Destroyers and the XIII Legion

[Relict]

With my 3500-point strong World Eaters force more than half way finished (all infantry components are built and painted, the vehicles are next), I'm now considering building an Ultramarines force to stand against them.

This force will be built differently - whereas I built the World Eaters in about a year's time (pretty rushed, considering the size of the force) to function as a competent tabletop army, the Ultramarines force will be built much more slowly, with a heavier emphasis on the quality of painting (my World Eaters are nothing to scoff at paint-wise, but I want my Ultramarines to look better) and fluff.

I don't have an army list right now, but I have some rough ideas floating around in my head and some spare models left over from my World Eaters that I want to use.

For models, I have:

- 1 FW Legion Praetor in Mark III armor

- 1 FW Legion Mark IV command set (1 Centurion, 1 standard bearer)

- 1 FW Master of Signal in Mark IV armor

- 1 FW Legion Champion in Mark III armor

- An assortment of bits leftover (weapons for Mark IV armor, Cataphractii Terminator armor, etc.)

I want to compile my army list after I have seen the Calth book.

For fluff, I want to build one army but two flavors. First flavor is an Evocatus force led by a senior Ultramarines captain. Stationed on [insert planet name] in the Five Hundred Worlds, this one will be very Roman in theme - rigid organization, immaculate war gear, etc. Basically, expect a lot of bright, shiny gold trims, white enamel pauldrons, and helmet crests. The other flavor is a ragged band of survivors from Calth who fought and survived the World Bearers' treachery there, evacuated off-world shortly after the conclusion of Know No Fear. They ended up on [insert planet name], bringing news of the Horus Heresy to the Evocatus (who, at this point, had no idea). Together, the two groups stand against the Word Bearers and the World Eaters during the Shadow Crusade, their world being one of the very few who actually managed to repel the Traitor assault launched against them.

I want this second group to have a much more weathered aesthetic - damaged and dirty armor, some mismatched parts, and generally a grimmer outlook. I want them to be just as brutal as the Traitors.

Two questions for now:

(1) I'm by no means an Ultramarines expert, but is the white enamel pauldron more prevalent during the Great Crusade/Horus Heresy? I know in 40K, only one company carries it.

(2) Did the Ultramarines use Destroyers to any extent? AFAIK, only the Salamanders explicitly banned the use of them.

This will be a long journey, so thanks for any help!

[Ramell]

1:

The XIII is the largest Legion, so there's more than enough room for you to do whatever you want. Wouldn't surprise me if there was a full 30k Company (1000 men) with enamel pauldrons.

 

2:

I've given that some thought myself. I don't think the XIII would use Destroyers on a regular basis, but not eschew their use completely, either.

They probably keep some Destroyer equipment locked away, in base and starship armouries, in case they encounter some particularly tough hostiles, or for emergencies, such as the Heresy.

 

 

More Ultramarines are always a good thing. I look forward to seeing your work.

[Tyrannicide]

Calth survivors turned Destroyers is too cool to pass up. I wanted to do the same thing back when I was considering Ultras. 

 

It's not that far-fetched. Desperation and hate can drive even the most pragmatic minds toward insanity. Anything to exterminate the XII and XVII, brother. 

[Castiel]

I imagine that the XIII would use Destroyers, although probably only vs xenos prior to the HH. After the Heresy I can definitely see a bunch of the Calth survivors using the weapons against the Word Bearers and World Eaters.

[GrandMagnus]

The most strategic legion would surely have an arsenal of destroyer class weapons stored away. Even though it was not favoured I can easily imagine that at some point there would have been no other option.

 

And as far as the white pauldrons/helmets/etc, I think maybe the veterans of each company (1000 marines) would wear that colour. Maybe white pauldrons with the blue omega, I surtainly considered that.

[Relict]

Thanks for the inputs. 

 

Some more brainstorming here. 

 

The fluff for the Evocatus Cohort will list them as a company-sized formation originally raised and trained on Armatura before being dispatched to garrison one of the Five Hundred Worlds. I plan on having them in mostly Mark III armor and led by a "by the book" Ultramarines Legatus who is soldier and statesman both (just like Guilliman himself envisioned). Aesthetically, they will have embellished armor with enamel pauldrons and polished armor. Expect a lot of bright gold trims (I actually plan on "demoting" the FW Legion Champion to a tactical squad sergeant and the FW Master of Signal to a regular vox-equipped tactical marine, likewise for the FW Legion Centurion and standard bearer). They will be a very well equipped infantry force with a Terminator and Dreadnought presence (at completion, I would want them to be around 2000-2500 points worth). Vehicles-wise, some Rhinos and at most one Land Raider for transportation. I want them to evoke the imagery of the Roman Legions during the late Republic/early Empire - all names will be very Latinized. 

 

The fluff for the "Orphans of Calth" will be very different in contrast. I want them to have a much grimmer and darker feel - their names will be Macedonian-inspired (particular the point in history right after Alexander the Great's death, as his empire fractured). The remnants of two Ultramarines companies largely destroyed during the Battle of Calth, the survivors have banded together under the leadership of a Centurion who was formerly a master of a Destroyer Cadre. This Centurion, having spent much of the Great Crusade leading his men and employing his forbidden weapons against the foulest of xenos infestations, is a grim-faced pragmatist who believes in victory at any cost, even before the Word Bearers' betrayal. Shunned by his brothers, he sees the outbreak of the Horus Heresy as vindication for his beliefs. Now, he and his men turn their deadly arsenal and brutal tactics against the Traitors. 

 

Basically, I want the Centurion to be the foil of the Legatus - two warriors of the same Legion fighting to save a world but who have very different perspectives and methods (and they will, on more than one occasion, come into conflict over those differences, albeit non-lethally). Given that the Five Hundred Worlds is a massive realm and Ultramarines are recruited from many different worlds, I think it is conceivable for the two men to have very different upbringings and cultures (for one, I want to show this by having the Centurion and some of men speak a different native tongue and have them refer to Ultramar as "Outremer" constantly). 

 

Tabletop-wise, The "Orphans of Calth" will be around 1000 points that can be either field to complement the Evocatus Cohort (as they do, in fluff, against the Traitor forces assaulting their world during the Shadow Crusade) or fight on their own in Zone Mortalis engagements. I plan on having a squad of Destroyers (naturally) and possibly some Breachers. Heavy weapons will largely be restricted to things like Rapiers. 

 

What do you guys think? 

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Well, even the Salamanders actually had Destroyers, although they were explicitly reserved for Xenocide campaigns.

 

I'd imagine that the Ultra's wouldn't exclude Destroyers from their ranks, they just wouldn't have that many of them. I'd imagine they could only be used with the sanction of a Chapter Master or higher ranking figure.

 

 

If you want some kind of idea of what the Ultras will look like when FW finish Tempest, this is probably your best reference:

http://battlebunnies.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/forge-word-seminar-at-warhammer-fest.html

[Relict]

Yep - I saw that and I most definitely like what the "new" Ultramarines look. 

 

The 40K Ultramarines paint scheme seemed a bit plain for my tastes. 

 

Now I have to wait for Tempest, the Ultramarines Contemptor, and their dedicated helmets/pauldrons set to come out... However I have the time to slowly build up my force. I already have a company of bloodthirsty World Eaters to use on the tabletop. 3500 points of Angron's sons should be a nice opponent to my Ultramarines when I finally finish them (could be two years from now). :P

 

Can't wait to see Big Boy Blue himself. 

[Wade Garrett]

"Whatever wins the fight, wins the fight. No weapon or tactic should be excluded if that exclusion leads to defeat."

-Roboute Guilliman

[Vazzy]

I mean my Ultramarines use Destroyers, and Destroyer pirates. Now that's not to say that's a common trend, but some men are too ruthless to be put anywhere else.

[Kol Saresk]

I mean my Ultramarines use Destroyers, and Destroyer pirates.

And they have such beautiful background too.

 

What do we with the drunken whaler? What do we do with the drunken whaler...

[Relict]

I mean my Ultramarines use Destroyers, and Destroyer pirates. Now that's not to say that's a common trend, but some men are too ruthless to be put anywhere else.

 

I envision my Centurion and his men to be exactly that - pragmatists too ruthless to be placed anywhere else. A switch of allegiances and they might as well be Traitors. 

 

Even before the Horus Heresy, they were viewed by the bulk of the XIII Legion as a weapon of last resort that most commanders would rather not use. For the black warriors in chem-scarred armor to be unleashed, the foe would no longer be considered worthy of compliance and collateral damage would be considered a moot point. That they were effective in the field was undeniable.

 

Ironically, the very qualities that saw them shunned by their peers allowed them to quickly adapt to the situation at hand when the Word Bearers struck at Calth. They survived the battle as a largely coherent unit and, when all appeared lost, chose to evacuate off-world instead of fighting for a lost cause. 

[Vazzy]

 

 

I mean my Ultramarines use Destroyers, and Destroyer pirates. Now that's not to say that's a common trend, but some men are too ruthless to be put anywhere else.

I envision my Centurion and his men to be exactly that - pragmatists too ruthless to be placed anywhere else. A switch of allegiances and they might as well be Traitors.

 

Even before the Horus Heresy, they were viewed by the bulk of the XIII Legion as a weapon of last resort that most commanders would rather not use. For the black warriors in chem-scarred armor to be unleashed, the foe would no longer be considered worthy of compliance and collateral damage would be considered a moot point. That they were effective in the field was undeniable.

 

Ironically, the very qualities that saw them shunned by their peers allowed them to quickly adapt to the situation at hand when the Word Bearers struck at Calth. They survived the battle as a largely coherent unit and, when all appeared lost, chose to evacuate off-world instead of fighting for a lost cause.

Are you sure your guys aren't the 129th? That's exactly how they're written. Fidelitas leads the 129th off of Calth sinve his company is mostly intact post Calth.

[Relict]

The Destroyer Cadre is mostly intact. The rest of the company suffered near-total losses. All told, the Centurion arrives at [insert planet name] with just under one hundred Legionaries, ragged survivors from two different companies. 

 

My writing will focus more on the mental toll of the Horus Heresy was taking on the Loyalists. The "Orphans of Calth" will have a story that is even bleaker than that of your 129th, and their appearance will reflect that. 

 

The story will mostly revolve around the Legatus and the Centurion - two very different commanders with very different experiences leading very different forces fighting the same enemy. 

 

It will be less bolter porn and more human drama. 

[Vazzy]

The Destroyer Cadre is mostly intact. The rest of the company suffered near-total losses. All told, the Centurion arrives at [insert planet name] with just under one hundred Legionaries, ragged survivors from two different companies. 

 

My writing will focus more on the mental toll of the Horus Heresy was taking on the Loyalists. The "Orphans of Calth" will have a story that is even bleaker than that of your 129th, and their appearance will reflect that. 

 

The story will mostly revolve around the Legatus and the Centurion - two very different commanders with very different experiences leading very different forces fighting the same enemy. 

 

It will be less bolter porn and more human drama. 

Ok,I see what you mean. I'm definitely seeing where you're going. I'll see what I can do to help. 

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Apologies for relating this back to my beloved X^th, but I had an idea about Destroyers in the Ultramarines and thought I'd share it.

 

We know the X^th & XIII^th had very close ties, and its extremely likely that the Ultramarines were one of the Legions that used Iron Hands detatchments as shock troops. What if some of the XIII^th Legion's Destroyer cadres trained alongside the Iron Hands? The Iron Tenth certianly wouldn't have batted an eyelid at utilising the horiffic weapons deployed by Destroyers, and the idea of specialist units from different factions training together is kinda similar to joint training exercises undertaken by modern militaries. Plus the brutal outlook of the Iron Hands might rub off a bit on the Ultramarines they'd be training with, which would work with your ideas.

[Relict]

I've always been quite fond of the Astartes Study Abroad program. :P

 

I'm actually planning incorporating some IF chest and head pieces in the Amaturan Evocatus Cohort. 

 

As for my "Orphans of Calth" Destroyers, they'll definitely be in black instead of blue (since all Destroyers, whatever their Legion, is described as having black armor constantly damaged by their own weapons). I think a small IH decal on a kneepad would do nicely. 

 

There's also the chance that I'll mix and match parts from the Medusan Immortals and standard Legion Breachers sets to build a full squad of ten.

 

Who says Loyalists are boring?