Relics

[1ncarnadine]

It is nowhere near the worse.

 

Used with a bit of luck you can have a 2++ champion who can tank for you.

The Dark Angels one is just.... unbelievable. Really. I mean, just terrible.

The White Scars looks cool, but it lacks the strength to target fliers or heavier models.

The Ultramarine one is a gimmick power sword that might come in useful 1/5. Unlike the EC one it relues on your opponent fielding an uncommon piece of wargear.

 

The Ultramarine relic in particular is also pretty bad, because other than challenging a Breacher sergeant you're probably going to see shields on terminator units, and it's AP3. Not only that, but if you're playing pretty standard loyalist vs traitors games I'm not sure you're ever really even going to see an opponent with shields other than Breachers, since it's more of a loyalist thing. Phalanx Warders, Medusan Immortals, I guess the Ultramarines themselves are getting a special unit with shields... Maybe Templar Brethren with combat shields? But hey, all loyalist. 

 

A lot of this AP3 stuff doesn't make sense to me, especially if you're paying more than a Paragon Blade already and not even keeping a nice rule like murderous strike. I'd be tempted to houserule the majority of the AP3 CC weapons to AP2...

[Theredknight]

I lent my copy to my brother dark angel one? Besides, I'm sure da will get some sweet rules when released!

 

I don't think for a minute that paying 40pts for a 'chance' to tank some wounds, only to be instant death'd is worth it at all. It's pretty bad for a character who has to, by ec rules challenge everytime.

You may hold out a turn, maybe 2, but if your opponent is rolling enough attacks (Khârn) soon you will fail. For me, first time

[Theredknight]

I'm pretty much forced to take combat shields with my characters as I end ec have to challenge. And if lost -1 to ld of the unit. If won ------ lol

[Raktra]

The DA one is causing fear once per game. Possibly to every enemy in combat, but still. Woop-de-doo.

[Slips]

The Imperial Fists one is also of Questionable use...The fluff for it, totally cool with it and it works. The rules though...

 

If they expanded it to a 3++ to Flamers and Melta on top of Eternal Warrior It might've proved a bit more worthwhile; especially in Zone Mortalis games.

[Moonstalker]

The Imperial Fists one is also of Questionable use...The fluff for it, totally cool with it and it works. The rules though...

 

If they expanded it to a 3++ to Flamers and Melta on top of Eternal Warrior It might've proved a bit more worthwhile; especially in Zone Mortalis games.

 

For certain, it made the list due to its price.  I already wrote some new homebrew rules for it, to make it a +1 to invul (max of 3+), plus a cost adjustment.  I suppose tonight I might do some tweaks to the EC and UM weapons, because their lack of AP2 does hurt them quite a bit.

[Emperors Teeth]

damn that does sound awesome. hmmm maybe putting one on a moritat with phase shifter would be good? I dunno but I want it in 40k X-X

No particularly good reason to put it on a Moritat, as it's not a pistol. Combo with the Phase Shifter and Combat Augment for maximum disgustingivity, though .

[Tiger9gamer]

and how much would that cost? if it's too expensive you could put them on a regular centurion too?

[helterskelter]

I've gone ahead and modelled a man catcher for a PA praetor, the strength reduction ability could prove most useful.

[defl0]

The void shield looks good for a glass hammer unit like a dark fury squad. Immune to bolters is pretty strong as it ignores overwatch and the like. 

[hivey]

heres a question ive had recently brought up. can these be used in any normal game, or can they only be used in campaign games?

[Emperors Teeth]

Yes they can be used in normal gams. There's extra rules for campaigns.

[defl0]

Wonder if they are allowed at adepticon...

[Brofist]

The void shield looks good for a glass hammer unit like a dark fury squad. Immune to bolters is pretty strong as it ignores overwatch and the like.

I think its good for large blobs you want to protect from orbital bombardment, helldrakes, and other template/large blast templates.

 

The question is, how would it work if only part of a large unit was covered? The relic description sounds like just the guys underneeth.... but if this was the majority of models would all shooting attacks directed at the unit go through the shield first?

[hivey]

got an email back from FW

 

Hi [redacted].

 

Thanks for your questions.

 

1. A character can have multiple relics.

 

2. A Combat Augment Array only allows one dice to counted as a 6.

The relics are really designed to be used in Campaigns but if your gaming group are happy with you to use them in one-off games then please do so.

[Carnivore]

What's the consensus on the Space Wolves relic? I didn't see any comments in other threads on it so I just thought I'd add that to the discussion. I didn't see any mention of the Burning Claws only replacing a cc weapon if taken, so doesn't it give a Wolf praetor or consul in terminator armor the option of dual cc weapons (beyond the stock twin LCs)? Fits their fluff, at least, and rules-wise a praetor with a Burning Claws/Paragon Blade combo or a Burning Claws/Chainfist combo would be monstrous IMO.

[Hesh Kadesh]

You are correct that it doesn't force you to trade a weapon, let alone melee for melee or whatever.

 

It's... Unclear. Do you get a Pair of Claws? Do you only get one? The fluff suggests both, but the weapon profile suggests it is a single one; does that mean you only get one claw, or does that combine profiles? How should I model it? Who knows? Unlikely even FW knows what's going on with Relics.

 

As to how good it is, for most purposes, it's a MC'd Lightning Claw with +1 Strength. Compared to a standard Lightning Claw, with 75% chance to wound, you have an 88% chance to wound; which is better than +2 Strength Weapons up until T9 models or T3 multiwound models. You lose out to the Paragon Blades AP2 and Instant Death abilities.

 

It gives you S5 Armourbane (typical result is 7; considering you're mostly going up against things like Dreadnoughts or Knights in CC, with AV12+ that puts you at a disadvantage compared to a meltabomb, despite its single attack, as typical Meltabomb grants penetration roll of 15 with AP1 for a chance to destroy.

 

So;

 

MC'd Pair of Lightning Claws, Meltabomb = 45pts

MC'd Paragon Blade, Meltabomb = 45pts

Burning Claws = 40pts

 

Paragon Blade trades 75% wound chance for 67% wound chance, AP2 and Instant Death change; letting you take on enemy Terminators. MC'd Lightning Claws trades 88% wound chance for 75% wound chance and +1 Attack.

 

Of course, there's nothing preventing you from taking both - but the chainfist does defeat the point of the Burning Claw (with the exception that you normally cannot take both Claw+Chainfist), but that's a 30pt tax on what's normally only a 10pt upgrade.

 

And while Monstrous, I'm not entirely sure why it's all that different from any other beatstick Praetor with a Forge Lord in tow other than it might save you a couple more points because you don't need the Rad Grenades for a 2+ to wound charge; that's what, maybe the cost of a Rhino saved between the two?

 

So it's not bad, but it's not a must take either. If you just run the Claw, it's kinda bad, because the lack of AP2 could lead you hung out to dry if you fall foul of the challenge system, while you could just take a Paragon Blade and be fine in CC.

[depthcharge12]

Anyone able to make a conceivable plan to use the WB conversion dissonator? Seems like it would hurt you just as much as them.

[1ncarnadine]

Anyone able to make a conceivable plan to use the WB conversion dissonator? Seems like it would hurt you just as much as them.

 

Not especially, it's pretty meh. You could potentially run it with a Praevian and target enemy terminator units, since at worst you're losing the pretty weak 6++ atomantic save on Castellax.

 

I guess jetbikes are another option, as they're under no threat of sabotaging themselves and can position themselves to make decent use of the Dissonator's bubble. 

[Hesh Kadesh]

Biker Character with Relic

10 Bikers with Plasma

Be'lakor

 

Move the Bikers forward with their Scout Move, and have Be'lakor Swoop forward so that he's within 6" of at least one of the Bikers, but 12" away from the Relic Bubble. Shrouds himself and those bikers within range. Bikers now have a 2+ Jink, and -2 to enemy Invuln saves with Rapid Firing Plasma.

[Carnivore]

Hesh Kadesh - you broke that down beautifully and provided a lot of insight, so thank you for the clarification. I'm just wading into the world of 30K, so the relics piece of things is, as you put it, unclear to me as well. I'm rolling Night Lords at the moment, but as a Wolves player in 40K, I've known and loved the Chainfist/Wolf Claw Wolf Lord well, so I was just curious to see if he had a place in 30K too .

[spu00sed]

I want to like the lucid blade, but it is too expensive.

 

Paragon blade, lucid blade, digital weapons and iron halo is more than the cost of the praetor, but does allow him to have 4 (5 on the charge) S5 ap2 attacks and a 2++ save.

 

I want to love the combo, I just can't bring myself to. It still takes that one failed save for him to be splatter by a thunder hammer/ power fist.

 

It is too expensive for what it does. especially since we can't afford to lose challenges and gain nothing from being forced to be at them (glares at imperial fists).

 

I would much prefer the blood Angels weapon, just because it has AP2, the extra rules are just gravy.

[Hesh Kadesh]

That combination is actually growing on me, although I'd probably take Chainfist and Lucid Blade on a Cataphractii rather than in Artificer. It doesn't have the same glamour as a pair of swords, but it does grant the +1 Attack, and the ability to swing at I6 on the charge against combat squads. I think if I was to model it, i'd probably instead model it as a combination of a chainglaive crossed with a Phoenix Spear in that manner. 

 

Photonic Blade; paying 50pts for Fear (5pts, according to Night Lords), Blind (happens at end of phase, and ignored on a 5+ considering you're attacking enemy heroes most likely, which is 10pts from a Breacher Shield, but lacks the Invuln, so I'd say around 5pts), and Soulblaze (50% chance of causing D3 S4 hits (average 2 wounds, 50% wound chance vs MEQ's = 1 wound, which they get a 67% chance to save?)... You do get AP2, but really? I'd much rather take a Paragon Blade. 

 

The Parthinian Serpent is another weapon I want to be impressed by; S6 AP2 Heavy 1 (on a Bike, obviously) with Skyfire Interceptor, Pinning, Precision Shots, and full BS when making Snap shots, means it's always hitting on a 2+. Against flyers though, he only has a 50% chance of dealing damage (T6/AV10), which they can then Jink, meaning that you're spending 50pts on a Plasma gun that can only fire 1 shot, really. I'd prefer if it was the more like the Aiolos Launcher, even D3 shots, or Armourbane.

 

Also, the Grav Gauntlet. As awesome as it sounds - the idea of a Gorgon Terminator squad with a couple of Terminator Forge Lords with Graviton Guns and a Praetor and Ferrus with this coming down in a Kharybdis dropping 8 Haywire hits on a target first turn is immense. But aside from that, Concussive is a terrible special rule unless fighting Curze/Corax and they're 2+, Haywire can affect buildings anyway (and is actually called out explicitly as being able to do so in the rulebook), and it allows you to roll +D3 on that time you managed to roll a 6 on the Building Damage chart. Useful, I suppose, if someone's bringing an Aquila Macro Cannon or Vortex Missile to the game, but really? Wouldn't you much rather be dropping those onto the Glaive or Warhound that someone will have brought at that level of play too?

 

Barbaran Thurible; this is a relic. Why can it not reduce the ID threshold? Sure, it leads to broken stuff with Rad Grenades, but dur, a) it's a Relic, b) Death Guard need all the help they can get that doesn't rely on spamming as much Endurance as possible on their Scoring Volkite Culverins.

[Raktra]

Bear in mind there's Fleshbane in the BA sword, too.

[Hesh Kadesh]

No idea how I missed that in all the times I've read it.