BearersOfSalvation Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 What's the drawback to treating flyers as some random annoying shooting instead of blowing points and slots to take them down? I'm thinking of a list with 3 tanks, sternguard, some kind of assault, and a bunch of tac squads in rhinos. It feels like rather than worrying about flyers, I'd do fine just soaking the hits from whatever the opponent takes for the time they're on the board, and wouldn't have to blow a HS slot on a stalker or other anti-air unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl of Wulfen Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I would say it would depend on the number of fliers and how much shooting you'd have to tank. If its one flyer, I'd say you could probably ignore it. If you face 3 or more, you'll need to deal with them. I just made a flyer list where I have 3 stormtalons with lascannons and the assault cannon in addition to a stormraven with multimelta and plasma cannon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Well, it's obviously going to depend on the flyers, and how many there are. It's no different from saying you're going to ignore all your opponent's tanks. Ignoring one Predator is a different question than ignoring half a dozen Leman Russ Battle Tanks. Ignore a stock Stormtalon and you might lose a Rhino or a couple of Marines per turn. Ignore a Storm Wing with upgrades and you might lose 3-4 units in a single turn and have to deal with a couple of transported units deployed with impunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 You may also have better luck with this plan in maelstrom games as destruction of the enemy is often less important than in eternity of war matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I think it's better to have some air capability starting at 1000 points, even of the more modest kind, in take all comers lists. Just because it's better to be able to deal with stuff than not ! I run a Stormtalon with TML from 1000 points up to 1850 (at 1500 I replace it with a Stormraven and at 1850 points I put it back in), because it's a nice air-to-ground weapon platform that I can choose to aim and scare off fliers save for the toughest in case I need. Certain fliers can be ignored, most must be distracted : another flier is a direct threat, forcing them to jink hampers their effectiveness. Letting a Dakka Flyrant run amok in your lines without being able to reliably scare him off is not a great deal, and you can find functionning Tyranid armies with two of these at 1000 points... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 It may be useful to consider ignoring flyers not as a list building mechanic but as an in-game practice. For example, I was playing a game the other day against raider rush grey knights. He had only one unit of power armor, not on the board, and everything else was land raiders and tda. He could thus fairly safely ignore my baledrake. It only became a threat when his pa dropped in. In that sense, knowing that flyers, due to weaponry and limited positioning/maneuverability often can vary widely in threat level turn to turn means that you can ignore them some of the time, and the trick is figuring out when that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearersOfSalvation Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 Well, what annoyed me is burning a heavy support slot for a vehicle that really only hurts flyers, and that isn't all that durable so can be taken out fairly easily if the flyers focus on it, and considering adding more just to have backup. I haven't really hit any seriously scary fliers yet (though I haven't played a lot of games), and I don't know how common they are in my local meta. It sounds like there's some that are way more effective than what I've experienced, so I'll keep that in mind. I'll probably skip AA for a while until it hurts me in a game enough to annoy me, then pick up some Stormtalons so I'm not burning HS spots. Also there's no Stalker that will match my other rhino-chassis vehicles :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl of Wulfen Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Don't forget you can also take an aegis defence line with the quad gun as well. That will use your fortification slot rather than a heavy support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 a vehicle that really only hurts flyers Remember Skyfire targets skimmers at full BS as well as flyers/FMCs. It's rarely useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axagoras Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I run a firestorm redoubt with magos and a extra quad gun. Sure its over a land raider in cost but it is av 14, scores, and its quad icarus lascannons murder fliers, and daemon/nids flying bugs well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearersOfSalvation Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 Where are the rules for the aegis defense line? I haven't delved into all of the depths of the rulebook, so I might not have seen it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Last edition they were in the main rulebook. You need Stronghold Assault now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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