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I have always been facinated by the Primarchs. They lead the Legions for 200 years and conquerored the galaxy... only to threw it what they had build into chaos. What went wrong? I believe it especially has something to do with their characters. Some of these Primarchs Character flaws are more obvious than others: Fulgrim's perfectionalism, Angron's survivors guild and uncontrolable rage Magnus's arogrance and ihubris... but others seems less clear to me; Lorgar, Rogal Dorn, Ferrus Manus, Alpharius Omegon and Jaghatai Khan they are a bit more tricky to me... Anyone can elaborate on these? I believe that Lorgar greatest flaws was his vanity and hubris Rogal Dorn - his single mindedness and a pitfall (unwillingness to bend) Ferrus Manus - his inability to view the beauty in human fragility and simplesity (in that way his is kind of inhuman and disstorted) Alpharius Omegon - their complexity, self-evaluation/measurement of their own greatness and inability to be open to other than a selected group Jaghatai Khan - Pride, withdrawness, isolation... Perhaps more... What do you think?

"Alex?" Alexandros, Shield-Lord of the Halcyon Wardens, swung green eyes toward his companion. Pyrrhicles stood beside him, his aged features wrought into worry. Alone among the Halcyon Wardens, Pyrrhicles was not an Astartes. Instead, he was a man who had been gifted all the Imperium could offer to bring a man a step towards an Astartes. His lined face revealed Pyrrhicles was fighting a losing battle against time. Alexandros focused on the hidden depths of anxiety within his friend's eyes. Few things could inflict such a state on the veteran champion. The Primarch gathered his thoughts before he stated the horrible truth wracking his mind. "The Emperor is gone." Confusion joined anxiety as Pyrrhicles absorbed the news, comprehension far from him. "Gone?" Straightening himself in his throne, Alexandros saw the entire bridge crew's attention was upon him. "Damage report," He ordered, his voice ringing strong and clear. The task broke their reverie. As they bustled with their new task, Alexandros whispered to Pyrrhicles' ears alone, "Gone. The Emperor is no longer with us." A fearful pause blocked the half-Astartes for a moment. "He is slain?" Pyrrhicles asked, his voice a ghost of a whisper. Was he? Alexandros wondered as his eidectic memory recalled the event. After a moment, a measure of relief passed through Alexandros. "No. No, it is not his death I have sensed." That left confusion and similar relief upon Pyrrhicles' features. "Then, how is he gone?" Alexandros' lips twisted into a frown. "I... don't know." His eyes swept across the bridge of the Elpis. "First, let us deal with the disaster we can control."

Hello everyone. So I kind of created this account to pick all of your brains about a question which has been driving me mental. Does anyone remember seeing or even better have a series of portraits of the Primarchs by an artist that has seemingly scrubbed their presence from the face of the Internet? The style was, as best I can describe, somewhere between stained glass and a tarot card. With each of the primarchs in profile shot like the bust of a head on a coin. The backgrounds were thematic, for instance Lorgar's background had the grey flowers of his homework, the Lion's had a forest with eyes of the beasts of Caliban peering through the branches and so on and so forth. I swear I'm not insane, and sorry if I've posted this in the wrong section, but I'd really like to see if I can find it.

Almost two months ago I made a thread asking if anybody had seen a series of Primarch portraits that I vaguely recalled. I'd given up on finding them, but today I managed to stumble across a few of them by chance! I'm very happy to share the ones I have found with all of you. Turns out I wasn't crazy after all, which is always a relief. If these jog the memories of anybody, and they have the missing ones of Corax, Khan, Horus, Perturabo, El'Jonson, Mortarion, Alpharius, or Vulkan please don't hesitate to post them below!

The Terran Conclave When the last member of the War Council arrived on the surface of the Throneworld, the long awaited event began. Around 2,000 individuals would now collectively decide the fate of, not only of the Imperium, but of the galaxy. Due to the vagaries of Warp travel, a great deal had already been discussed by earlier arrivals. As such, while Malcador attempted to present each member of the War Council with equal standing, it did not take long to deduce that it wasn’t the case. In fact, it was doubtful it could ever be the case. Malcador, while more of an administrator than a warrior, benefited greatly from his close relationship with the Emperor. The fact that he opened the conclave and managed its proceedings were both subtle signs of his authority. The Questions Should we choose a replacement Emperor? If not, should we choose a regent? If not a single regent, should we establish a permanent ruling body? Any strategic change in regards to the Great Crusade? Should a new office be created to oversee the Imperial military separate from the potential regent? Any major changes to Imperial law/structure beneath the highest political office? The Factions Malcador - Although more concerned with the Emperor's absence, he will be a vocal voice for a proper bureaucratic system to replace the current ad hoc system. He himself does not want to become a regent, preferring to be the power behind the throne. However, if he cannot find a satisfactory replacement for the Emperor, he might reluctantly support a ruling council. Otherwise, he might feel he has to become regent to protect the Emperor's vision. Regardless, he supports the Great Crusade continuing as is. Kelbor-Hal and the Mechanicum Supremacists - This faction wants nothing less than to see Mars rise in prominence in the double-headed eagle empire. Unfortunately, they understand they have no hope of replacing the Emperor with Kelbor-Hal. Instead, they seek to prevent any one individual from replacing the Emperor, desiring a ruling council with Hal assured a position. Additionally, they want to re-open forbidden technological avenues and rewrite Imperial law to more favor the Mechanicum. Lord Militant Elveen and the Human Supremacists - Although accepting the Emperor's initial authority, this body wishes to replace the Primarchs and Malcador with mortal men, to shift power away from the immortals toward themselves. A number of dissenters and potential rebels hide within this faction. They would be happy with a ruling council that could weaken or outright exclude their political opponents. Should they come away unsatisfied from the Conclave, treachery will not be far behind. The Torch-Bearers - This faction has convinced themselves the Emperor will soon return. As such, they oppose any and all changes to the Imperium. Without the Emperor's guidance, they warn, only folly can ensue. The Successors - This faction believes it is necessary to appoint a regent to lead the Imperium until the Emperor's return. Outside of this one answer, their members range everywhere in regards to the Great Crusade's strategy and changes to Imperial law. This is one of the largest factions attending the Terran Conclave. The Council-Men - Believing no one individual, even a Primarch, could hope to match the Emperor's wisdom and power, this faction advocates the distribution of power among a group. This can range from simple, dual leadership all the way to turning each and every member of the War Council into a proper ruler. Many members of the Mechanicum can be found here who don't share Hal's zeal for Martian ascendancy. The Consolidators - While they could care less about who rules the Imperium, they are greatly concerned about the aims of the Great Crusade. They fear the loss of the Emperor's might might have crippled Imperial potential. They advocate all offensive operations be temporarily frozen to concentrate on holding the Imperium together through this time of transition. The Crusaders - Opposing the Consolidators, the Crusaders believed maintaining the Great Crusade's momentum was as important as it had ever been. They feared any pause would destroy humanity's one chance to make the galaxy safe for humanity. The loss of the Emperor was not crippling, they believed, since the Imperium could call upon the Primarchs to continue leading the war effort. The Primarchs Araphel - The First-Found claimed that as the eldest of the Primarchs, it was his right to become Regent and to continue leading the Great Crusade until the Emperor's return. It is with some irony that much of his priorities overlapped with Malcador's. However, the latter viewed Araphel as Regent with no small amount of apprehension. Romulus - Long a firm advocate of all things Imperial, Romulus was one of the more conservative members of his brotherhood. He was an emphatic voice for both Regent and to continue the Great Crusade as before. Little should change, in his opinion, other than who temporarily occupied the Emperor’s throne. Absalom - A controversial figure as ever, Absalom unsurprisingly argued for Regent and placed himself squarely in that position, as the natural choice he assured the others. He promised he would lead the Imperium to new greater heights for both crusade and empire. Theoderaf - Theoderaf was primarily concerned with diverting units to find the Emperor. Until the Emperor's return, he did not care what temporarily held power, even offering himself as a regent. On the Great Crusade, the Primarch was split, believing it practical to freeze offensive operations but wishing to continue them. Alexandros - Above all else, Alexandros' primary goal is to promote stability within the Imperium. Acutely aware of the weakness lurking beneath the surface, Alexandros does not care what form that stability comes in, so long as it does come. The Ash-Blooded - One of the rare voices advocating for a brand new emperor, the Ash-Blooded defended himself by warning that the Imperium had no means of knowing when (if) the Emperor would return. As such, it should prepare itself for the long-term instead of crafting a short-term plan. He was also one of the unapologetic supporters of the Legions. He believed it that the warriors who had sacrificed so much deserved to be more than a simple arm of the Imperial war machine. Finally, he feared the widespread chaos would allow further disturbances of the ethereal variety. He pushed for additional forces to contain what he deemed the 'psyker threat' and proposed additional restrictions upon pyskers of all stripes. Tenzin - Long known for his idealism, Tenzin would soon become a quick supporter of both Council and to benefit the citizens of the Imperium. He feared the consolidation of power into one individual and believed a ruling council would be more apt to command with wisdom. In regards to the citizenship, Tenzin had always been personally disgusted by the Feral Worlds and how many planets within the Imperium had been denied a chance to advance their technology. It was this oversight he sought to fix. Koschei - Long having marked himself an idealist, Koschei was perhaps the loudest voice of change within the Imperium. While others aimed to increase their own power, Koschei lead a push to limit the ad hoc aristocracy, declaring it necessary to enact reforms for the common people to enjoy. It was this viewpoint that lead him to arguing against emperor and regent. The only acceptable alternative in his mind was a ruling council without permanent members. He was also a strong proponent to halting the Great Crusade until the New Order was properly established. It was these views that made him an ally to the Consolidators and, surprisingly, of the Human Supremacists & the Mechanicum Supremacists. Lukas - The fiery Primarch of the Obsidian Guard became one of the loudest members of the Crusaders. Any attempt to halt Crusade operations he viewed as a betrayal. To facilitate this, he proposed, the Primarchs with representatives of other Imperial Institutions, should form a council to chart the course of the Imperium. The number of Councilors should always be an odd number to avoid stalemates with abstainment prohibited. All other matters could not grab his attention, making him a key opponent against both the Martian and Human Supremacists. He would also become a strong supporter of Malcador's proposed bureaucracy. The Horned One - Already a noted defender of the forgotten members of the Imperium, the Horned One did not allow the opportunity to fight on their behalf pass him. A vocal Councilman and reformist, he fought for the abhuman population among the Imperium even as he agreed to Hal's requests for additional respect and power be granted to the Mechanicum. However, he would not countenance Hal's arguments for previously banned technological branches, fearing the dangers within. Niklaas - Never a political animal, the Lord of the Fire Keepers watched the proceedings with frustration but ultimately did not establish any stances other than declaring the importance of establishing Imperial Juris throughout the galaxy. Aato - Resentful of being pulled away from campaign, Aato refused any and all factions. Cursing the politicking before his eyes, he was a neutral force in the Terran Conclave. Azus - The Ghost of the Sands seeks to replace the Emperor with a single individual of transhuman nature. In regards to the Great Crusade, he is in favor of consolidation and cares little for Imperial law. To the surprise of Kelbor-Hal, Azus would soon become known as a friend to the Mechanicum. Morrigar - The Lord of the Fifteenth was a vitriolic opponent to investing any one individual with the power of emperor or even a shadow of it. He would become an ally of Kelbor-Hal to a degree as he supported granting the Mechanicum additional power and undoing restrictions on research. Finally, he too recommended the Great Crusade be halted to focus on the empire's interior. Chui - Believing no individual was suited to replacing the Emperor, Chui instead fell back to the traditions of his homeworld. When deprived of a great leader, a council was summoned to serve. Thus, Chui supported the Councilmen. The Jade General - More of an observer for the initial stages of the Terran Conclave, he did push his support toward a council. [?] Caelum - Strong member of the Successors, though he had no personal desire to fill the office himself. Believing the Emperor's discovery to be of higher import, he saw regency as only a temporary office. Because of his belief that a great portion of the Imperial military needed to be re-tasked to find the Emperor, he advocated the Great Crusade continue but far less aggressively than before. Gustave - The consummate doctor, Gustave cared extremely little for the Conclave and even resented being pulled away from his work. His sole interest was in Koschei's popular reforms.

This is a long terms project that I started, based on the Tarot Primarch Theory and kick started by some other Alt Heresy projects that I had been reading. Thought could benefit from the input of a dedicated space marine fanbase. Looking to start with the Legions, then look at the Great Crusade, and finally the Heresy itself (or schism/Primarchomachy/War in Heaven2.0 as it turns out to be. Heresy is being used as a stand-in until that's sorted). Aiming for the style of the Black Books. Hoping for some constructive criticism or whatever other insight people might have. The Legions developed so far are at what I'll call ''public alpha' stage, and revisions will almost certainly be needed in light of what is written for later Legions and possibly the GC.

The new Lion El'Jonson model revealed in the Warhammer Preview is absolutely spectacular. Everything about just works perfectly and the paint scheme absolutely nails the feel of the First Legion in 30k. Needless to say, I feel very happy I'm putting together a Dark Angels list for 30k.

Alexandros Darshan VonSalim hissed with pain as the Eskut magi pried off the last melted steel from his body. Apothecaries, in white and purple, stepped forward to see to his health. Molten adamantium criss-crossed over his bare, muscled chest. A lesser being may have gone into shock from the pain alone, but Alexandros was a Primarch, one of eighteen exemplary creations of science and war. This wound would not end his life. “My lord,” Zhivka, the Legion’s ranking apothecary, began. “We will have to operate. I could prepare a number of sedatives-“ Alexandros offered a pained grin. “Unless you have nerith on hand, there’s not much point.” The downside of having enhanced regeneration. Alexandros feared very few toxins, but could not benefit from tranquilisers. “I have my own methods. Begin immediately.” Another downside to enhanced regeneration. Skin was swiftly growing around the solidified metal. The apothecaries would have to cut into their Primarch before they could remove the adamantium. The longer they too, the more they would cut. As Alexandros laid his head down, closing his green eyes, he called upon his impressive mental powers. To a degree, pain was illusory. It may travel through nerve cells, but all pain had to be allowed by the mind to register. Alexandros placed a mental wall between himself and the pain as the surgeons cut into his body. Instead, he locked himself within his own mind to pore over his newest orders. His being was already spoken for. He was to travel to the Qarith home world to play a small part in their necessary extinction. With such a small role, he would have to choose among his battalions a mere few to accompany him. The rest would be divided between those that required rest and those ready for the next battlefield. He immersed himself in this task, until a dim awareness alerted him of Zhika’s success. He steadily rose back to physical reality, finding recent pain already dulling before his body’s impressive self-healing. There were advantages of being a Primarch Alexandros would never complain about.

Hey there, just had a quick look on the Primarch series' cover artist and found this one, which was uploaded about 2 months ago: Maybe it doesn't mean anything at all and I'm purely speculating but somehow, I got the feeling that the Lion might be the next one after Curze. I mean, he's the one doing all the covers for the Primarch series. Him posting a Lion piece, which really looks like said covers is a bit too much of an accident, right? Cheers, Kel

Right, so as many men and their dogs may recall from the initial Horus Heresy trilogy, in addition to the subsequent "Each Primarch represents a facet/aspect of The Emperor" line, there's *also* a statement by Horus that they all apparently embody one of the twenty Zodiac symbols. [Horus, for those unaware, being Sagitarius - here, reconstrued somewhat, albeit in rather understandable fashion, to be a horse-archer ... archetypal emblem of #GangSTEPPE, and not at all coincidentally, with a subtle hinted linkage to one of the Horsemen of the Apocalypse] This has been subject to much analysis over the past decade and a half, and some pretty insightful conclusions and suppositionals have been rendered in the course of things. However, I'm not aware of the idea having been picked up *too* terribly much by subsequent authors. Until, possibly, now. A comrade recently started reading French's "The Solar War", and sent me a few excerpts detailing some rather curious symbolism that appears like it *might* be a continuation of this rather nifty imagery-approach - and which may offer further clarification as to ... well, a few things, including *just which Zodiacal system has twenty symbols in it*. I don't *think* there's anything particularly spoilery here from what I'm about to quote , especially decontextualized .. but your mileage may vary. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- First up, there's these two lines. They're from a few paragraphs apart, but I am of the opinion that they are deliberately, as it were, "echoey": "Symbols crawl over the crystal: a half-man half-equine, water falling from a cup, a figure with the head of a bull. [...] ‘The others know,’ says Malcador at last. ‘The Khan, the Angel, the commanders… Rogal, in particular." Now, there's three points of interest here. The first is, presuming that they're deliberately 1:1 coterminous, this gives us a further astrological association - Rogal Dorn as Taurus. Which, given the emblematic qualities of a Taurus, seems pretty logical indeed. The second is the bit about water falling from a cup, potentially linked to Sanguinius [i.e. "The Angel"]. Now while I initially thought "Aquarius", subsequent consideration suggests something *else* may perhaps be going on here - namely, that this is *actually* referring to the constellation of Crater. A quick check of the mythology and symbolism around Crater will show some potential relevancies and resonances with that of Sanguinius, although this could still go 'either way'. I mainly mention it because if it is in fact correct, it would strongly support the utilization of the 21-sign 'ecliptic zodiac' [at least, I think that's what it's called?] which somebody suggested many, many years ago as a potential resolution to the "where are the other eight signs coming from" problem. The third, however, is the "half-man half-equine" figure bit. Which is either Jaghatai Khan, for reasons which should be obvious .. or it's Horus again. If the former, this either means there are some 'double-ups' on astrological signs as Primarchs, in which case the 21 sign thing is redundant and we *can* get by on a standard 12/13 ... or it's a case of similar 're-interpretations' to how we got "armoured figure with big sword" out of "scorpio" , meaning that one of them 20/21 constellations has come to be a half-man, half-horse figure *in addition* to Sagitarius. Anyway, it goes further. "Golden rings gleam on his fingers: a ram’s head, a rayed sun, a grey opal. " These're the rings The Emperor is wearing. There are a few possibilities as to what's going on here - including that each ring represents a Primarch [perhaps the opal as Vulkan due to fire effect?], or that each ring represents a part of the Imperium [perhaps the ram's head stands for Mars? Or the Imperial Army?], or that each ring represents ... well, something else [e.g. the opal perhaps representing the moon, therefore giving us a sun and moon - both important elements in astrological practice, when they wind up 'in' signs]. However, as applies the 'ram's head', I suspect that what's actually going on here, is The Emperor is wearing an Aries ring. Why is The Emperor wearing an Aries ring? Well, it's the First of the Zodiac, a leader, especially in the field of war, impetuous and imperious, and so on and so forth. If the 21 sign ecliptic zodiac *is* the one being used , and there are 20 Primarchs, that therefore logically entails that the 1 'remainder'/unassigned sign must go somewhere else ... and where better than Their Father. Now, I have a few other thoughts as to 'logical' placements for the other Primarchs based around this 21 sign Zodiac sequence (and more especially, the surrounding/underlying mythology, symbology, and some linguistics of several of these), but I might comment on those later - some of it's relatively obvious re-hashery of stuff that's been said in years past; others, rather less commonly held opinions [for example, I'm not huge on Gemini being Alpharius/Omegon - and instead believe that *Pisces* is probably the better ensign for Them]. But as a further note ... this line also stuck out to me. I have no especial facility with Tarot, although others [particularly this guy] have made some rather nifty insights in the previously. It is presented here for completeness, and in case it ties back into the astrological symbolism. "The man in gold begins to lay cards down on the stone bench between the bowls. The cards are old and the images on them faded: a figure in a dark cloak, its face turned away, climbing towards a high tower; a wolf-headed man with a bundle of swords hidden beneath a cloak; a wheel of stars turning around a darkening moon" Thoughts? And I'd be interested if anybody has any further instances of Zodiac etc. symbolism turning up in the HH novels for further cross-comparative analysis.

Apparently this anthology was available during the last weekender and it was either an event-exclusive release or Warhammer World exclusive (I think, from what I have found online). I just heard about it and from what I have been able to read on the wiki the stories seem interesting, however since it's an exclusive release for now I can't read it. Has anyone who was at the weekender bought a copy? If so, how is it?

So I got bored, and wondered how the Primarchs stack up against each other. Since they don't all have the opportunity to fight each other in the fluff, I used the rules sections from 1d4chan to make this chart. NOTES: - This doesn't include Psychic powers, so if you add those Magnus obviously jumps way higher, right into the top tier with Leman and Horus (which makes sense, he nearly beat Russ and the wolf is undefeated) - Lorgar also jumps up significantly but he's harder to measure considering he's never truly beaten another Primarch in the fluff - Russ is undefeated, which probably doesn't make sense considering Horus mortally wounded the Emperor. The rules have Horus pre-warp-steroids, so it's safe to say that Horus post-Molech can beat Russ - I couldn't find matchups of Magnus against Guilliman or Horus. Without psychic, its safe to say Magnus loses both. With, Guilliman loses, Horus will probably lose (pre-Molech Horus though) - Alpharius is truthfully the worst, not Lorgar because he can draw on psychic. Considering Alpharius lost a fluff fight with Dorn, who is also a low-tier Primarch, this makes sense (Alpharius is also described as the size of a large Astartes, so not very intimidating) - This doesn't include the Lion, Sangiunius, or the Khan as they don't have rules yet. The Lion fought Russ into a close tie in the fluff, so he should be top tier (perhaps better than pre-Molech Horus) - Sanguinius isn't really on record fighting any Primarch except post-Molech Horus, which could probably kill any Primarch. Still, he's awesome so probably middle-tier at least - The Khan has beaten Mortarion in the fluff, which means he's probably mid-tier at least, though I doubt he's on the same level as Leman Russ Anyway, maybe people will find this interesting!

A little corner of B&C to discuss this release in all it's varied formats by Mr Thorpe. Those looking forward to this release may find this new blog post from Gav quite interesting, always nice to get an authors insight into what influences they drew upon when penning a story. There was also a great tweet from Gav to ADB back in Jan which made me smile on the sheer level of detail he's going into with this book. Consider me quietly excited for this one!

http://www.blacklibrary.com/coming-soon/october/primarchs-fulgrim-ltd-ed.html THE STORY Lord of Chemos and bearer of the Palatine Aquila, Fulgrim, primarch of the Emperor’s Children, is determined to take his rightful place in the Great Crusade, whatever the cost. A swordsman without equal, the Phoenician has long studied the art of war and grows impatient to put his skills, and those of his loyal followers, to a true test. Now, accompanied by only seven of his finest warriors, he seeks to bring a rebellious world into compliance, by any means necessary. But Fulgrim soon learns that no victory comes without cost, and the greater the triumph, the greater the price one must pay... Written by Josh Reynolds