Phoebus Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I know this topic is primarily for games set in the Age of Darkness, but I figured I'd post it anyways, since it concerns the Lion. In Horus Heresy IV, Strategic Warlord Traits are presented as ... ... an optional set of abilities which players can use to represent the strategic vision and martial genius of their army's overall commander. A normal Commander-in-Chief randomly generates one of six such traits. Primarchs, however, ... ... were created to be the most potent leaders of Mankind's hosts. ... Note that some Primarchs gain more Traits than other, for as history relates, not all sons of the Emperor were created equal as leaders. Most of the Primarchs have either two pre-determined Strategic Warlord Traits, one pre-determined and one randomly determined, or two randomly determined ones. Horus, on the other hand, always has "Spymaster" and two randomly determined Traits. Guilliman gets to choose any three he wishes from the list. Angron has none, but - depending on the roll - may deny the enemy Commander-in-Chief the ability to use theirs on that Campaign turn. Alpharius is arguably the most versatile; he has access to all six, but may only use each once per campaign. The Lion... Well, brothers, this sadly incomplete record pretends that the Lion simply has access to Master of Timing and one randomly determined Strategic Warlord Trait. That's right, my friends. The Lion is sadly determined to be, more or less, average. But hey, from the second that our Legion Relic was a non-face-melting version of the Arc of the Covenant from Indiana Jones, should we have been surprised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Nope, not surprised at all. It seems everyone at GW/FW/BL except A D-B and Dan Abnett think the Lion and his kin are a bunch of muppets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 lMaybe they are retconning the Lion and his Legion ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share Posted December 22, 2014 I hope not. It's a hell of a retcon to go from "Second only to Horus" (in terms of conquests) to "somewhere in the pack". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 1st legion is best legion, why does that babyman guilleman get nicer toys exactly? I can think of a lot more generic primarchs than el johnson. Preturbo comes to mind, as does lorgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillyfish Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I'll hold off on making a decision until I see the rules for the Lion and the Legion. It may be that warlord traits aren't the only way to represent the First Legion and that there are some additional army rules we don't know about yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I'll hold off on making a decision until I see the rules for the Lion and the Legion. It may be that warlord traits aren't the only way to represent the First Legion and that there are some additional army rules we don't know about yet. the lion better be a cc beast machine and our special units should breath fire on command the way our legion rules are looking so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabbala Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Remember that each Legion has their own army-wide rules and rites of war. They're not represented solely by the warlord traits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I too am waiting patiently with my half empty cup for the full info on the HH Legion and the Lion himself. The issue with how our rules have nearly always been written (not fluff, there it is clear that we should be top tier) is that we don't get stuff that stacks. For example the BA get better at fighting through their mutant anger AND then get better weapon options, the same goes with the SW but in slightly different ways; we generally get average skills and average weapon options or they are extremely hard to synergise and don't get utilised more than once against any one opponent. The net result is that they end up two 'power' steps better than us for similar points. Has anyone looked at the SW thread on how to get 15 S8 attacks out of a Wolf Lord? Any of the options mentioned in that thread are worlds better than anything we could muster with our average dex even using BA allies. Although I agree with many here that we should be different from the angry pups and vampires by not being too beatstick oriented, there becomes a point where the opponents beatstick just can't be avoided. Also, the fluff is clear that our Liege is the freaken MAN in a scrap so a bone would be nice there, maybe just in the form of decent sword rules for our little plastic men to keep them a bit closer to the arms race. Another would be to make him and his mini-men tactical geniuses without peer like the fluff states on many occasions over the years, yet another would be to make him and his progeny expert swordsmen relative to other marheens, yet another would be to give us some non-xenos ancient tech like is mentioned in several places...........blah blah blah, yup we've heard it all before in this Forum I was kind of hoping that Forge World in it's infinite wisdom and glory would seek to rectify some of the issues but it seems that at first glance that will not be the case. At least my cup is half full of Whiskey ...Merry Xmas Grinch to you all. Off topic, I had a three-way game on the weekend, DW=15vp, BT=7vp, Tau=4vp. Got beaten down hard by stronger forces but played the mission as cunningly as I could and held objectives with minimum survivors. Even Belial survived for a change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 I too am waiting patiently with my half empty cup for the full info on the HH Legion and the Lion himself. The issue with how our rules have nearly always been written (not fluff, there it is clear that we should be top tier) is that we don't get stuff that stacks. For example the BA get better at fighting through their mutant anger AND then get better weapon options, the same goes with the SW but in slightly different ways; we generally get average skills and average weapon options or they are extremely hard to synergise and don't get utilised more than once against any one opponent. The net result is that they end up two 'power' steps better than us for similar points. Has anyone looked at the SW thread on how to get 15 S8 attacks out of a Wolf Lord? Any of the options mentioned in that thread are worlds better than anything we could muster with our average dex even using BA allies. Although I agree with many here that we should be different from the angry pups and vampires by not being too beatstick oriented, there becomes a point where the opponents beatstick just can't be avoided. Also, the fluff is clear that our Liege is the freaken MAN in a scrap so a bone would be nice there, maybe just in the form of decent sword rules for our little plastic men to keep them a bit closer to the arms race. Another would be to make him and his mini-men tactical geniuses without peer like the fluff states on many occasions over the years, yet another would be to make him and his progeny expert swordsmen relative to other marheens, yet another would be to give us some non-xenos ancient tech like is mentioned in several places...........blah blah blah, yup we've heard it all before in this Forum I was kind of hoping that Forge World in it's infinite wisdom and glory would seek to rectify some of the issues but it seems that at first glance that will not be the case. At least my cup is half full of Whiskey ...Merry Xmas Grinch to you all. Off topic, I had a three-way game on the weekend, DW=15vp, BT=7vp, Tau=4vp. Got beaten down hard by stronger forces but played the mission as cunningly as I could and held objectives with minimum survivors. Even Belial survived for a change i too felt the joys of pummelling black templars this past week, nothing is more satisfying than tracking a land raider redeemer after its barely left a deployment zone and then feasting on the tears of crusader squads with the monster hunter of caliban. grimaldus had a lot of mustard, he fought off 5 assault marines and ten scouts before he got sniped by a pred with a lascannon. was a pretty unlucky game for my B&C buddy redmapa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 I imagine that the lion will be fast or at least faster than leman russ because that's how the story goes. Also I wonder if he will have plasma the dark angels have quite a bit of plasma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Probably fast plasma that gets hot on a 4+, just saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 I wouldn't be surprised if FW is able to repeat the quest of making the FIRST legion, in case nobody noticed i say again FIRST, the worst of the pack... Somebody in GW must really hate the DA to keep doing this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaSY Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Do note that the warlord traits for Lion and Russ are kinda the same hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 It's too soon to start woe is me folks. I know the track record is not exemplary but We don't have a book or a Primarch model. A lot of things can change until then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 True words good Chaplain, but teh interwebz does like a good sky falling event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 True but we don't even have a sky yet :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.