Zone mortalis - Salamanders 1000 pt.

[Kingofmottinos]

Hi! :) This is my first salamander list and it is specifically designed for zone mortalis.

Let me know what you think:

 

8 pyroclasts + fist 275

Praetor + mantle + paragon + dragonscale shield 180

2 Apothecary + artificer 110 (one with the pyroclasts, the other one with a tactical squad)

15 tactics + 15 blades + combiflamer + melta 245

15 tactics + 15 blades + combiflamer + melta 245

 

1000 pt.

 

Any suggestions? :)

[Castiel]

Did you consider breachers or Firedrakes? I'd definitely try to run them in ZM.

[Kingofmottinos]

Well, honestly I didn't consider them that much and, as a new player, I never faced them in battle, so I don't even know how I could use them :S I considered using the firedrakes but they have the cataphractii armor, which limits their mobility, so they could be useless if the enemy can easely avoid them... About the breachers, what kind of build would you suggest for them?

And also, besides from pyroclasts, is the list fine? :)

[Slips]

Depending on your ZM FoC, you can get away with a Single Compulsory Troops selection (defender, iirc) or a single Elites as Compulsory (Attacker, iirc) and, in doing so, run MORE FLAMERS.

 

'cuz lets face it.

 

Salamanders make Flamers and Meltas better. ZM makes flamers Better and nothing in ZM can have Armored Ceramite. Taking more of both isn't a bad thing.

 

So, to that end, you could have 1-3 lists that take advantage of the different FoC's:

 

If you're Attacker and have to take HQ+ Elite as mandatory, you could load up on Firedrakes and Pryoclasts and Heavy Support Squads with flamers. Range shouldn't be much of a problem if you play smart and make good use of the tight confines to bring tears to your enemies eyes when they have to eat 10+ Heavy Flamer Templates that all have Shred.

 

Defenders, I'd stick with what you've got right now but sub out the second tac squad for either a Melta/plasma support squad, Heavy Flammer Heavy Support, Graviton Cannon Rapiers or a Contemptor Dreadnought with either Gun Arm + DCCW with Grav or 2DCCW with grav. Granted you could do the same here with the list above. Dreadnoughts, especially contemptors aren't a bad thing  due to how much tougher they are + Weapon loadouts than infantry. Also make for decent DESTRACTION CARNIFEX's.

 

Personally, I don't know why you're taking a Preator. Are you using the RoW? If not, I'd opt for a Consul to save a buncha points and have more utility.

 

...If you've read any of my other Consul Suggestion posts then you know whats coming : 

 

Primus Medicae. Essentially a Captain + Apothecary. Can be given Terminator armor (among other things like jet bikes) and can take anything a Special, Unique Character Can. So you can technically give him the Mantle and Storm Shield. Though he Won't have a Paragon Blade Option. If you take Firedrakes, having a PM join them for FNP will boost their survivability and make them less of a hassle due to Slow and Purposeful. If not, I'd stick him with the Pyroclasts and Gear him up accordingly. Though I wouldn't use him as a challenge taker/giver. Only as a last resort. Doing so means you now technically have 3 Apothecaries, enough for every squad, and a few points spare to beef up the units you already have.

 

Chaplain isn't a bad choice though they mostly help CC units due to Zealot.

 

Librarian wouldn't be bad either. Both the Chappy and Libby can be Given Terminator Armor and other gear too.

 

The rest wouldn't be as effective in a list like this, imo.

 

For Breachers, I'd give them as many flamers or Meltas as you could. This goes from 2 for 10 men to 4 for 20. I'd also give them Melta Bombs to deal with stuff. Use them defensively since they have -1 Inch to their charge range. Though a single, 20 man, tooled up Breacher squad will run you in the range of 500 points. If you use the Defender FoC for a single compulsory Troop, this may work....

[Castiel]

Well, honestly I didn't consider them that much and, as a new player, I never faced them in battle, so I don't even know how I could use them :S I considered using the firedrakes but they have the cataphractii armor, which limits their mobility, so they could be useless if the enemy can easely avoid them... About the breachers, what kind of build would you suggest for them?

And also, besides from pyroclasts, is the list fine?

You would have to be clever with the Firedrakes deployment and use as they are a big points sink. However a bunch of 2 wound WS 5 2+/3+ models with thunder hammers roaming around is nothing to be sniffed at if you can use them right. Breachers I suggest as having the ability to re-roll saves from template and blast weapons in ZM can be invaluable. I'd probably run 10 men, with melta gun and a sarge with aa, and a m-c thunder hammer. However you may wish to choose cheaper options for the sergeant, he's just kitted out to my personal taste.

I think Pyroclasts are good in ZM as they are a versatile unit and can handle most thinks they run into. Extra 2+ armour is always going to be good given the nature of ZM as well, but I would maybe run a smaller squad of 5.

[Kingofmottinos]

Depending on your ZM FoC, you can get away with a Single Compulsory Troops selection (defender, iirc) or a single Elites as Compulsory (Attacker, iirc) and, in doing so, run MORE FLAMERS.

'cuz lets face it.

Salamanders make Flamers and Meltas better. ZM makes flamers Better and nothing in ZM can have Armored Ceramite. Taking more of both isn't a bad thing.

So, to that end, you could have 1-3 lists that take advantage of the different FoC's:

If you're Attacker and have to take HQ+ Elite as mandatory, you could load up on Firedrakes and Pryoclasts and Heavy Support Squads with flamers. Range shouldn't be much of a problem if you play smart and make good use of the tight confines to bring tears to your enemies eyes when they have to eat 10+ Heavy Flamer Templates that all have Shred.

Defenders, I'd stick with what you've got right now but sub out the second tac squad for either a Melta/plasma support squad, Heavy Flammer Heavy Support, Graviton Cannon Rapiers or a Contemptor Dreadnought with either Gun Arm + DCCW with Grav or 2DCCW with grav. Granted you could do the same here with the list above. Dreadnoughts, especially contemptors aren't a bad thing due to how much tougher they are + Weapon loadouts than infantry. Also make for decent DESTRACTION CARNIFEX's.

Personally, I don't know why you're taking a Preator. Are you using the RoW? If not, I'd opt for a Consul to save a buncha points and have more utility.

...If you've read any of my other Consul Suggestion posts then you know whats coming :

Primus Medicae. Essentially a Captain + Apothecary. Can be given Terminator armor (among other things like jet bikes) and can take anything a Special, Unique Character Can. So you can technically give him the Mantle and Storm Shield. Though he Won't have a Paragon Blade Option. If you take Firedrakes, having a PM join them for FNP will boost their survivability and make them less of a hassle due to Slow and Purposeful. If not, I'd stick him with the Pyroclasts and Gear him up accordingly. Though I wouldn't use him as a challenge taker/giver. Only as a last resort. Doing so means you now technically have 3 Apothecaries, enough for every squad, and a few points spare to beef up the units you already have.

Chaplain isn't a bad choice though they mostly help CC units due to Zealot.

Librarian wouldn't be bad either. Both the Chappy and Libby can be Given Terminator Armor and other gear too.

The rest wouldn't be as effective in a list like this, imo.

For Breachers, I'd give them as many flamers or Meltas as you could. This goes from 2 for 10 men to 4 for 20. I'd also give them Melta Bombs to deal with stuff. Use them defensively since they have -1 Inch to their charge range. Though a single, 20 man, tooled up Breacher squad will run you in the range of 500 points. If you use the Defender FoC for a single compulsory Troop, this may work....

Well, honestly I didn't consider them that much and, as a new player, I never faced them in battle, so I don't even know how I could use them :S I considered using the firedrakes but they have the cataphractii armor, which limits their mobility, so they could be useless if the enemy can easely avoid them... About the breachers, what kind of build would you suggest for them?

And also, besides from pyroclasts, is the list fine?

You would have to be clever with the Firedrakes deployment and use as they are a big points sink. However a bunch of 2 wound WS 5 2+/3+ models with thunder hammers roaming around is nothing to be sniffed at if you can use them right. Breachers I suggest as having the ability to re-roll saves from template and blast weapons in ZM can be invaluable. I'd probably run 10 men, with melta gun and a sarge with aa, and a m-c thunder hammer. However you may wish to choose cheaper options for the sergeant, he's just kitted out to my personal taste.

I think Pyroclasts are good in ZM as they are a versatile unit and can handle most thinks they run into. Extra 2+ armour is always going to be good given the nature of ZM as well, but I would maybe run a smaller squad of 5.

Thank you both for replying so fast About the choice between firedrakes and breachers I think I'd rather use firedrakes: I like the models and I like their rules Thank you Castiel for reminding me about them I'll follow slipstreams' advise and I'll make two lists, one as an attacker and another one as a defender. As an attacker, this is the list I wrote down

5 firedrakes + 5 fists + 5 shield 325

Primus medicae + terminator catphractii + chainfist + dragonscale shield + mantle 155 pt.

5 pyroclasts + power weapon (I had 10 points and I didn't know where to use them :S) 170

Apothecary + artificer 55

Apothecary + artificer 55

10 heavy support + 10 flamers + melta bombs 240

I've a lot of anti-infantry weapons and some nice little anti-vehicle things (because I often find myself against dreadnoughts when I play zone mortalis). I like this list also because it is a lot "salamander themed" with all those flamers Tomorrow I'll make the defender list

[Moonstalker]

Mantle is for Praetors only, not any IC.  As well, Attackers FOC for ZM is 0-1 Heavy Support, Pyroclasts and a Heavy Support squad makes 2?

[Kingofmottinos]

Mantle is for Praetors only, not any IC.  As well, Attackers FOC for ZM is 0-1 Heavy Support, Pyroclasts and a Heavy Support squad makes 2?

Yep, I completely forgot about that XD. So, now what can I do? I could use the flamer support squad instead of the heavy support and, counting 20 points for the mantle, I would have 85 points to spend in something else...

[Castiel]

 

Mantle is for Praetors only, not any IC.  As well, Attackers FOC for ZM is 0-1 Heavy Support, Pyroclasts and a Heavy Support squad makes 2?

Yep, I completely forgot about that XD. So, now what can I do? I could use the flamer support squad instead of the heavy support and, counting 20 points for the mantle, I would have 85 points to spend in something else...

 

Get thunder hammers on the firedrakes for 25 points. It looks badass and they hit like a ton of bricks

[Kingofmottinos]

I'd like to use thunder hammers because as you said they look freaking badass, but I made this reasoning: something in ZM that can really hurt firedrakes is an ap2 weapon, and melee weapons with that ap are 99% unwieldy, so they bring the user to Initiative 1 and so there's no really need to pay for the concussive rule of thunder hammers

[Castiel]

I'd like to use thunder hammers because as you said they look freaking badass, but I made this reasoning: something in ZM that can really hurt firedrakes is an ap2 weapon, and melee weapons with that ap are 99% unwieldy, so they bring the user to Initiative 1 and so there's no really need to pay for the concussive rule of thunder hammers

The joy of 30k is most things are competitive, so paying a little extra for the hammers generally isn't a big disadvantage if you think they look cool. Its your list though, so feel free to ignore what I say. :)

[Kingofmottinos]

I usually play against people who doesn't complain if I have a model with a thunder hammer and I give him something else, so I can use the models with the hammer and play them as they were equipped with fists :)

[Kor'Vesh]

So firedrakes are obviously beastly, and you'd always give them hammers and shields in a normal game. I just wonder if you ought to diversify their weapons more for ZM. Two shields, maybe plus one spare should be enough to block a corridor if needed, and that might allows you to bring a little fire power too. I'd at least bring a heavy flamer, and maybe a combi melta or two for the squad.

[Kingofmottinos]

Yeah, some firepower could be useful...I could use this:

5 firedrakes + 5 thunder hammer + heavy flamer + 4 shields 355 (yeah, I chose thunder hammers in the end )

Primus medicae + terminator catphractii + chainfist + dragonscale shield 135

5 pyroclasts + melta bombs 185

Apothecary + artificer 55

Apothecary + artificer 55

10 support marines + 10 flamer + melta bomb 180

This is 965 pt., I've still 35 points to spend but I don't know where... I could buy a melta gun or the artificer armour for the support, or I could buy a fist or a power weapon for the apothecaries or the support's seargent...

[Slips]

I'd maybe get Augury Scanners on the apothecaries to sink some points and to deny Infiltrate (if you come against it).

[Kingofmottinos]

About that, at least for now there's no one who uses infiltrated squads where I play, so it would be pointless using them... When I'll start seeing infiltrate in battle, I'll certainly use the scanners, but at this moment If no one uses (and never used) these kind of squads I don't see why I should buy the scanners... :S

[Castiel]

Yay hammers! :P

[Kor'Vesh]

So this is an odd suggestion, but 40 points buys you a quad heavy bolter rapier. You currently have nothing that fires beyond template range, and at some point you might want to try and gun down a lone character, thin out a squad or have something to threaten an enemies approach down a long corridor. It's not the scariest gun in the world, but it could add a little something to this style of list. Trimming a support marine or two and a hammer or shield or two might let you buy two, to give you a little weight of ranged fire. Or make second a laser destroyer to scare dreadnoughts...

 

Stupid suggestion?

[Kingofmottinos]

So this is an odd suggestion, but 40 points buys you a quad heavy bolter rapier. You currently have nothing that fires beyond template range, and at some point you might want to try and gun down a lone character, thin out a squad or have something to threaten an enemies approach down a long corridor. It's not the scariest gun in the world, but it could add a little something to this style of list. Trimming a support marine or two and a hammer or shield or two might let you buy two, to give you a little weight of ranged fire. Or make second a laser destroyer to scare dreadnoughts...

 

Stupid suggestion?

mmm... if I don't use melta bombs on the pyroclasts I would have 60 points free, so I could buy a rapier with laser destroyer... yeah, I like it :) I have 5 more points, and I can spend them only in an augury scanner for an apothecary, because there's nothing that costs 5 points apart from that. So, this should be the final list:

 

5 firedrakes + 5 thunder hammer + heavy flamer + 4 shields 355

Primus medicae + terminator catphractii + chainfist + dragonscale shield 135 

5 pyroclasts + 160

Apothecary + artificer  55

Apothecary + artificer + augury 60

10 support marines + 10 flamer + melta bomb 180

Rapier + destroyer laser array 55