GrunTeufel Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 165 as they are now is still to much unless your playing with alot of LoS blocking terrain. Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome 165 point SG is (from a guy who still used them at 200). I'll take 165. And although the picture is hilariously bad (seriously, you couldn't take a worse pic if you tried -- which makes me think that GW itself leaks these pics to build hype), the third entry down is clearly an upgrade that costs double-digit ponts, and the size of the characters sure looks like neither is a one so a deduce that that entry is not the price of an upgrade to a power fist, but may well be a price for additional SG. Being able to up-size the squad to 10 would be great. Considering a 5 men C:SM honor guard costs 135 pts sanguinary guard became awesome. You pay 5 pts more per marine for a jump pack. Thats a bargain. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/22/#findComment-3878255 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 interesting that the dread has moved to the already overcrowded elite selection, from heavy support. Same thing in the SW and GK codices. Probably just normalising some things across the entire astartes line. dreads were never a hs choice in the sw dex, to my memory. it was a ward brain wave. For the record, if that now ends up goin round teh interwebs I made it for B&C banter... Cuz Weez da Best :TU: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/22/#findComment-3878256 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 They don't. Furioso are our equivalent Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/22/#findComment-3878257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 interesting that the dread has moved to the already overcrowded elite selection, from heavy support. Same thing in the SW and GK codices. Probably just normalising some things across the entire astartes line. dreads were never a hs choice in the sw dex, to my memory. it was a ward brain wave. For the record, if that now ends up goin round teh interwebs I made it for B&C banter... Cuz Weez da Best matt ward didnt leave 40k alone. he only has himself to blame. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/22/#findComment-3878259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 As for Ws and bs 5 on sanguinary guard... I highly doubt it, but would love it if they were lol. Would make them 'too good' though really Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/22/#findComment-3878262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 interesting that the dread has moved to the already overcrowded elite selection, from heavy support. Same thing in the SW and GK codices. Probably just normalising some things across the entire astartes line. dreads were never a hs choice in the sw dex, to my memory. it was a ward brain wave. For the record, if that now ends up goin round teh interwebs I made it for B&C banter... Cuz Weez da Best matt ward didnt leave 40k alone. he only has himself to blame. Its their own fault for letting a fanboi near games development, if I had the chance one chaos marine would own an entire company of space smurfs (and rightfully so). But swiftly moving along before the mods pull us up for turning it into another Ward hate thread... So, thems Red Speshmahreenz huh? lookin pretty neat :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/22/#findComment-3878269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafen IX Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 As for Ws and bs 5 on sanguinary guard... I highly doubt it, but would love it if they were lol. Would make them 'too good' though really Aren't DA black knights ws5? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/22/#findComment-3878273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 165 as they are now is still to much unless your playing with alot of LoS blocking terrain. Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome 165 point SG is (from a guy who still used them at 200). I'll take 165. And although the picture is hilariously bad (seriously, you couldn't take a worse pic if you tried -- which makes me think that GW itself leaks these pics to build hype), the third entry down is clearly an upgrade that costs double-digit ponts, and the size of the characters sure looks like neither is a one so a deduce that that entry is not the price of an upgrade to a power fist, but may well be a price for additional SG. Being able to up-size the squad to 10 would be great. Actually 165 points might be pretty good if we get a decent IC with eternal warrior that can absorb some wounds. Something similar to a shield eternal chapter master perhaps? I like the models so i want to play them on ocasion regardless. If possible would also be neat if we could take a squad of 3 for 99 points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/22/#findComment-3878276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 As for Ws and bs 5 on sanguinary guard... I highly doubt it, but would love it if they were lol. Would make them 'too good' though reallyAren't DA black knights ws5? Ws 5 wouldn't be too crazy I guess. But ws and bs 5 seems too much, not sure why.. how many points are black knights? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/22/#findComment-3878280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrunTeufel Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 As for Ws and bs 5 on sanguinary guard... I highly doubt it, but would love it if they were lol. Would make them 'too good' though reallyAren't DA black knights ws5? Ws 5 wouldn't be too crazy I guess. But ws and bs 5 seems too much, not sure why.. how many points are black knights? They are not ws5 I just checked. And they are 42 points a model. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/22/#findComment-3878291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrahawk Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 As for Ws and bs 5 on sanguinary guard... I highly doubt it, but would love it if they were lol. Would make them 'too good' though reallyAren't DA black knights ws5? Ws 5 wouldn't be too crazy I guess. But ws and bs 5 seems too much, not sure why.. how many points are black knights? They are not ws5 I just checked. And they are 42 points a model. It's actually Deathwing Knights that have WS5. Another point is that our DC also already have WS5. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/22/#findComment-3878296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafen IX Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 My apologies, I knew something had it lol And it might be shameless wish listing but it would reflect their beyond veteran status :) R Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/22/#findComment-3878300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 WS5 would be appropriate for a group of guys who are described as "the uttermost elite of the Blood Angels". Although if they are pretty much the same, plus WS5, at 165 pts for five we are getting pretty darn good. I'm not going to say too good given how close combat has been nerfed, but absolutely useable. I would love seeing SG as a mainstay in BA armies rather than an increasingly rare curiosity as they are now. Good move by GW. I know I'll be heading down to my local gaming store and throwing down a few hundred on MOAR boxes of SG! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/22/#findComment-3878309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelus Mortifer Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Ws 5 wouldn't be too crazy I guess. But ws and bs 5 seems too much, not sure why.. how many points are black knights? If you think about it though, they are effectively our Primarch's bodyguard (now Dante's essentially) - stands to reason that they would be more proficient at all forms of combat over the rank and file, given the importance of their position. That's more of a fluff justification though. If DC went down to WS4, then they would need to show something that differentiates their rage-state, given that WS5 currently was one of the main indicators (obviously along with FC and FnP). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/22/#findComment-3878312 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Just had another look at that super blurry image. I am reasonably sure that the first line under options is something along the lines of "may add an additional x Sanguinary Guard ........... 32 points per model" Squeeee! LOL Ws 5 wouldn't be too crazy I guess. But ws and bs 5 seems too much, not sure why.. how many points are black knights? If you think about it though, they are effectively our Primarch's bodyguard (now Dante's essentially) - stands to reason that they would be more proficient at all forms of combat over the rank and file, given the importance of their position. That's more of a fluff justification though. If DC went down to WS4, then they would need to show something that differentiates their rage-state, given that WS5 currently was one of the main indicators (obviously along with FC and FnP). I have to say, WS increase never made a lot of sense to me for a crazed maniac. Why would you get better at fighting by being enraged? It seems to me that (even) more attacks, rending, or shred better represent the Black Rage than increased WS. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/22/#findComment-3878314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 DC nerf to WS4 keeping Rage and Relentless, down to 15 pts per marine and 10pts per jumppack sounds about right. Right? SG buff to WS5 and points down to 32 including jumppack is also quite good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/22/#findComment-3878322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricPaladin Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Hey, guys? Let's not forget that the WS chart is really weird and dumb. WS 5 is not actually that good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/22/#findComment-3878324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Hey, guys? Let's not forget that the WS chart is really weird and dumb. WS 5 is not actually that good. It's actually quite good, it means 1/6 more hits against anything that's not WS2. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/22/#findComment-3878326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafen IX Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Exactly, hitting other marines on 3+ is much better than 4+ R Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/22/#findComment-3878331 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Exactly, hitting other marines on 3+ is much better than 4+ R Yes, this. Plus you can go toe-to-toe with characters of DA Black Knights and they're hitting at 4+. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/22/#findComment-3878347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Exactly, hitting other marines on 3+ is much better than 4+ R Yes, this. Plus you can go toe-to-toe with characters of DA Black Knights and they're hitting at 4+. Oh, this also matters; if you are WS5, against anything higher than WS2 you deal 1/6 more hits AND you take 1/6 less hits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/22/#findComment-3878353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorre Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 DC nerf to WS4 keeping Rage and Relentless, down to 15 pts per marine and 10pts per jumppack sounds about right. Right? SG buff to WS5 and points down to 32 including jumppack is also quite good. 10 points for a jump pack would still be waaaay over priced 5 points would be the max I would justify on a single wound model! 3 would be perfect! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/22/#findComment-3878356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonOfThunder Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 JPs for 5 I can see, but DC for 15 I cannot, considering the regular marine is 14. But since DC changes so much from dex to dex, it's rather difficult to theorize. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/22/#findComment-3878363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnightmare Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Depends what they do with their usr/stats. At the moment, without jump packs I think they are not too bad at all (when compared to, say, Khorne Berzerkers, who admittedly usually have objective secured) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/22/#findComment-3878387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 interesting that the dread has moved to the already overcrowded elite selection, from heavy support. Same thing in the SW and GK codices. Probably just normalising some things across the entire astartes line. dreads were never a hs choice in the sw dex, to my memory. it was a ward brain wave. For the record, if that now ends up goin round teh interwebs I made it for B&C banter... Cuz Weez da Best matt ward didnt leave 40k alone. he only has himself to blame. Its their own fault for letting a fanboi near games development, if I had the chance one chaos marine would own an entire company of space smurfs (and rightfully so). But swiftly moving along before the mods pull us up for turning it into another Ward hate thread... So, thems Red Speshmahreenz huh? lookin pretty neat Guys. Think before slagging off Ward. Dreads were in the HS section in the 3rd ed codex, which is about 15 years old, and nothing to do whatsoever with Mat Ward. They go there, as to allow the BA to have greater amounts of dreads, as BA prefer dreads to other tanks as they can fight in combat. Moving them away from HS is the odd thing here. Makes me wonder what's going in there instead? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/22/#findComment-3878391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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