Talon of Horus

[Loesh]

I can't put into words how freaking useful I'm finding this thread, and how grateful I am for the insight I'm stealing from you all.

Glad to be of service.

But yeah, Abaddon to me comes off as someone who has an indescribably complex relationship with the people around him, not just with the Black Legion, but across the entire Eye of Terror. By the time we get to the 13th Black Crusade we come to a point where the other Traitor Legions, not just the Black Legion, are following his lead to smash into the Imperium and end the Long War once and for all, possibly even with the Daemon Primarchs coming along for the ride. This doesn't lead me to believe Abaddon was just this thug who had a hate on for all of their gene-fathers, in fact I wouldn't be terribly surprised if he actually comes to friendly terms with a lot of Daemon Primarchs who recognize that he had the potential to succeed where they failed, and see that he's the true scion of Chaos that their patrons desperately need to break the Imperium once and for all.

That's why whenever I see a debate about 'Abaddon vs The Primarchs' I sort of roll my eyes, I doubt their conflicts are so banal. In fact aside from Angron it's quite possible with the Primarchs Abaddon almost never has to fight at all, in turn Abaddon would have to recognize the value of the other traitors legions and the unique skill sets they have and would be hard pressed to pull off with the same amount of skill in the Black Legion. To him, this war eventually comes to something far larger then building his own legion, he's working towards getting the entirety of Chaos to fight at his side, with something as irrelevant as if they are wearing the Black not crossing his mind.

Because going back to the Genghis Khan analogy, why would he pick fights with entire Legions over their paint scheme and what they believe? It'd be incredibly petty and would put his empire at risk, sooner or later the people would get fed up with it and his rivals both inside and outside his organization would cast him down. So instead I picture he largely leaves everyone alone so long as they pay their dues and take up arms when the Black Crusade comes calling, That's what I look forward to seeing most, his dealings with the Emperors Children after the Legion Wars and in spite of how hard they fought with each other, still convincing them to help smash their way out of the Eye of Terror and into the Imperium. How he'll meet with the Warlords and self proclaimed Kings of other worlds, and proving to them that he has a worthy cause to lend their swords to.

Ultimately, that's where we'll really see Abaddon grow, we focus so much on how he fights the other Legions and seems to be this 'bully' who absorbs anyone who isn't wearing his colors. To extent that's true(Because these are the traitor legions after all, and there will always be infighting.) but at the same time I don't see the Black Legion operating like that on a macro scale, it can't realistically operate that way and survive. Rather what will put Abaddon apart from his peers in many ways will be his wisdom and diplomacy as often as brute strength of arms.

That's a side of Abaddon we haven't seen, and the much more believable side to him then the idiot who opens fire on your ship in Battlefield Gothic because you failed a command test.

[Wade Garrett]

But wait. I'm not done rambling yet.

 

Someone on another forum criticized LotN by saying "The only difference between Sahaal and Acerbus is what particular kind of deluded nonsense they spout off before they kill a bunch of innocent people."

 

To me, therein lies the draw of Chaos as a faction. That is to say, so much of 40K is justifying the unjustifiable. The Imperium throws billions of conscripts into meat grinder wars to die like animals? Has to be done to stop the Orkz.

 

Destroy a planet with Exterminatus? A mercy compared to letting Tyranid infestations or Chaos corruption consume it.

 

Literal thought police? Thinking wrong thoughts can literally break down the barriers that make sure the monsters from outside reality STAY outside reality.

 

And this brutality, this savagery, this oppression and repression and "sacrifice this to save that"...it isn't done by cackling madmen and women twirling their mustaches, but by those who believe themselves to be doing good.

 

Now we look at Chaos. At the armies of the damned, essentially the vanguard of Hell. Not that they think of themselves as such. That is...of course you have Chaos Marines who say "I'm strong, the galaxy is full of the weak, RAAAR!" And that's all the introspection they ever put into it, but those fellows don't interest me.

 

I want to see what rationalizations and justifications you weave for yourself when you are...well, the vanguard of Hell. I want to hear the tales the Traitors tell one another that makes their every action justified if not just, how they make themselves believe that they are the heroes of their own sagas as they butcher, burn, and desecrate. That's why I find a Talos or a Sahaal more compelling than a Xarl, why Argel Tal gets my attention and Marduk gets my contempt.

 

And yes, it's lies and delusions and half truths and hypocrisies of the highest order all woven into a web of self deceiving bull:cuss as the Chaos Gods have a giggle at your expense...but such are the things I look for in my Chaos protagonists.

[Karthak]

Speaking of the whole "our fathers were failures" thing, I wonder if there are any Chaos Marines who have pointed out, in a slightly bitter fashion, that in contrast to the traitors, the loyalists all seem to have dads who had their :cuss together. Horus even rants about this in Warmaster, by John French:

 

"Calth burned, yet our brother lives. Roboute. Wise Roboute. Roboute with his scratching quills, his plans and his hope. Too understanding, too strong. Too damned perfect.’ Horus let out a long breath, and turned back to his empty throne. ‘I wish he was with us.’ With a flick of his bladed fingers, the throng of images vanished and silence flowed back with the returning shadows. Horus shook his head, his eyes still fixed upon the throne. ‘You would say that I listened too much to Alpharius and Lorgar – that a war fought with deceit is doomed to fail. Perhaps you would be right. The Hydra does not see all, and now his blindness places a knife at his own back. Corax would not have made such an error.’ He gave a mirthless laugh. ‘Strange is it not, that so many I wish beside me stand against me, while at my back are only the flawed and damaged. I am a master of broken monsters."

[Wade Garrett]

With the notable exceptions of Vulkan, Corax, and Leman's respective variations on "Daddy's going out to grab some smokes, you kids take care of the house till I get back" *peaces out for ten thousand years or so*, perhaps. :p

 

Also, "Corax would not have made such an error" is hilarious in light of the events of Deliverance Lost.

[Conn Eremon]

Glad you found something of entertainment out of that thing. But even still, I think Horus had a point. There are Primarchs and Legions that are defined more by their flaws than their successes, though all had an adequate dosage of both, and those who sided with Horus tended to be part of the former camp over the latter.

 

Though really, it mostly comes across that these entities were defined first and foremost by where they stood at this time, and all other attributes added to flesh out this initial point. Easier, and more obvious, to have those who will fall be defined by their flaws while those who remain loyal be defined by their virtues. For a long time, all the information we had was superficial, with all the baggage that term implies.

 

More recently, those lines have been both blurred and made more evident, depending on the author, narrator and context.

[Wade Garrett]

Well, yes.

 

I can't remember if I posted it here or somewhere else, but if the two sides were (American) football teams, the loyalists can mostly do their thing, even if Lion & Guilliman disagree about who should be the quarterback and the Khan has his bottom lip stuck out so far his mustache has disappeared.

 

Then you look over at the Traitors. Angron doesn't care what play is called, he's going right up the middle and sacking the quarterback no matter who has the ball.

 

Curze is off on the sidelines skinning cheerleaders, Fulgrim is off in the locker room doing unmentionable things to the mascot, Alpharius is somehow up in the stands selling hot dogs, and Magnus won't even get off the bus and suit up.

 

"From this I'm supposed to make a Heresy?"

~Horus Lupercal

[Captain_Loken]

I really enjoyed this novel a ton. I'm extremely anxious for ADB to come out with the rest of the Black Legion novels.

 

With him coming out with the SW series now, it might take a tad longer than I would really care for.

[Lucien Eilam]

With him coming out with the SW series now, it might take a tad longer than I would really care for.

 

I don't think he is. Ragnar Blackmane is the first in the Space Marine Legends series, not a Space Wolves series. It looks more like the Space Marine Battles series, where every book is a different author.

[Captain_Loken]

I must of misread. That's what I meant.

 

I'm hoping that's the case.

 

I really want a BL series already. Haha

[Augustus]

Wade:

You had Curze killing the mascot and Alpharius was the referee ;)

[Loesh]

Wade:

You had Curze killing the mascot and Alpharius was the referee

Why can't Alpharius be both?

[Conn Eremon]

Wade:

You had Curze killing the mascot and Alpharius was the referee

Why can't Alpharius be both?

One person can't be in two places at once, silly.

[Loesh]

Spoiler: The cheerleaders Curze is skinning, the Hotdog vendor, referee, and the mascot Fulgrims fondling are all in fact Alpharius.

 

So is Magnus, it's why he won't get off the bus.

[Captain_Loken]

Have they released any dates for the second part of this?  I think the title is Black Legion.

 

Even any rumors would be a big help to me!

[Perrin]

I haven't even heard that it's being worked on yet.

[Loesh]

Have they released any dates for the second part of this?  I think the title is Black Legion.

 

Even any rumors would be a big help to me!

 

Nah, the second book in the series is Talon of Horus 2: Electric Boogaloo.

 

The book will not show either Abaddon or the Talon of Horus once, instead focusing on the Black Legions boring domestic life and Fabius Bile doing all sorts of zany shenanigans while he's in custody, with all the actual battles being off screen. Highlights include Lheorvine getting the anger management he desperately needs, Telemachon obsessing over fashion as he tries to impress the Warmaster, Topknots, Falkus Kibre being completely unrememorable, unrememborable? Yes, unrememorable, and in the deepest part of the Eye of Terror, a certain pair also finally get over their social awkwardness to express their unrequited love.

 

Khayon: "My love for you...is like a truck....BESERKER."

Nefertari: "Oh you fool, kiss me."

[Fire Golem]

I wish I had more to add to the discussion here but I'm not as insightful as you guys. I just really loved the book. ADB is my favourite BL author and this was possibly my favourite book I've read of his. Finished it a few days ago and it's been on my mind since. I was trying to stay with Horus Heresy stuff from GW but I kind of want to make a Black Legion warband now...

 

But I really like the point that Abaddon built a legion from scratch while the Primarchs were more or less handed theirs (examples like the Thousand Sons aside). One of the things that's always impressed me about Abaddon is that he's managed to build a legion of Chaos Marines who would otherwise be trying to kill each other, and actually keep them focused and together. Looking at it purely that way, he's almost a better leader than the Primarchs, because he's had a much harder job. And it was really interesting to see his early start in this.

 

But yeah. Not much to add really, but can't wait for the next one.

[Vesper]

The second book is The Black Legion. The third is supposed to be called Chaos Ascendant.

[Loesh]

I imagine in both those cases, there's going to be a lot more time skipping then Talon of Horus as we jump to the relevant points in the Black Legions history and eventually the 41st millennium. 

[Vesper]

It ain't going to be a trilogy, it's something much more ambitious. For instance The Black Legion is meant to illustrate the actual founding of the Black Legion, the curbstomping of the warbands and the First Black Crusade. So the 13th is kinda far on the horizon.

[Captain_Loken]

The more, the merrier when it comes to Black Legion novels.

[Conn Eremon]

It is still only a trilogy, last I heard. If I am recalling correctly, the intent is that, if successful and the author desires it, it can readily be made into a more continuous series along the same lines as Abnett's Guaunt's Ghosts.

 

While that is still possible, and I think probably very likely, I don't think it's been confirmed. Until it is, the only thing confirmed is that it will be a trilogy.

 

Personally, I would really not mind reading up on a much larger series dedicated to Abaddon, the Black Legion and the Black Crusades. They sorely need attention, especially if it's to the same quality found in the Talon of Horus. While some of its characters and their development weren't my favorite of AD-B's, I really liked the depiction of Abaddon and absolutely :cuss ing loved the lore given to the Eye.

[A D-B]

It is still only a trilogy, last I heard. If I am recalling correctly, the intent is that, if successful and the author desires it, it can readily be made into a more continuous series along the same lines as Abnett's Guaunt's Ghosts.

 

While that is still possible, and I think probably very likely, I don't think it's been confirmed. Until it is, the only thing confirmed is that it will be a trilogy.

 

I'm not even sure a trilogy is confirmed (these days, I take nothing GW does for granted; things change very often) but it's always been intended to be a series from the conversations I've had - at least since it's earliest incarnations. Just a series with an opening trilogy.

 

I think back when I originally pitched it 5ish years ago, it was only two books, but since then it's been intended as a series at GW's suggestion. One I was more than happy to go with. Assuming sales stay strong, it should go the distance.

[Conn Eremon]

Ah, fair enough. Thanks for the intel.

[Firepower]

 

It is still only a trilogy, last I heard. If I am recalling correctly, the intent is that, if successful and the author desires it, it can readily be made into a more continuous series along the same lines as Abnett's Guaunt's Ghosts.

 

While that is still possible, and I think probably very likely, I don't think it's been confirmed. Until it is, the only thing confirmed is that it will be a trilogy.

 

I'm not even sure a trilogy is confirmed (these days, I take nothing GW does for granted; things change very often) but it's always been intended to be a series from the conversations I've had - at least since it's earliest incarnations. Just a series with an opening trilogy.

 

I think back when I originally pitched it 5ish years ago, it was only two books, but since then it's been intended as a series at GW's suggestion. One I was more than happy to go with. Assuming sales stay strong, it should go the distance.

 

 

http://reactiongif.org/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/09/Excited-GIF.gif

 

Wait, I'm being giddy about the potential for a long running series glorifying the heretics of heretics...my priorities are all muddled. Damn you and your evil ways, A D-B!

 

Have you got exclusive rights (for want of a better term) on this series?  I mean, anyone can write a book about Abaddon and the Black Legion (I think?) but could other authors be brought in to fill it out, in the same way the Horus Heresy is a conglomeration of BL's best and brightest?  But I suppose if such a thing were even possible, it'd have to be hugely successful for GW to throw more authors at it.