New HH 7th Ed FAQ

[depthcharge12]

Isn't it a toughness test after each 6 you use?

 

I don't have the new book, but if it allows you to take infinite shots, rest assured FW will nerf that quick.

[Moonstalker]

Isn't it a toughness test after each 6 you use?

 

I don't have the new book, but if it allows you to take infinite shots, rest assured FW will nerf that quick.

 

No, it's at the end of the turn in which you activate it, and it's only one T test for each wound the model has remaining.  So, 2 for an uninjured Moritat.  But then, the rule may be worded ambiguously.  I can see an argument for the rule trying to say that you get to count one, single die roll in the entire game as a six, but if that's what they wanted, they should have written that it applies to a single die roll.  As it reads currently, it applies to all dice rolled in a player turn, with the toughness test at the end.

 

ETA: And from the bit of fluff that goes along with it, I can also buy that it's supposed to last all turn.  It's supposed to turn 'simple colonists' into 'unstoppable super-soldiers' but be 'dangerous to use.'  A single six is not an unstoppable super-soldier (IMO at least), but a Praetor decapitating every member of a 5 man squad of terminators with his Paragon Blade would be.  That has some semblance of balance.  A 130 point Moritat killing a Primarch and his 10 man 2-wound terminator bodyguard does not.  I just think whoever wrote this rule assumed the balancing factor would be that a single model only gets x number of shooting attacks and y number of melee attacks in a turn, and so the damage they can ultimately do while under the effects of this is limited.  But they failed to account for the interaction with chain fire.

[Moonstalker]

And that, "decapitating ever member of a 5 man squad" thing is a bit of an overstatement.  With Paragon blade, power fist, digital weapons, combat augments, and a charge bonus he gets a whopping 8 attacks.  If they're Cataphractii terminators, they'll 'only' fail 4 invul saves, while the Praetor then gets to take his toughness tests and potentially die anyway.  You're talking about a 220+ point Praetor, here.  You would expect him to have some kind of impact, neh?

[Brofist]

Kitwulfen I am golf clapping you in real life right now. I knew that the Combat Augment Array, Cloaking Array, and Phase Walker were going to lead to shenanigans, but you have taken a cake. You have truly found the ultimate 40k combo. Anything in range will die.

 

... and I thought I was clever to suggest a deep striking melee unit that cannot be targeted until turn 2.

[Moonstalker]

Kitwulfen I am golf clapping you in real life right now. I knew that the Combat Augment Array, Cloaking Array, and Phase Walker were going to lead to shenanigans, but you have taken a cake. You have truly found the ultimate 40k combo. Anything in range will die.

 

... and I thought I was clever to suggest a deep striking melee unit that cannot be targeted until turn 2.

 

If you find anyone who actually tries these Moritat shenanigans in a game with you, you should clap them over the head with a dreadsock.

[Slips]

What if the moritat was using volkite serpentas on top of the array? Too much overkill?

[Nusquam]

Don't worry it's only one dice from the relic due to grammar. There's a reddit thread someone that explains the whole thing. There's no reason there would be an infinte combo with Moritat or the Nanyte Blaster.

[Moonstalker]

Don't worry it's only one dice from the relic due to grammar. There's a reddit thread someone that explains the whole thing. There's no reason there would be an infinte combo with Moritat or the Nanyte Blaster.

 

Like I said, I can see that interpretation, but the wording is murky at best, they switch between plural and singular for the dice rolls a couple times without substantively saying which they mean, and it's not clear whether they mean the relic can be activated once per game, or that the once-per-game is for both the relic and the number of dice.  The best sense I can make of it says 6's for the turn... partly because taking multiple wounds and paying that many points for a single guaranteed 6 is completely absurd.

 

Edit: I dug up the thread you mentioned, and they basically go into the same thing.  Do they mean "Any die rolls" or "Any dice roll?"  Who knows?

[Nusquam]

This is the third time my comp crashed while trying to type this so I'll just get my highlights.

 

The DA relic and Cloak are bad. 100% Guarantee infinite Nanyte or Moritat aren't intended and no one would let anyone get away with it. Typos all over this book, one of the Knight ranks is a mash of two versions of one rule.

 

pleasedontcrash

[Moonstalker]

This is the third time my comp crashed while trying to type this so I'll just get my highlights.

 

The DA relic and Cloak are bad. 100% Guarantee infinite Nanyte or Moritat aren't intended and no one would let anyone get away with it. Typos all over this book, one of the Knight ranks is a mash of two versions of one rule.

 

pleasedontcrash

 

I wasn't prepared to pass judgement on any of the relics for the unreleased legions, cause we don't exactly know what kind of goodies they might have or what kind of interactions there will be with their LA rules.  So the DA relic might be bad in a vacuum, but who knows what'll happen with it.

 

Gotta agree with infinite Nanytes and Moritats not being intended, though I do think combat augment array is sixes for a turn - but I wouldn't be terribly surprised if FW came out and clarified the other way.  Unfortunately, if they do go that way with the rule, then I think the relic will be a bit of a dud.

[Brofist]

Why is the cloak bad? What are the limitations that make it not useful for a deepstriking assault unit?

If you find anyone who actually tries these Moritat shenanigans in a game with you, you should clap them over the head with a dreadsock.

I'll just throw my 2nd edition chaos dreadnought at them. Then again, it might actually kill them

[1ncarnadine]

I wasn't sure on the wording for the Augment Array either but I'm pretty sure they do intend it to generate more than one 6. In the campaign creation section of Conquest, there are 3 example campaigns of increasing complexity and they mention the use of the Augment Array with a Paragon Blade-wielding Praetor, I think somewhere in the 3rd example campaign. My copy is being borrowed right now or I'd find it right away, but that might help? But I am pretty sure I read that the idea behind the example player taking it was so he could wreck things with a bunch of Murderous Strikes.

[Nusquam]

A Praetor does have a Combat Array but it doesn't say anything about multiple 6's or die/dice roll(s) just that the player wants to use the Array with a Paragon Blade.

[1ncarnadine]

Really? Weak, I definitely misremembered that one then :( The wording really is horrible on this one, they could have easiliy said "any single dice roll." As it stands I'd probably err towards just one roll to a 6, but then it feels like it's way too dangerous and expensive for its benefit. Oh well

[Nusquam]

Compared to the DA one where you're just Night Lords for a turn; It's way better.

[Nehekhare]

 

As it reads currently, it applies to ANY dice ROLL in a player turn, with the toughness test at the end.

 

fixed that for you. there is no "s" after "roll", so it's actually not ambigous. it's just not good for that many points and drawbacks.

 

arguments based on interpretations of the fluff should be avoided at all costs. Space Marines are supersoldiers that should win at all times after all.

 

The relics are overall pretty badly concieved. Most just cost way too much, some outright don't work:

 

the cybertheurgy thing, for instance, must be given to an independent character, but there are no ICs with cybertheurgy in the game.

[depthcharge12]

Yeah I wanted to run the relic just for S&Giggles, but I play against Athrawes, who uses that wonderful fearless standard bubble. Not to mention the fact that the enemy warlord can roll on the table and get fearless and give it to his unit. This happens more than what people would like to believe, but with the ability to roll two dice on the chart with a praetor, your opponent will likely get and pick the fearless to combat the DA relic.

 

I don't like the relic for the reason of too many what if's. The above situation, fearless vets, and Death Guard will all ignore the box of doom. All units, IF they even reach close combat (which is more likely in 30k), must then activate it, which also relies on a leadership test to fail.

 

As opposed to say the BA relic which works 100% of the time you reach cc, or the various cloaks/shields that block damage.

 

I'd honestly make the DA relic a 5 point piece of war gear due to balance. I mean hell, you could even roll Bloody Handed on the warlord chart and gain fear for free!

 

;.(

 

Oh why Lord Bligh? Why doest thou forsake us?!

[Moonstalker]

 

the cybertheurgy thing, for instance, must be given to an independent character, but there are no ICs with cybertheurgy in the game.

 

 

Wow, that one's a really good catch.  I had to look to be sure, cause I have yet to actually play against anyone who's using Mechanicum.

 

 

fixed that for you. there is no "s" after "roll", so it's actually not ambigous. it's just not good for that many points and drawbacks.

 

I'm still a bit iffy on that.  It's clear they've mucked up the grammar/wording of the rule for that, and we could go back and forth indefinitely on which word(s) are singular/plural that should be otherwise.  With how messed up some of these other relics are sounding, though, I could probably get on your side about how bad this thing actually is.

[Kraytirous]

The harsh reality is that the Combat Augmentation Array has the same problem the pendant-which-shall-not-be-named from the old Dark Elf book had.

 

The logical interpretation of the rule allows for two results: an underwhelming and over-costed item, or an under-costed and over-powered delete button.

 

Remember that this game is not Magic, the Gathering. Infinite loop combos are unprecedented and safely dismissable as unintentional. The reality is that the relics were intended to spice up campaigns as free hand-outs. Hence being slightly over-costed for the bad ones and underwhelming for the powerful ones.

 

You choose to interpret it as weak, you'll never use it. You choose to interpret it as OP, you'll never get a game in, so you'll never use it. The result is the same, the means are redundant.

 

EDIT: pardon thread-o-mancy, didn't realize the age of the OP.

[Caillum]

Mods, could we please get the recent Age of Darkness thread about the newest HH 7th Edition Errata merged with this one? Seems pertinent given it's about Rules. :)

[Hesh Kadesh]

I woukdn't have thought it neceaaary. All the inclusions from this 2014 FAQ are in the latest Jan 2016 FAQ or further modified, clarified and rectified to the point where the complaints aren't relevant.

[shandwen]

So, a question to modernize this thread a bit: in the Faq (jan 2016) legion mortis dreads have the word talon added to thier name. Does that name change allow us to take three per foc slot?

[PastelAvenger]

So, a question to modernize this thread a bit: in the Faq (jan 2016) legion mortis dreads have the word talon added to thier name. Does that name change allow us to take three per foc slot?

No, a Talon can consist of one Dreadnought there has been no rules change to make it so you can take multiples of these in a Dreadnought Talon. It's more for fluff.

[shandwen]

 

So, a question to modernize this thread a bit: in the Faq (jan 2016) legion mortis dreads have the word talon added to thier name. Does that name change allow us to take three per foc slot?

No, a Talon can consist of one Dreadnought there has been no rules change to make it so you can take multiples of these in a Dreadnought Talon. It's more for fluff.

Ill also mention that only the contemptor-mortis does not have talon now.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Probably typical FW not having a clue. I'd have thought it would be in reference to things like Rites of War being able to reference 'Dreadnought Talons', as in 'Dreadnought Talons may take Dreadnought Drop Pods in a 1:1 ratio as dedicated transports; if one Dreadnought has a Dedicated Transport, all must take one.' Each talon (including dedicated transports) is considered a single unit for the purposes of Deployment, Drop Pod Assault and when rolling for reserves.'

 

But of course, that doesn't work, as Deredeo, C-Mortis, and maybe Leviathan's are not included within that, nor does combining the unit when deploying via something like a Non Dedicated Transports like Thunderhawks etc.