King Jackal Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 My suggestion on Lucius is exactly what his gimmick should be, not necessarily how I've outlined the rules but above all else he should be: prideful, exceptional at duelling and when he dies should have a chance at re spawning within his killer. I'm not sure if anything in this topic is OP, but who cares if it is? It's good to debate, spitball ideas and get imaginative. It's not like what we write here will get picked up by the future C:CSM author.... Have to disagree with Lucius replacing his killer. Not only because 'on a 6 your Abaddon is replaced with my Lucius' is kinda BS, but from a fluff perspective, it doesn't work that way. From the codex "Whoever slays him...will find themselves transforming, slowly and painfully, into Lucius". So that should most definitely not be an in game ability. It could argued that the length of a battle could be taking place over (what we perceive as) days, weeks or months depending on points size, and to that end it could be argued from a Forge the Narrative point of view that Lucius' killer has been transforming 'slowly and painfully.' I tend to agree with you on the Abaddon front though, maybe something like, 'has no effect on models with Eternal Warrior' Thing is though, it's not just eternal warrior that becomes problematic. As the wobbly model syndrome webcomic had pointed out a couple if times, Lucius' ability is rather silly if actually examined. What if a tank kills him? What about a greater daemon? A C'Tan shard? Any Eldar (if Slaanesh can resurrect Lucius into them, it should be able to rip their soul out post haste)? The list of exceptions and clarifications you'd need isn't worht it. Better left off the table. Also, I'd say that there's no way you can realistically claim that a single 40k battle takes place over any length of time longer than about a day, which is far too fast for a 'slow' transformation imo. Do C'tan shards have souls? I understand what you're saying and short of having a list under his entry of things that are and are not effected by that ability would be difficult. Then again it's only 1 line to say, this power does not effect: Monstrous Creatures, vehicles or models with the Eternal Warrior special rule. - not because they're 'Eternal Warrior.' Either way it won't happen, so it doesn't matter :) The 13th Black Crusade was over the course of years, I think you can assume that for example, The battle of The Cadian Gate (which appeared as a battle report) was based over the course of at least weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_contagion Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 My suggestion on Lucius is exactly what his gimmick should be, not necessarily how I've outlined the rules but above all else he should be: prideful, exceptional at duelling and when he dies should have a chance at re spawning within his killer. I'm not sure if anything in this topic is OP, but who cares if it is? It's good to debate, spitball ideas and get imaginative. It's not like what we write here will get picked up by the future C:CSM author....Have to disagree with Lucius replacing his killer. Not only because 'on a 6 your Abaddon is replaced with my Lucius' is kinda BS, but from a fluff perspective, it doesn't work that way. From the codex "Whoever slays him...will find themselves transforming, slowly and painfully, into Lucius". So that should most definitely not be an in game ability. It could argued that the length of a battle could be taking place over (what we perceive as) days, weeks or months depending on points size, and to that end it could be argued from a Forge the Narrative point of view that Lucius' killer has been transforming 'slowly and painfully.' I tend to agree with you on the Abaddon front though, maybe something like, 'has no effect on models with Eternal Warrior' Thing is though, it's not just eternal warrior that becomes problematic. As the wobbly model syndrome webcomic had pointed out a couple if times, Lucius' ability is rather silly if actually examined. What if a tank kills him? What about a greater daemon? A C'Tan shard? Any Eldar (if Slaanesh can resurrect Lucius into them, it should be able to rip their soul out post haste)? The list of exceptions and clarifications you'd need isn't worht it. Better left off the table. Also, I'd say that there's no way you can realistically claim that a single 40k battle takes place over any length of time longer than about a day, which is far too fast for a 'slow' transformation imo. I guess that would depend if the warp power that causes him to reincarnate through his killer is powerful enough to overcome any of his opponents, I mean, it is Slaanesh himself causing it to happen. Also a tank (the driver, gunner or commander inside the tank) or even a drone (potentially controlled by a pilot elsewhere) killing him wouldn't necessarily keep him from reincarnating, because it could potentially be anyone who takes pleasure in his death, so it could even effect an observer. But also, the flick gods could take away their favor just as easily as they gave it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Every single bit of a character's fluff doesn't need to be represented in the game as rules! Focus and remember to KIS! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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