: The super chaplain who unlocks a dread talon to take an HQ slot and/or the dreadnought character with the iron dragon sarcophagus Yes. My God, yes. I would love to see this happen. Time, meow. I was confused at first who this was, but then I remembered you were the artist formally known as 1000heathens. But yes, Nymus Rhytan leading the ancients of the chapter would be awesome Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299312-who-has-the-best-possible-dreadnought-focused-force/#findComment-3863570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonite Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 Run salamanders with the two special characters: The super chaplain who unlocks a dread talon to take an HQ slot and/or the dreadnought character with the iron dragon sarcophagus Yes. My God, yes. I would love to see this happen. Time, meow. I was confused at first who this was, but then I remembered you were the artist formally known as 1000heathens. But yes, Nymus Rhytan leading the ancients of the chapter would be awesome At least, in larger games. You couldn't take him and the Dread HQ in a regular FoC and take advantage of the Dreads as HQ thing. Although taking him does essentially trade away the Forge Lord problem for techmarines or sheer weight of numbers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299312-who-has-the-best-possible-dreadnought-focused-force/#findComment-3863585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathias Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Have you considered Imperial Fists? I just have the picture in my head of a wall of Breacher Marines (or Phalanx, whichever) backed by Dreadnaughts. Does the IF bolter rule work with Naught heavy bolters as well? If so that'd be something to consider for sure. Another point to make would be Mortis Dreadnaughts. The usual 2x Kheres Assault cannons works wonders, but a conversion beamer/kheres would be bad either. Just my 2 cents! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299312-who-has-the-best-possible-dreadnought-focused-force/#findComment-3863590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Sadly, Imperial Fists rules only work on units with Infantry designation and are affected by Legion Astartes: Imperial Fists. So, not dreadnoughts And Mortis dreadnoughts are only 1 per slot so, you could run one with the same loadout just no Skyfire/interceptor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299312-who-has-the-best-possible-dreadnought-focused-force/#findComment-3863598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathias Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Nooooooo! Well it'd be ridiculous if it were the case haha. I only suggest contemptors to try and stay true to the all Naughts, while giving you viable ways to deal with air (which will cause a problem for this idea). So the two main hurdles, I think, would be tarpits and air units. Heavy flamer DCCWs and Mortis Naughts are options for sure, in addition to whatever infantry you decide to field alongside the Naughts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299312-who-has-the-best-possible-dreadnought-focused-force/#findComment-3863602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonite Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 Honestly I see Air units as a problem anyone with enough shots can deal with personally. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299312-who-has-the-best-possible-dreadnought-focused-force/#findComment-3863608 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Run salamanders with the two special characters: The super chaplain who unlocks a dread talon to take an HQ slot and/or the dreadnought character with the iron dragon sarcophagus Yes. My God, yes. I would love to see this happen. Time, meow. I was confused at first who this was, but then I remembered you were the artist formally known as 1000heathens. But yes, Nymus Rhytan leading the ancients of the chapter would be awesome At least, in larger games. You couldn't take him and the Dread HQ in a regular FoC and take advantage of the Dreads as HQ thing. Although taking him does essentially trade away the Forge Lord problem for techmarines or sheer weight of numbers. AoD FoC (standard for 30k) has 3 HQ slots Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299312-who-has-the-best-possible-dreadnought-focused-force/#findComment-3863641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonite Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 And while that is true, I personally will be using 40K for the "Objective Secured" Advantadge Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299312-who-has-the-best-possible-dreadnought-focused-force/#findComment-3863650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Who needs Obsec when you have Superior Firepower to null that advantage :p? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299312-who-has-the-best-possible-dreadnought-focused-force/#findComment-3863652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonite Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 Dominance through superior walking fire power Battle Brother! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299312-who-has-the-best-possible-dreadnought-focused-force/#findComment-3863669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I mean, having a 10-20 man squad that will stick to an objective is nice. Not so much when its eating Conversion Beamers S10 Ap1 Large Blasts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299312-who-has-the-best-possible-dreadnought-focused-force/#findComment-3863675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonite Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 Nothing truer could be said against any army Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299312-who-has-the-best-possible-dreadnought-focused-force/#findComment-3863724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phalanx Warder Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Have you considered Imperial Fists? I just have the picture in my head of a wall of Breacher Marines (or Phalanx, whichever) backed by Dreadnaughts. Does the IF bolter rule work with Naught heavy bolters as well? If so that'd be something to consider for sure. Another point to make would be Mortis Dreadnaughts. The usual 2x Kheres Assault cannons works wonders, but a conversion beamer/kheres would be bad either. Just my 2 cents! Like this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299312-who-has-the-best-possible-dreadnought-focused-force/#findComment-3863839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dono1979 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 If you are going to use 40K, you may as well use the Siege Assault Vanguard list which allows you to take Dreadnought Talons AS troop choices as well as elites. In any case I would drop the Apothecaries, its obvious that the force wasnt using them in the first, thats why they have all of these guys entombed in Dreads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299312-who-has-the-best-possible-dreadnought-focused-force/#findComment-3864110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonite Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 I'd probably would go for the Siege Vanguard List if it wasn't for the Seige Objective and the fact that I like HH stuff. EDIT: And the fact that I'm already resisting the urge to make a Blood Ravens Army that clashes with my HH mood. Blame me getting back into Dawn of War 2 recently on that XD Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299312-who-has-the-best-possible-dreadnought-focused-force/#findComment-3864327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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