march10k Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Sorry, I didn't mean to be condescending...A blob is a good idea...an army of nothing but multiple blobs isn't really that good. I've used blobs to take down flyrants and such, where they're landraider-priced models, but they only have like 6 attacks, and I have 30-40 models that need 5s to hit and 6s to wound, then they get a 3+ (this was 4th edition...maybe 5th?), but they were still taking a wound per turn, and more importantly, the flyrant wasn't eating my tanks! So blobs work against certain targets...but you still need versatility in the list. That blob of mine...raveners ate them in the end...and if I'd had three blobs, the gaunts and stuff would have shredded them, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfgar hammerfist Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 No worries friend. You made some good points. I would never field an army like that because 1) I don't have that many infantry, 2) it isn't very flexible and 3) it would be rather boring to play. I am still learning how to play with the Guard so I welcome the thoughts of those who know. That's why I enjoy this thread because it presents different ideas and tactics that we can all experiment with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I would actually like to have some big infantry blobs, to mass firepower on the enemy. I'd like to have several infantry platoons, 2 maneuver platoons (all infantry, with special weapons) and one weapons platoon (mostly HWT's, autocannons and mortars). I also want tanks, lots of em. I intend Guard to be my second Apoc level army (10k points). I still like the idea of playing a highly mobile, airborne, hard hitting, army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altasmurf Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 Well with all the talk of Infantry I figured I'd add my latest list... The Human Wave Who doesn't love the idea of a mass of infantry marching down the field, and cramming so many guardsmen down the throat of the opponent, that he chokes. The backbone of this list is the guard blob, and it will be an argument until the end of time how many squads should be blobbed together. To be honest only experience can tell you that. I've determined that 20 man blobs do the job I need. They're easy enough to manuever and place, and big enough to take advantage of buffs from orders and psykers. I have had succes with 30 man blobs, but anything bigger just becomes more of a hinderence then a benifit. In a list like this I try to have around 10 men for every 100 points, this has just been a ratio that works well for me. Lots of bodies and enough toys to make them work. When building blobs I try to keep them under 200 points so that no lucky hit, bad leadership roll, or going to ground ever removes a large portion of the army. The tricky part is support elements. Which characters do I use ie. priest, psyker, commissar, ect. What fire support should I use ie. heavy weapon squads, special weapon squads, ratlings ect. It really doesn't matter any support from the guard army will benifit an Infantry blob based army. Just remember now a days movement is key. With a human wave army it's not about zipping from objective to objective, it's a bout creating a moving wall of area claiming and denial so keep that in mind when designing your list. Pros - Boots on the ground. No army can (except maybe orcs) can have as many capable men as you on the field. - Limited weapon viablity for you opponent. Watch your opponent sob as he fires his lascannon as he fires at your guardsmen. - Draconic Command. You can loose man after man and just keep feeding them into the fight. Cons - The movement phase. So many models to move. - Vulnerability to Blast. As a guard player we salivate when we line up a wyvren to bombard a horde, well that's how you opponent will feel. Human Wave CCS Master of Ordinance, Astropath - Backfield order giver, with some long range support, and pyker support. CCS Grenade launcher x 2 - Move forward with the wave, weapons are kept cheap so they're low priority. Primarus Psyker x 3 Mastery Level 1 - Place in squads as desired for psyker support. PCS Grenade launcher x 2 - Same roll as the unit above Infantry Squad x 2 Flamer x 2, Krak Grenades x 2, Priest - Advancing Blob Infantry Squad x 2 Melta x 2, Krak Grenade x 2, Priest - Advancing Blob Conscripts 20 conscripts, Commissar - more bodies for the grinder PCS Autocannon - Cheap backfield command Infantry Squad x 2 Plasma x 2, Autocannon x 2, Commissar - Backfield fire support Infantry Squad x 2 Plasma x 2, Lascannon x 2, Commissar - Backfield fire support Scion Platoon Squad 1 Scions x 5, Melta x2 Squad 2 Scions x 5, Melta x 2 Squad 3 Scions x 5, Plasma x2 - This platoon is your ace up your sleeve use them to strike at key targets that you infantry can't engage. Ratlings Ratlings x 8 - mostly just a fun little unit that can take the heat of your infantry. A whole lot of boots and it would take a pretty good chunck of your opponents fire power to actually remove any of your big guns from play. Never be scared to go to ground with the units that can. You have more guns and "Get back in the fight" that it's better to keep your men alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mehman Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Is it good or bad that this "Human Wave" looks similar to my old lists ? The only differences I can see are that my lists took at least one Leman Russ, a Hydra (most of the time), and had more Heavy Weapon support. Of course Grey Knights or Imperial Knights were usually allied. Y'all should have seen my Imperial Guard, Militarum Tempestus, and Imperial Knight list . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Cato Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Pros - Boots on the ground. No army can (except maybe orcs) can have as many capable men as you on the field. Renegades and Heretics laugh at this. Hordes are fun at 3pts per model On topic though: great work on these lists! Lots of good food fort hought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 He said "capable" men Cato ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uprising Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 He said "capable" men Cato They are more then capable at their job. Beside we get lazer rapiers to help us in the killing area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altasmurf Posted April 4, 2015 Author Share Posted April 4, 2015 Is it good or bad that this "Human Wave" looks similar to my old lists ? The only differences I can see are that my lists took at least one Leman Russ, a Hydra (most of the time), and had more Heavy Weapon support. Of course Grey Knights or Imperial Knights were usually allied. Y'all should have seen my Imperial Guard, Militarum Tempestus, and Imperial Knight list . Please do that's the point of this thread, take the army style and present it so that people who want to start Imperial Guard have a strong idea of the lists and styles they can create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altasmurf Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 Well time for my next list, Mechanised Infantry Mechanised infantry uses a wall of armour to protect those soft, chewy guardsmen. The core of this list is squads protected by transports, the most common being Veterans in Chimeras. There is nothing saying that you can't use Infantry Squads and Taurox however. In this army the transports provides anti-infantry and anti-light vehicle duty, while the support units bring the anti-heavy infantry, and anti-heavy tank killing power. Uses your armour and speed to claim objectives and protect your infantry. Vehicles are usually the best support units for an army like this as they provide more armour saturation and are mobile enough to keep up with the transports. Ogryns and strom troopers in transports are also a great additions for including a bit of fluff and different look. A quick note on chimera or taurox. There is no disadvantage to taking either transport however they do play differently. The chimera provides great anti-infantry and can put the hurt on AV 11. The taurox is excellent at engaging light vehicles up to about AV 12 and cheaper. I prefer the versatility, and AV 12 of the chimera, but the cheaper taurox does allow you to focus your infantry a bit more on killing infantry where your lasguns are now more useful. Some things to keep in mind when playing mechanised. - Stay in your transports taking pot shots with 2 weapons , and when time it right, unleash a wave of guardsmen from their tanks to bring the pain when required. The key to the mechanised list is when to unload the troops, to soon and you have a bunch a guardsmen with their A** hanging in the wind, to late and you won't have time to accomplish what you want. - Chimera's are Objective secured bunkers, don't be scared to plunk one down on an objective as long as the squad in side has a long range weapon, or has already left the vehicle and won't be getting back in. - Slow mobility, you can move 6" and fire your army with about a 75% drop in fire power, 12" and you loose it all. Try to figure out where you need to be a couple of turns in advance and remember you won't win the speed game, but you're not a static gun line. - Watch out for assault. Even a basic squad with str 4 weapons in melee can take down your chimeras. It maybe be better to sacrifice a squad then to allow a multi charge against your vehicles. Lose to many transports to quickly and it's over before it starts. Pros - Mobility. You can always move and still fire to some effect. - Wall of armour. Your opponents anti-infantry, and basic wepons are somewhat useless for most of the game. Cons - Low model count. For a guard army you don't have a lot of infantry, and if you don't grab priests or comissars they will be running after a few causulties. - Side AV 10. The greatest weakness of guard transports is Side AV of 10, these vehicles can be killed by a large amout of small arms if they get on your flank. - Vulnerable to assault. Once they crack your rear armour 10 shell, they get your chewy soft guardsmen centre. Mechanised wave Tank Commander LR Exterminator, Multi Melta, Lascannon Wingman LR Exterminator, Multi Melta, Lascannon - About the only thing this squad can't do is take on a horde (although it will bring some pain with it's main weapon) Veterans Grenade launcher x 2, Heavy Flamer, Krak Grenades Chimera Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer Veterans Plasmagun x 2, Heavy Flamer Chimera Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer Veterans Meltagun x 3, Krak Grenades Chimera Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer - This Trio is your forward wave, never send these guys alone they are designed to be supported by each other, and your tank command and devil dog. When you feel you need to kill somthing dead or engage on a large scale you want them close to each other so when you disembark all the vets are near each other to support. Infantry Platoon PCS Lascannon Chimera Multi-Laser, Heavy Bolter Infantry Squad Lascannon, flamer Chimera Multi-Laser, Heavy Bolter Infantry Squad Lascannon, flamer Chimera Multi-Laser, Heavy Bolter Infantry Squad Lascannon, flamer Chimera Multi-Laser, Heavy Bolter - Hunker down with this group with good target lanes, even better if you can be near an objective. Pound on vehicles from afar or if need be rush forward and engage with flamers. Devil Dog Melta Cannon, Multi-Melta - Pretty straight forward, point at somthing big and pull the trigger, use it's speed to respond to threats and if required block you chimeras AV 10 side with AV 12 for protection on the flank. *Edited for layout* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Pros - Boots on the ground. No army can (except maybe orcs) can have as many capable men as you on the field. Renegades and Heretics laugh at this. Hordes are fun at 3pts per model On topic though: great work on these lists! Lots of good food fort hought. Also gaunts...supported by gaunt-poopers...oh, the hordes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Makes me want a tyranid army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mehman Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Stay the Line This list is full of guardsmen, a little armour, some “Glory Boys”, and one looming Knight. The purpose of the guardsmen is to advance, never minding the casualties, and taking and holding Objectives whilst the cannons engage the enemy at a distance. As the Knight advances, so does the battle. It will be slow going with the guardsmen and that may serve your enemy well as they will be racing for Objectives. The task at hand demands that everyone marches forwards, damn the consequences. As the Infantry Squads move up and hopefully get into cover, the Platoon Command Squads should be doing the same, always maintaining ample room for Orders to be given. The Company Command Squad, sat in the Chimera, should also be moving along with this line of men providing covering fire where needed in the form of a Multi-laser and allowing the Commander to give Orders. When an Objective is secured, the line leaves that squad to get dug-in but try to allow the Platoon Command Squad to be in the area to give Orders. Your men will survive as long as they trust in the Emperor! The Leman Russ is to be used to hold one of the flanks. With its superior firepower, who can stay its wrath? The tank can be used to obliterate enemy troops or armour with equal ease. The Hydras have been separated from each other for easier placement. Feel free to exchange the Infantry’s Krak Grenades for upgrades on the armour if you desire. Their unswerving faith in the Emperor will see them smite enemy armour with ease! For the other flank, the Taurox Prime piloted by the Tempestus Command Squad should suffice. As you approach the enemy, there will no doubt be wheat amongst the chaff. To remedy this situation, gratuitous amounts of firepower may need to be applied. Give call to the Tempestus Scions and use the Taurox Prime’s Augur Array to your advantage. Your reinforcements will arrive unerringly wherever you wish. Remember: if your guardsmen are being cut away from this mortal coil, tell them they shall see the Emperor soon and they will most assuredly fight with more vigour! Now for the final piece of the line- the Knight in Splendour! He is the centre; the lynchpin. With his shield set forward he will be victorious in any endeavour. Wield him as a mighty warrior of ancient Holy Terra would wield a fearsome axe. It is normal for guardsmen to quake in the presence of something so revered. Exhort them instead to hold the line, to do their part, and they will live forever! Pros-It is an army solely dedicated to the Emperor’s Will -The army consists of 75 of the toughest guardsmen, Scions, and Command elements -A steady push forward will mean the enemy must think quickly and, therefore, be more prone to errors Cons-As stated before, it will be slow going but the armies of the Emperor are best to be waited on for their destructive potential -One must hope they will target the Imperial Knight at the core and forget about the other sons and daughters of the beatific Emperor -As the Scions are not fleshed-out to their full complement, they need to be handled like the precious gifts from the Emperor that they are Astra Militarum Combined Arms DetachmentHQCompany Command Squad [5]Vox-casterMedi-packHeavy BolterKrak GrenadesMaster of Ordnance TroopsPlatoon IPlatoon Command Squad [5]Vox-casterPlasma GunHeavy BolterKrak Grenades Infantry Squad 1 [10]Vox-casterGrenade LauncherAutocannonKrak Grenades Infantry Squad 2 [10]Vox-casterFlamerLascannonKrak Grenades Platoon IIPlatoon Command Squad [5]Vox-casterHeavy FlamerAutocannonKrak Grenades Infantry Squad 1 [10]Vox-casterFlamerMissile Launcher-Flakk MissilesKrak Grenades Infantry Squad 2 [10]Vox-casterGrenade LauncherHeavy BolterKrak Grenades Dedicated TransportsChimeraHeavy FlamerExtra Armour Heavy SupportLeman Russ SquadronBattle Tank Hydra Battery Hydra Battery Militarum Tempestus Combined Arms DetachmentHQTempestus Command Squad [5]Tempestor Prime-Power Weapon-Plasma PistolMedi-packVox-casterPlatoon Standard TroopsTempestus Scions [5]Tempestor-Power Fist-Bolt PistolVox-casterHot-shot Volley GunMeltagun Tempestus Scions [5]Tempestor-Power Weapon-Bolt PistolVox-casterHot-shot Volley GunGrenade Launcher Tempestus Scions [5]Tempestor-Power Fist-Plasma PistolVox-casterPlasma Gun Dedicated TransportsTaurox PrimeTwin-linked AutocannonStorm BolterRecovery GearHunter-killer MissileAugur Array Imperial Knight DetachmentKnight Paladin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Some things to keep in mind when playing mechanised. - Stay in your transports taking pot shots with 2 weapons , and when time it right, unleash a wave of guardsmen from their tanks to bring the pain when required. The key to the mechanised list is when to unload the troops, to soon and you have a bunch a guardsmen with their A** hanging in the wind, to late and you won't have time to accomplish what you want. - Chimera's are Objective secured bunkers, don't be scared to plunk one down on an objective as long as the squad in side has a long range weapon, or has already left the vehicle and won't be getting back in. - Slow mobility, you can move 6" and fire your army with about a 75% drop in fire power, 12" and you loose it all. Try to figure out where you need to be a couple of turns in advance and remember you won't win the speed game, but you're not a static gun line. - Watch out for assault. Even a basic squad with str 4 weapons in melee can take down your chimeras. It maybe be better to sacrifice a squad then to allow a multi charge against your vehicles. Lose to many transports to quickly and it's over before it starts. Pros - Mobility. You can always move and still fire to some effect. - Wall of armour. Your opponents anti-infantry, and basic wepons are somewhat useless for most of the game. Cons - Low model count. For a guard army you don't have a lot of infantry, and if you don't grab priests or comissars they will be running after a few causulties. - Side AV 10. The greatest weakness of guard transports is Side AV of 10, these vehicles can be killed by a large amout of small arms if they get on your flank. - Vulnerable to assault. Once they crack your rear armour 10 shell, they get your chewy soft guardsmen centre. Comment on the highlighted bit...You'll often find that the enemy is well-protected against first-turn shooting, so it's often useful to move 12" or even 18" on turn one, even if it's lateral movement to negate his deployment strategy. Whether you do or not, it's critical to have a plan for where you want that chimera to be at the end of turn five, and know how many turns of 18" movement it'll take to get you there...and always keep in mind those AV10 flanks...if you were planning a turn 4 scoot, but the enemy screws up and blocks his own LOS on turn 3, pack it in, boys, it's time to go! The absolute bottom line on mech guard is to keep in mind that you can actually move 18"/turn, and always, always, always present front armor to anything stronger than S4 until your last planned movement (assuming you have passengers...if you don't, it's never okay to unmask a flank!) It's very easy to keep front armor towards the enemy if you're blasting away from inside your deployment zone, but almost impossible to do so if you cross into his half of the board. Moving 6" and snap-shooting most of your stuff is almost never the right move. Either sit still and pour on effective fire, or abandon shooting and put the pedal to the metal. Three turns of 6" movement gets you just as far as one 18" move. The difference is that you're snap-shooting almost everything. On the other hand, if you sit and shoot for two turns, you shoot everything at full BS. It's fewer shots overall, since you only shoot two turns instead of three, but it's a lot more hits, since you're hitting on 4s for the vehicle and 3s for the vets inside. Move or shoot, don't move and shoot! There are exceptions, of course, like moving 4" to line up a heavy flamer template. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Here's my current 1850 list: Tempestus Scion Command Squad 2MG, Vox, MediPack, Prime w/PP&PS Scion Squad 1- 8 men Tempestor w/BP&PM 2PG, Vox Taurox Prime-TBC, HSVG, Auger array, Camo netting, dozer blade Scion Squad 2- 8 men Tempestor w/BP&PM 2PG, Vox Taurox Prime-TBC, HSVG, Auger array, Camo netting, dozer blade Scion Squad 3 - 5 men Tempestor w/BP&PS Vox, 2PG Valkyrie HB sponsons, Rocket Pods Lord Commissar PP/PS, Carapace Vet squad-Carapace Sgt w/LP&CCW 3GL, Vox Vendetta HB sponsons Imperial Knight Paladin Vengeance Weapon Battery w/Battle Cannon There are no shenanigans with this army, just straight lethality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I see some pork, lol...your tauroxes have a lot of expensive upgrades, considering they're AV11. I'm also not sold on the medipak and the vox net...too many points. I'd be happier with plasma (and four of them!) in the command squad and melta on the valk squad...after all, you aren't likely to deepstrike the warlord, are you? On the other hand, the valk-riders can be dropped off at will for a little melta lovin... Also, 8 men per squad is...unfortunate. It only takes two casualties to force a panic test. If you could find 24 points...9 men means you need to lose three to test leadership, that's actually a big difference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Ok, I can work with that, I actually have some special weapons guys sitting unused that I might just turn into regular dudes, and I'll swap the medipack out for a fourth plasma gun, and I'll just counts as my vox caster guys as regular dudes, seeing as I like my squads having an RTO. The Vox caster should make the range on orders unlimited, but alas I don't write the rules. I also want to make carriages for the battlecannons I have from my Vengeance weapons batteries, so I can make some howitzers for my army, to use as earthshakers, even the 101st had artillery when I was stationed at Campbell, so if we can do airmobile with artillery now, the Imperium can do it 38,000 years from now. Then I can get rid of my fortification, and just take earthshakers for my heavy support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Forgeworld has carriage-mounted artillery, if you have the $$$. I modeled my IG as a task-organized mech infantry company: CO in a bradley (no XO) two platoons of four brads and 35 men one platoon of four tanks section of two m1062 120mm mortar carriers (a battalion asset in platoon strength that generally gets tasked down to companies in pairs) ...then the new codex made veteran squads awesome and got rid of griffons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 I don't want to spend money on forgeworld (because I don't have it). I really like air assault, and highly mobile infantry to get where I need them. That's why I have Scions riding in Tauroxes, and a vendetta, and a Vet squad in the Valkyrie. For now, I'll make do, but converting my own stuff is kinda the fun part... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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