Ultramarines ~4000pts +updated+

[apologist]

Based around the theme of the Calth atrocity, I've got the core of an army completed. I'd like some ideas on where I ought to expand, in order to create a more rounded, adaptable force that'll be fun to play with and against. 

 

Given the theme, I'm purposely restricting the number of vehicles; but I'd be quite happy to entertain almost any suggestions on what to add, as the army will also be used for more general gaming. We tend to play with a scenario-led/Rogue-Trader style cooperative mindset, so I'm not particularly fussed about 'competitiveness'. That said, I'd like to get the flexible, adaptable nature of the army across, so I'd like some way of dealing with any target that turns up, even if it's not optimal – e.g. I'd like at least one unit that can deal with specific target types like tanks, infantry, flyers, monstrous creatures etc.

 

So, here's what's done, and thus will be included:

 

3 x 20 man Legion Tactical Squads with vexillas and nuncio-voxes.

1 x 10 man Legion Breach Squad

1 x Land Raider Proteus

2 x Contemptors; one with multimelta, one with plasma cannon

1 x Rhino

1 x Techmarine

1 x Apothecary

1 x Praetor with power spear

1 x 3 man Legion Honour Guard

 

That tots up to between 1250 and 1750pts. Using that core as a basis, how would you expand this to a rounded 2500pt+ army? 

[Slips]

Well, lets jump right in!

 

-Contemptor Mortis. Weaponry is up to you. Take 2 at most since each one is a single elites slot.

-Jet Bikes. Whats not to love? Can also be made into a nasty unit if you want to. (I've made some posts about it here and there :P)

-Terminators. Theyre so much better in 30k (imo, due to how flexible they are).

-Sicarian. Good all round unit. 1 is usually enough.

-Rapier Batteries. Cheap solutions to a variety of problems though not as durable.

-More Apothecaries / Primus Medicae. FNP FOR EVERYBODY! Also makes sense that a large legion would have a large apothecarion....Give the PM and Jetbike and hoooo boy will they bring the pain!

 

Flyers like the Fire Raptor and Storm Eagle are also good units but I'm loathe to recommend them due to the theme you're going for. They could be made to work, however.

 

-A Spartan would be nice but this finds itself in the same position as the FR and SE above.

 

-Tactical/Heavy Support Squads. Flexible units that all bring the same special weapons. Want 120 volkite shots? Take 3 10man Volkite Culverin Squads. PEW PEW. Squad with Missile Launchers with Flakk also makes for decent anti-air if you're struggling with the Elites Slot.

 

Maybe bring in some Mechanicum Units too? Might make things interesting. Thanatars and Castellax are nothing to scoff at.

[Still Standing]

You have lots of boots on the ground, but very little firepower. I would suggest some Heavy Support and Tactical Support squads. I am a big fan of Autocannons and Volkite Culverin for Heavy Sp, and both smaller types of Volkite for Tactical Sp.

 

If you go that route, which I have, you've got to look to other routes of anti-armour. As Slipstreams suggests, Rapiers are fantastic. I run 3 with Laser Destroyers. Another solid form of anti-tank is the Siege Breaker Consul, which will give Tank Hunter to your Autocannons, which wrecks anything up to Imperial Knights.

 

I think you need more Apothecaries. One in each of those Tactical Squads, at a minimum.

 

Finally, stop being such a prude, get those Librarians out!

[apologist]

Thanks for the ideas; how does this look as a starting point? It's a 3,765pts at the mo; with approximately 2000pts field-ready so far. 

 

+++

 

HQ
Mercian (Legion Praetor)
Gladius Invicus Archaeotech pistol; Chainsword; Melta-bombs; Digital lasers; Iron halo; Frag and krak grenades; Artificer armor

Legion Command Squad
Veterans with Bolt pistols; 2× Power sword; Frag and krak grenades; Artificer armor
Legion Standard Bearer
Bolt pistol; Chainsword; Artificer armor; Frag and krak grenades; Legion Standard

Ventanus (Legion Centurion)
Bolt pistol; Power sword; Refractor field; Frag and krak grenades; Artificer armor

Pullo (Legion Master of Signal)
Bolt pistol; Chainsword; Refractor field; Frag and krak grenades; Artificer armor; Nuncio-vox; Cognis-signum

Elites
Contemptor Pattern Talon
Legion Contemptor Dreadnought
Dreadnought close combat weapon (Twin-linked bolter); Multi-melta; Searchlight; Smoke launchers
Legion Contemptor Dreadnought
Dreadnought close combat weapon (Twin-linked bolter); Plasma cannon; Searchlight; Smoke launchers

Veteran squad
Veteran tactics: Sniper

Bolter; 9× Bolt pistol; 9× Chainsword; Power armor; Frak and krak grenades; 
Legion Veteran Sergeant: Bolter; Bolt pistol; Power sword; Artificer armor; Frag and krak grenades
Legion Rhino Armored Carrier: Combi-bolter; Searchlight; Smoke launcher

3 Legion Rapier Weapons Battery: 3× Laser destroyer array; Bolt pistol; Power armor; Frak- and krak grenades

3 Legion Rapier Weapons Battery: 3× Graviton gun; Bolt pistol; Power armor; Frak- and krak grenades

Troops 

Legionary squad

19 Legionnaires: 19× Bolter; 19× Bolt Pistol; 19× Additional Close Combat Weapon; Nuncio-Vox; Legion Vexilla; Power Armor; Frak- and Krak grenades
Legion Tactical Sergeant: Plasma pistol; Additional close combat weapon; Bolt pistol; Frak- and krak grenades; Artificer armor

 

Legionary squad
19 Legionnaires: 19× Bolter; 19× Bolt Pistol; 19× Additional Close Combat Weapon; Nuncio-Vox; Legion Vexilla; Power Armor; Frak- and Krak grenades
Legion Tactical Sergeant
Bolter; Additional close combat weapon; Bolt pistol; Frak- and krak grenades; Artificer armor

 

Legionary squad
19 Legionnaires: 19× Bolter; 19× Bolt Pistol; 19× Additional Close Combat Weapon; Nuncio-Vox; Legion Vexilla; Power Armor; Frak- and Krak grenades
Legion Tactical Sergeant: Power maul; Additional close combat weapon; Bolt pistol; Frak- and krak grenades; Artificer armor

 

Breacher squad
9 Breacher Legionnaires: 9× Bolter; 9× Bolt Pistol; Hardened Power Armor; Frak- and Krak grenades; Boarding shield
Legion Sergeant: Power sword; Bolt pistol; Frak- and krak grenades; HardenedArtificer armor

 

Assault squad
19 Assault Legionnaires: 17× Chainsword; 2× Power axe; 17× Bolt pistol; 2× Plasma pistol; Frak- and krak grenades; Power Armor; Jump pack
Legion Assault Sergeant: Power fist; Bolt pistol; Artificer armor; Frak- and krak grenades; Jump pack

Heavy Support
Legion Land Raider Battle Squadron
Legion Land Raider Proteus: Two sponson-mounted twin-linked lascannon; Smoke launchers; Machine Spirit; Search light
Vehicle (Tank)

 

Heavy squad: 

4 Heavy Legionnaires: Heavy bolter; Bolt pistol; Power armor; Frag and krak grenades
Legion Space Marine Sergeant: Heavy bolter; Bolt pistol; Artificer armor; Augury scanner; Frag and krak grenades

Heavy squad:
4 Heavy Legionnaires:Volkite Culverin; Bolt pistol; Power armor; Frag and krak grenades
Legion Space Marine Sergeant: Volkite Culverin; Bolt pistol; Power armor; Augury scanner; Frag and krak grenades
 

[Emperors Teeth]

You should magnetise your Contemptor arms so you can switch up to tast and between regular and Mortis. That new Deredeo Dreadnought screams Ultramarines to me for some reason. Had you considered one kf those to mix up the types a bit and give the overused Mortis a rest?

[1ncarnadine]

I'd upgrade the Centurion to something (anything) and then maybe expand the breacher and heavy support squads. Especially the Culverin squad, those weapons are deadly. If you're using the heavy support squads for anti-air with the augury scanners, maybe swap the heavy bolters for autocannons or missile launchers with flakk? Missile launchers strike me as a very Ultramarines weapon since they can deal with so many target types with reasonable effectiveness.

 

Along the same lines, you can crunch the rapier batteries into one multi-purpose battery of quad mortars. In 30k these can fire frag and shatter shells, and the latter are often considered more effective than the laser destroyers at anti-tank due to many more shots and sunder. If you did this and freed an elite slot it'd be nice to take apothecaries for your 3 tac blobs, providing an enormous survivability boost and protecting that valuable smurf seed.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Thanks for the ideas; how does this look as a starting point? It's a 3,765pts at the mo; with approximately 2000pts field-ready so far. 

 

+++

 

HQ

Mercian (Legion Praetor)

Gladius Invicus Archaeotech pistol; Chainsword; Melta-bombs; Digital lasers; Iron halo; Frag and krak grenades; Artificer armor

The Gladius removes the bonuses from Shields - an awesome rule, but unless you find yourself up against a great deal of Boarding Shield marines, it's a distinctly poor choice - Rending isn't a fantastic reliance to take on 2+ Saves with either, so I wouldn't send it into Firedrakes/Imperial Fist "Assault" Terminators with Sigil pattern Storm Shields - they'd still outclass you, despite the nifty -1 or -2 to their Invulnerable save. Have you considered instead using him as a Defensive Asset? Without taking Terminator Armour, you have, IMHO, the cheapest defensive asset of the Boarding Shield. Not only do you have a 5++ Save, you also get Defensive Grenades, which is anywhere from -5 to -40 attacks coming at your unit on an assault.

 

Legion Command Squad

Veterans with Bolt pistols; 2× Power sword; Frag and krak grenades; Artificer armor

Legion Standard Bearer

Bolt pistol; Chainsword; Artificer armor; Frag and krak grenades; Legion Standard

In here, I'd personally consider picking up at least a Power Axe and a Combat Shield to take on enemy sergeants who try to challenge you out. After all the purpose of the command squad's chosen is to be there to prevent your expensive Praetor from being challenged out. That way, the "challenge" sergeant has to cope with a 5++ and an AP2 axe at WS5.

 

Ventanus (Legion Centurion)

Bolt pistol; Power sword; Refractor field; Frag and krak grenades; Artificer armor

I'm not entirely sure on this guys purpose in this list, other than for sheer fluffiness. A 2+/5++ is okay for tanking, but honestly, a Command Squad does alright if his purpose is to tank. Sure, it's another 4/5 WS5 AP3 attacks on the charge, but you should really have enough in a 30k list for dealing with AP3 IMHO without needing an 85pt tax - for that same cost, you can pick up 2 more Veterans for the Command Squad, and give them both power weapons, (which gives you another 6-8 attacks on the charge), and still have points left for Combat Shields, or Meltabombs.

 

Pullo (Legion Master of Signal)

Bolt pistol; Chainsword; Refractor field; Frag and krak grenades; Artificer armor; Nuncio-vox; Cognis-signum

Can't complain about Masters of Signal overmuch. Their purpose is the Cognis, Nuncio and an Orbital Bombardment. Only thing I'd really question is whether the Artificer Armour is necessary. It's a bloat piece of equipment if you're not going to be having him challenging enemies in CC or running on his lonesome.

 

Elites

Contemptor Pattern Talon

Legion Contemptor Dreadnought

Dreadnought close combat weapon (Twin-linked bolter); Multi-melta; Searchlight; Smoke launchers

Legion Contemptor Dreadnought

Dreadnought close combat weapon (Twin-linked bolter); Plasma cannon; Searchlight; Smoke launchers

I find the TL'd Bolter useless, whereas a Graviton Gun can help take off Hull points. The Grav-guns get expensive though, but Plasma Cannon's and Multi-meltas are okay (provided you find targets which aren't Armoured Ceramite). 

 

Veteran squad

Veteran tactics: Sniper

Bolter; 9× Bolt pistol; 9× Chainsword; Power armor; Frak and krak grenades; 

Legion Veteran Sergeant: Bolter; Bolt pistol; Power sword; Artificer armor; Frag and krak grenades

Legion Rhino Armored Carrier: Combi-bolter; Searchlight; Smoke launcher

If going for Artificer Armour, you're expecting to be challenging out, IMHO - my standard list building procedure for said target is to take a Power Axe instead for the AP2 to take on other targets. If they have a Sword and go first, well - you have a 2+ Save so should survive. In return, you attack, and have AP2 - if they have Artificer Armour, so what? If they have Power Armour, so what? With the updates to Sniper in the 7th edition FAQ/Errata, Melta's get back some of their usefulness, although Volkites with their higher potential rate of fire do a nice little bit of damage.

3 Legion Rapier Weapons Battery: 3× Laser destroyer array; Bolt pistol; Power armor; Frak- and krak grenades

I like Rapiers. Ordnance AP1 is surprisingly effective I find - the biggest killer is the 36" and requiring line of sight. Many advise that you should take Quad Mortars - they have tactical advantage in being able to choose whether to fire AT or AI rounds, and their AI rounds are disgustingly good with Nuncio voxes scattered around.

 

3 Legion Rapier Weapons Battery: 3× Graviton gun; Bolt pistol; Power armor; Frak- and krak grenades

I like Graviton Guns. I don't think there's a list which can't benefit from more Graviton Guns. The difficult and dangerous terrain blobs rack up there fair share of kills - not enough to rely on, but enough that they're worthwhile considering.

Troops 

Legionary squad

19 Legionnaires: 19× Bolter; 19× Bolt Pistol; 19× Additional Close Combat Weapon; Nuncio-Vox; Legion Vexilla; Power Armor; Frak- and Krak grenades

Legion Tactical Sergeant: Plasma pistol; Additional close combat weapon; Bolt pistol; Frak- and krak grenades; Artificer armor

Personally, not sold on the Plasma pistol. Being in combat, it's main use is providing +1 attack, and giving you perhaps a couple of kills against MEQ's as you charge in. Not sold on the Nuncio Vox - LoS is hard to get when you're stuck in CC with similarly sized squads. I'm not yet sold on the arguments between Bolter and Bolt Pistol, as some people believe that being dedicated is better as it saves you points - but at this level, it's only 1% of your list. In short, your Sergeant has the same issue - if he's intending to be in CC, then Artificer Armour and Power Axe I find are the ways to go. If he's not... well, there's at least 10, if not 25points that can be saved there, and spent instead on a combi-plasma or something.

 

Legionary squad

19 Legionnaires: 19× Bolter; 19× Bolt Pistol; 19× Additional Close Combat Weapon; Nuncio-Vox; Legion Vexilla; Power Armor; Frak- and Krak grenades

Legion Tactical Sergeant

Bolter; Additional close combat weapon; Bolt pistol; Frak- and krak grenades; Artificer armor

As above.

 

Legionary squad

19 Legionnaires: 19× Bolter; 19× Bolt Pistol; 19× Additional Close Combat Weapon; Nuncio-Vox; Legion Vexilla; Power Armor; Frak- and Krak grenades

Legion Tactical Sergeant: Power maul; Additional close combat weapon; Bolt pistol; Frak- and krak grenades; Artificer armor

Power Mauls I'm not sold on for fighting against Primarily legion forces (Recon Squads are the only 4+ Saves in the list - and as they're little more than outflanking Meltabomb delivery vehicles or awesome looking Sniper Squads, that's not really a major issue. With more and more Solar Auxilia getting released though, the Maul might be a bit better - especially as they're equipped with Power Axes rather than swords for the most part. This makes mauls more useful than they were (personally, I saw them limited to Gal Vorbak in the past, whose 5 S7 Rending CC attacks on the charge outweighed their weakness in the MEQ meta. But, I think that's changing slightly.

 

Breacher squad

9 Breacher Legionnaires: 9× Bolter; 9× Bolt Pistol; Hardened Power Armor; Frak- and Krak grenades; Boarding shield

Legion Sergeant: Power sword; Bolt pistol; Frak- and krak grenades; HardenedArtificer armor

These guys are a "poor" man's Terminator counter unit (for the 5++ and defensive grenades) - and so I find the axe to be the best weapon here in case that happens. They also have access to special weapons - including the Graviton Guns. As a Heavy Weapon, they're less useful on the attack, and can't be fired as Snap Shots due to Blast, but on the defensive and with an Augury Scanner (i.e Master of Signal) you get to fire the Graviton Guns as Interceptor which makes things like Drop Pod Assault a risky tactic as well.

 

Assault squad

19 Assault Legionnaires: 17× Chainsword; 2× Power axe; 17× Bolt pistol; 2× Plasma pistol; Frak- and krak grenades; Power Armor; Jump pack

Legion Assault Sergeant: Power fist; Bolt pistol; Artificer armor; Frak- and krak grenades; Jump pack

I'm not yet sold on Assault Squads. I find them very unwieldly, and comparatively slow - a 12" Move isn't that much more than a 6+d6" run on CC units, while putting your Tactical Squads with BP+CCW in an assault transport gets them there at the same time. In essence, you're paying for a Hammer of Wrath attack that isn't as good as it's meant to be.

 

Heavy Support

Legion Land Raider Battle Squadron

Legion Land Raider Proteus: Two sponson-mounted twin-linked lascannon; Smoke launchers; Machine Spirit; Search light

Vehicle (Tank)

I'd take one of these guys with an Explorator Array - not only do you get to mess with enemy reserves, but you get to Scout, which is essentially ensuring that you get to hit your chosen enemy tanks side armour.

 

Heavy squad: 

4 Heavy Legionnaires: Heavy bolter; Bolt pistol; Power armor; Frag and krak grenades

Legion Space Marine Sergeant: Heavy bolter; Bolt pistol; Artificer armor; Augury scanner; Frag and krak grenades

As said above in regards to Power Mauls, AP4 is kind of trouble, but 12 S5 AP4 shots makes a mincemeat of Solar Auxilia. Usual "complaints" re Sergeant and Artificer Armour.

 

Heavy squad:

4 Heavy Legionnaires:Volkite Culverin; Bolt pistol; Power armor; Frag and krak grenades

Legion Space Marine Sergeant: Volkite Culverin; Bolt pistol; Power armor; Augury scanner; Frag and krak grenades

Death by Volkite is a thing, but I always think that some people overestimate how powerful it is in 30K 16 shots results in 10-11 hits, which results in 8-9 wounds. Assuming a 3+ Save, that's a total of 2-3 wounds - causing perhaps an additional wound. Against 4+ Saves, that's 4-5 dead, and another 1-2 killed by Deflagrate. I tend to find that such equipped Heavy Weapon squads are at the weak end of the meta with people overestimating how good it is. Until a 5+ Save Meta comes out, expensive S6 AP5 non-rending weapons aren't really that effective, I personally feel, especially when you're spending the best part of 175points on that - for only a little more you can pick up a Mortis with a pair of Kheres Assault Dreadnoughts - whose 12 S6 shots are only a little less effective - but has the benefit of being able to target aircraft but the AP4 makes Solar Auxilia cry.

 

That all said, I feel you have a lot of wasted points - the number of Nuncio Voxes you have I think is a little bit wasted considering the amount of Ordnance Barrage you have (i.e 1d3 shots) and no Deep Strikers, apart from an assault marines unit, which doesn't really want to be stuck in their own lines, all that Artificer Armour which is going to be near useless due to majority saves, etc.

 

You can save a lot of points there. Rather than giving you suggestions, there are probably a decent number of points you can strip there until you're left with a bare bones - at least 100 points, if not more.

 

Thinking about it, the list lacks a lot of AT as well as AA - an AP3 Orbital Barrage, 4 TL Lascannon, a Multimelta, 2 Dreadnought Powers fists, 3 Laser Destroyers, 3 Graviton Cannons and a single Powerfist are not exactly overwhelming for AT, and AA is none existent - particularly when this is the level when people can start to consider perhaps using the Onslaught FoC and bringing two, or even 3 Lords of War choices (Perturabo with Forgebreaker, plus The Tormentor comes in at 990points and one FoC - a viable option at 4K points, and a second Lord of War such as fully kitted out Thunderhawk, and still have enough points left for 2015pts of Legiones Astartes - which including Perturabo probably consists of a Land Raider Proteus with Explorator Augury Web, and 1750pts of Pride of the Legion Terminators, which can Deep Strike on the First Turn.

 

I don't want to be a debby downer on a clearly awesome collection of models, but it's just a shame that that many models don't work out decently (110+ Marines, 2 Dreadnoughts, supporting Artillery, and a pair of Land Raiders in 40K would be world saving force, normally).