shunt from within a building

[Brom MKIV]

Rules question I got called on today.. can interceptors shunt from inside a building? I'm hoping so since my current army hinges on that ability. It's been an assumption due to the teleport language but this is the first time I've actually been forced to support it. So what's b&c say?

[Everon]

Yes. they can shunt from within no problem it's just as long as they're not embarked on anything. If they are shunting to another building they would need to do the dangerous terrain test.

[Brom MKIV]

To elaborate I put a unit of interceptors inside a wall of martyrs bunker next to a comms relay. Once my reserves arrive I shunt to join the battle.

[Everon]

I do believe that this is legal to do.

[Adeptus]

So the question is can you disembark and shunt in the same turn?

 

My hunch is "I don't think so" but I'd have to pull out my rules and check.

[raverrn]

Gut reaction is yes - other models may use alternate movement when exiting vehicles, beasts, warp spiders etc. Don't have books to confirm though.

[Lucien Eilam]

Yes. they can shunt from within no problem it's just as long as they're not embarked on anything.

 

Entering and exiting a building works the same as embarking and disembarking, so if you can't do it while embarked, it stands to reason you can't do it while in a building either.

 

You have to disembark before you can move, and shunting replaces movement. I think you need to exit first.

 

So the question is can you disembark and shunt in the same turn?

 

Debatable. Disembarking counts as having moved even if that's all you do, but you get to make "a normal move" after doing it. Teleport shunt just says it happens "instead of moving".

[Brom MKIV]

Ok sorry about the vagueness early, back with my books again.. 

 

So Personal Teleporter rules state:

 In addition, once per game, a unit composed entirely of models with personal teleporters can make a teleport shunt instead of moving in the Movement phase. A unit making a teleport shunt moves up to 30" in the Movement phase. This move cannot end up on another unit or impassable terrain, but ignores intervening units, terrain etc. A unit cannot charge in the same turn that it makes a teleport shunt

 

 

Transport rules under disembark pg.81;

sub heading Placing Disembarked Models:

When a unit disembarks, place the models one at a time, using the following method: place the first model in base contact with one of the vehicle's Access Points (including its flying base, if it has one). A disembarking model's base cannot be placed withint 1" of an enemy model or within impassable terrain. 

 

The model can then make a normal move - Difficult and Dangerous Terrain tests should be taken as normal, bit it must end its move wholly within 6" of the Access Point it disembarked from (we assume that any distance that is lost because of this has been used getting out of the Transport). Repeat this process for each model in the unit. At the end of the unit's move, all models must be in unit coherency.

 

 

Buildings pg 110;

Entering & Exiting Buildings (pertinent exerpt):

Moving into or out of a building works the same as embarking or disembarking from a vehicle.

 

 

So from this information does it seem that what I am doing is legal? i.e. place unit outside then shunt. Fyi my opponent is cool and was ok with letting the action go this time but the question of legality was raised so I wanted a topic on the subject.

[Lucien Eilam]

I don't think you can say for certain. Does shunting just replace the "normal move" you're allowed after disembarking? Or have you already forfeited the opportunity, because disembarking counts as having moved?

 

I'd allow it, on the basis of it replacing "a normal move", but if my opponent had a problem with it I wouldn't feel confident arguing my case.  Needs a FAQ really.

[GreyCrow]

I would say that this is debatable. Because when you disembark you actually move model per model, while the rules for the personal teleporter seems to apply to the whole unit.

 

The way I see it :

- You are embarked and can not make a normal move.

- Your first model disembarks and then is allowed to make a normal move

- At this point, your unit can not make a normal move, because only the first model has disembark, so no shunt

- You move your first model, because otherwise the rest of your unit can't disembark (blocking the access point)

- Your disembark and make a normal move with your unit

- Because you have made a normal move, you can't shunt

 

To be fair, I don't play Grey Knights and I would allow a player to shunt out of a building in this fashion, but I don't believe RAW allows it :)

[Brom MKIV]

Ya its basically the awkwardness of the disembark wording that is causing the issue. Since buildings are really the only time this would be relevant I highly doubt the GK codex developers even thought that far ahead honestly. The replacement effect seems to cover it sufficently but not definitively so I would love to see some examples of other forms of movement that replace normal moves.. which would then impact this topic.

 

As an aside I hate using grey area rules (pun intended) so if it feels beardy after all debate is done I might just abort this operation for an alternative method.  

[Reclusiarch Darius]

You could always just hide them behind the building, or inside an Aegis Line. Aegis Lines can't be blown up either, which is a big plus. 

[GreyCrow]

 

As an aside I hate using grey area rules (pun intended) so if it feels beardy after all debate is done I might just abort this operation for an alternative method.  

 

The Grey Area Knights :p

[Quozzo]

I would say they can despite:

 

The model can then make a normal move - Difficult and Dangerous Terrain tests should be taken as normal, bit it must end its move wholly within 6" of the Access Point it disembarked from (we assume that any distance that is lost because of this has been used getting out of the Transport)

 

Because they are not moving normally, they are using shunt which can be used instead of moving normally.

[Brom MKIV]

We came to the same conclusion.

[Captain Coolpants]

But it must remain 6" from the access point regardless of whether it's a normal move or not though doesn't it?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

But it must remain 6" from the access point regardless of whether it's a normal move or not though doesn't it? 

 

 

Yeah that's my issue with this as well. Honestly, just hide them behind LOS blocking terrain, then shunt them. No rules quandry, and your Interceptors shouldn't be camping inside buildings anyway, they're an assault unit. 

[Brom MKIV]

I take the bunker for multiple reasons and I love them all. It's a 55 pt scoring av14 unit when placed near an objective. It protects infantry from everything short of penning anti tank shots. It serves as an alternative to my raven to deliver purifiers 18" up field combat squaded if I like. It's an assault vehicle for those careless enough to close with it. And it unlocks a comms which when deployed with 2" instead of on top is also unkillable since its terrain. Plus the bunker can activate the comms by itself. Can't say enough for this thing.

 

I should be running two just for the cheap scoring aspect.

[Captain Coolpants]

Can the bunker activate the comms relay? Or claim objectives?

 

That's sounds a little fishy to me.

[Adeptus]

Can the bunker activate the comms relay? Or claim objectives?

 

That's sounds a little fishy to me.

Yeah, first I've heard of it. And I was pretty sure the Comms relay, like the quad gun, could be shot at and destroyed.

[Brom MKIV]

Look it all up if it sounds fishy. I would list references but I don't have my books with me. In a nutshell comms is terrain. Can't destroy terrain. Bunker is a scoring model if purchased as part of your army as soon as it is claimed. Put a model within 2" to activate the comms.. i.e. with the bunker. You haven't heard of it your missing out brothers.

[Captain Coolpants]

But I thought the bunker wouldn't account for a scouring unit unless something is in it?

I'm kinda new to the whole stronghold assault book. But I thought if a bunker or whatever is unmanned then it's fair game for any player to man/use? So how can it score?. Because I didn't see anything in the book that says empty fortifications can capture objectives.. Or can essentially man another fortification.. How can a fortification occupy a fortification?

 

 

 

Again, I'm new at this book :-P

[Brom MKIV]

A fortification purchased as part of your army is claimed when you deploy it iirc. It's also claimed once occupied, and that is the risk of leaving it empty.. i.e. an enemy shunt/deep strike etc could steal it if unmanned.

[Adeptus]

Hmm, you're right about the Comms relay being terrain, but I'm still not sure about the bunker being able to activate it.

[jeffersonian000]

After reviewing the rules for Shunt as well as Embarking/Disembarking from Vehicles/Buildings, I'm going to say no, they cannot Shunt while Embarked in a Building. The reason is that a model must Disrmbark in order to exit a Vehicle or Building. Shunt would work if models could leave Buildings without Disembarking; unfortunately, that is not the case in 7th.

 

SJ