Robster The Lobster Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Something that interest me about the first crusade is, why Drach'nyen? I know that it is a very powerful, cool and possibly shiny. But why gather a crusade just for that blade. For me it must be a deliberate reason. I mean he could have used that army and tried to bind a powerful daemon into a newer and even prettier blade. So looking forward to learning more about Drach'nyen and the reason he called an entire crusade for it. Also... With Sigismund´s death, the last living link to a time when heretics was loyal disappear from the Emperium. That must have had an impact on, those that are there to witness it. I mean Sigismund was once a brother to them. Not some weak blood third cousin once removed on your father’s side relative you only meet at some random funeral. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300714-talon-of-horus/page/5/#findComment-4185362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogmagog Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Hang on, I think I must be late to the party, sigismund gets smushed by abbadon? Where? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300714-talon-of-horus/page/5/#findComment-4185687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Hang on, I think I must be late to the party, sigismund gets smushed by abbadon? Where?Nowhere. It's a fan theory popping up about what will happen in Black Legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300714-talon-of-horus/page/5/#findComment-4185728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loesh Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Hang on, I think I must be late to the party, sigismund gets smushed by abbadon? Where?Nowhere. It's a fan theory popping up about what will happen in Black Legion. I can't wait until Abaddon single handedly beats every Daemon Primarch in 1vs1 combat! ...That's a joke, before someone thinks i'm serious. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300714-talon-of-horus/page/5/#findComment-4185754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Hang on, I think I must be late to the party, sigismund gets smushed by abbadon? Where?Nowhere. It's a fan theory popping up about what will happen in Black Legion. I can't wait until Abaddon single handedly beats every Daemon Primarch in 1vs1 combat! ...That's a joke, before someone thinks i'm serious. What would be the point ? Draigo already did that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300714-talon-of-horus/page/5/#findComment-4185813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster The Lobster Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Hang on, I think I must be late to the party, sigismund gets smushed by abbadon? Where?Nowhere. It's a fan theory popping up about what will happen in Black Legion. I can't wait until Abaddon single handedly beats every Daemon Primarch in 1vs1 combat! ...That's a joke, before someone thinks i'm serious. What would be the point ? Draigo already did that. He defeated them all, and then he tagged them. So they would forever learn their place. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300714-talon-of-horus/page/5/#findComment-4185820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Khayon has a lot to say about all of this, a lot to say about Sigismund, and a lot to show about how Abaddon was affected by it. Emphasis mine. This is the part that I want to read the most about. Abaddon the character has never been more than whatever mission he is on and - with respect to this most exellent novel - this is true up to and including Talon of Horus. I think your short story, "Abaddon: Chosen of Chaos" is about the only thing I've read that humanizes (is the term appropriate?) him, or, at any rate, makes him feel like a character with feelings, priorities, etc., versus simply The Great Threat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300714-talon-of-horus/page/5/#findComment-4186084 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Draigo ....t is so hilarious i can't even take it seriously. Especially from the previous GK codex. But Abaddon killing old Sigismund that's easy. Sigismund became very old - he was not in the Warp. Abaddon has a daemon weapon, support and haven't aged at all - plus he is on the rise, First Black Crusade is ongoing after all. The point of their meeting is to show how old 'King Conan' meet his adversaries from the throne. Plus A D-B will probably will leave a scar on Abby, to make the fight fair Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300714-talon-of-horus/page/5/#findComment-4186090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 well if it's during the First Crusade, then Abaddon won't have Drach'nyen yet since Drach'nyen was the whole point of the First Crusade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300714-talon-of-horus/page/5/#findComment-4186233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
goosey_j Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Even so. Abaddon is still in his prime and has the eyes of the gods on him at this point, and Sigismund is looking to be older than Dante, but without the magic Blood Angel Forever Young™ genetics. When I first heard this was happening, I have to admit, I was very sad. The unbeaten champion finely laid low. But I've come to terms with it. The greatest loyalist warrior the galaxy has ever seen should be laid low by the greatest threat the galaxy has ever seen. I still fervently proclaim though, had Abby and Sigismund met at Terra, there would've been a very different end to all this. P.S. Zorbulon til I die. It's the best thing ADB's ever written. That is until the above mentioned duel of course. :cuss, can we get Zorbulon t shirts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300714-talon-of-horus/page/5/#findComment-4186251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster The Lobster Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Even so. Abaddon is still in his prime and has the eyes of the gods on him at this point, and Sigismund is looking to be older than Dante, but without the magic Blood Angel Forever Young™ genetics. When I first heard this was happening, I have to admit, I was very sad. The unbeaten champion finely laid low. But I've come to terms with it. The greatest loyalist warrior the galaxy has ever seen should be laid low by the greatest threat the galaxy has ever seen. I still fervently proclaim though, had Abby and Sigismund met at Terra, there would've been a very different end to all this. P.S. Zorbulon til I die. It's the best thing ADB's ever written. That is until the above mentioned duel of course. , can we get Zorbulon t shirts? I love the character, but part of the reason I jumped the bandwagon is that I think that his death at the hands of Abaddon would be so epic. The last link to an age now forgotten by the Imperium he now protects, make his last stand. Not only would it have an impact on those that witness it. Khayon, or any other black legionary. But it will probably make a martyr out of him, the ancient warrior who refused to die until he could get his chance for vengeance. Basically every Astartes of the Black Templar will have stories about this event throughout the millennia´s to come. Sure there is sadness. Sigismund is one of the greatest heroes of the Imperium. But in war everybody dies, sooner or later. The question, the only question really if you are an Astartes is. How do you face your own mortality? On another note, just finished the Ahriman series, short stories and the novels. Must say that Ctesias is probably one of my favorite characters as of late, and John French have gone into my list of must buy. Why do I mention it here? Well, I think one of the things French did awesome with Ctesias was the corruptive nature of daemons. Sure they are strong, and could most probably kill you. But the most dangerous thing about them is just knowing their true nature. Loved how Ctesias actually get hurt by knowing a daemons true name. And since Khayon basically specialize in the same area, I hope to see Khayon struggle with the burden of the daemons he collects. That was in retrospect one of the things I missed in ToH, he was more afraid of losing control of the Ragged Knight (not saying that that would be a good thing btw), then the consequences actually summoning it. Thinking about it, I don´t think anything acutally happened to Khayon when he summoned it. But I can be wrong about this. Was awhile since I read that part. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300714-talon-of-horus/page/5/#findComment-4186286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 We need Zorbulon t shirts A D-B! Sigismund at the Siege of Terra would have annihilate Abaddon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300714-talon-of-horus/page/5/#findComment-4186288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loesh Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I'v always been wary of duels in the Warhammer series ever since that garbage with Nyoka Sharrowkyn and Lucius, especially duels that are outside the established lore. Hopefully the one with Abaddon and Sigismund goes better, I can't imagine it not since at the very least Abaddon isn't some no name Raven Guard line trooper. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300714-talon-of-horus/page/5/#findComment-4186586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Abaddon in HH and Abaddon post Heresy are 2 different persons. If the Heresy Abaddon is quite a bull, you simply can't like that piece of .... then Abaddon in W40K is a dreamer, visionist and true believer Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300714-talon-of-horus/page/5/#findComment-4188464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Spoiler: Abaddon doesn't defeat Sigismund. A line black legionary shoots him in the back of the head during the fight. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300714-talon-of-horus/page/5/#findComment-4188798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loesh Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Abaddon in HH and Abaddon post Heresy are 2 different persons. If the Heresy Abaddon is quite a bull, you simply can't like that piece of .... then Abaddon in W40K is a dreamer, visionist and true believer ...Unless you're in Battlefield Gothic or the Pandorax campaign, then he's a blithering idiot. The 'Failbaddon' Meme is misguided, but I doubt anyone would argue that Abaddon hasn't always been portrayed well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300714-talon-of-horus/page/5/#findComment-4188801 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Every author has created his personal vision of Abaddon and added a lot to 'Failbaddon' Meme. But A D-B has created a truly interesting character with the Talon of Horus. And First Black Crusade should cement his rise. What i'm truly afraid off is that all the next book - Abaddon would be killing Imperial worlds and SM with just a stare. Cause as Aaron mentioned it somewhere - nobody expects them to return. I could only hope that A D-B will not create a 360 pages one-sided massacre of loyalists. After all - Sigismund should have his moment to shine. Imperium SM aren't called the Angels of Death for nothing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300714-talon-of-horus/page/5/#findComment-4189423 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loesh Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Every author has created his personal vision of Abaddon and added a lot to 'Failbaddon' Meme. But A D-B has created a truly interesting character with the Talon of Horus. And First Black Crusade should cement his rise. What i'm truly afraid off is that all the next book - Abaddon would be killing Imperial worlds and SM with just a stare. Cause as Aaron mentioned it somewhere - nobody expects them to return. I could only hope that A D-B will not create a 360 pages one-sided massacre of loyalists. After all - Sigismund should have his moment to shine. Imperium SM aren't called the Angels of Death for nothing. I wouldn't say he's an interesting character yet: He barely even shows up in the Talon of Horus, and that seems to be the intent, it's the lead up to the Black Legions formation and plenty of fans are less then convinced about Abaddon still, partially because said book isn't really about Abaddon. It's the next book and the book after that will determine if Abaddons a solid character or not. Also I doubt it: I actually expect Abaddon to lose some of his early fights, Mary Sues aren't really ADBs style, or even Black Library's style with the rare exception. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300714-talon-of-horus/page/5/#findComment-4189806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 If by shine, you mean the light reflecting off his spilled blood, then yes. Sigismund will have his time to shine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300714-talon-of-horus/page/5/#findComment-4189953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Not too crazy about the Abaddon killing Sigismund...but ADB tends to thrive on writing controversial scenes, Night of the Wolf for example Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300714-talon-of-horus/page/5/#findComment-4190188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loesh Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Not too crazy about the Abaddon killing Sigismund...but ADB tends to thrive on writing controversial scenes, Night of the Wolf for example Well, i'm curious. What do you think should happen to Sigismund? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300714-talon-of-horus/page/5/#findComment-4190334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Probably that Sigismund should rally the day and beat Abaddon back into the Eye, in complete defiance of literally all the background ever written about the First Black Crusade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300714-talon-of-horus/page/5/#findComment-4190393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Not too crazy about the Abaddon killing Sigismund...but ADB tends to thrive on writing controversial scenes, Night of the Wolf for example On the contrary, I loathe controversial scenes. But that was far less controversial than the possibilities it quenched, which was that "We know the Wolves have fought Space Marines before because they keep saying so, and it looks like it was the Lost Legions" which wasn't true, and it needed to be countered. I like what it said narratively about the World Eaters, but I still made that fight out to be almost hilariously 50-50 because I knew there'd be uproar if anyone "won". And biased weirdos on both sides still rage that it was unfair "they" "lost". But as a side note, what's controversial to some folks is of almost no consequence to others. I don't think Sigismund being the most defiant Space Marine ever to live and refusing to abandon the vigil for the Traitors when the rest of the Imperium thinks they're dead - as well as having the honour of dying to the literal Antichrist of the Warhammer 40,000 setting - is particularly controversial. I think it's the kind of death any knight, Spartan, Space Marine, or son of a warrior culture would yearn for - essentially because it is. Some people will lament the mystery being peeled back (which I can fully accept; there are plenty of mysteries I don't want revealed) and some people will rage that I "hate loyalists" or whatever (which is nonsense and betrays the tawdry way they approach the setting and their terrifying lack of perspective) but no, I don't see this one as particularly controversial in execution. Also of note, and as explained before, there's a difference between "Abaddon kills Sigismund" - which is genuinely all some people will see - and what the scene actually is, and what it'll mean, in context. Achilles kills Hector. But it's not a fight in a vacuum. It means a great deal, and a great many things. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300714-talon-of-horus/page/5/#findComment-4190434 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 A D-B as always to the rescue Thank you man - you write cracking stuff! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300714-talon-of-horus/page/5/#findComment-4190453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 "And how can a man die better, than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his father, and the temple of his god." The Lay of Sigismund circa M32 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300714-talon-of-horus/page/5/#findComment-4190524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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