ValourousHeart Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Can you put 2 priests in a unit? If you do can they both use a different War Hymn? Would the priest use his own leadership or the unit's leadership? Was thinking of adding a priest to a big unit with Jacobus and try and get the reroll saves and wounds. Maybe give this priest the Litanies of Faith to make sure all of the hymns and acts go off. Or do you think that this priest is not worth the points? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301339-2-priests-in-a-unit/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Yes on multiple priests. Yes on different Hymns. Be sure to read the War Hymns special rule; a model with the rule takes the test. If passed on of the 3 hymns immediately take effect. Going by that: 1 - You do not have to say which hymn you are trying to use until after a successful roll. 2 - Every model with that rule in a unit gets to test. 3 - You may use different hymns and you may also have have multiple models using the same hymn. They could all use Smash, for example. Each model uses his own Ld unless there is something like the Beacon of Faith rule that lets a model another's leadership. Jacobus +1 works well. Shred and a re-rollable 5++ are fantastic when paired together. Litanies of Faith is well worth the few points it costs and it works on acts of faith too. If you add a second priest to join with Jacobus you really should give him this relic. At 40 points total, it's still a bargin. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301339-2-priests-in-a-unit/#findComment-3906893 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full_ork Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Don't characters use the highest leadership in the squad for tests? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301339-2-priests-in-a-unit/#findComment-3927205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 No. Units use the highest leadership in the unit for tests, but the War Hymns are the character making a Ld test on their own, independent of the unit, so they have to take it on their own leadership. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301339-2-priests-in-a-unit/#findComment-3927353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriltic Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Ill double check that asap but Im pretty sure the Priest uses the highest Ld available due to it still been a Ld test. Same with a character using an AoF, if for some reason her Ld was dropped. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301339-2-priests-in-a-unit/#findComment-3927381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriltic Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Also Im not sure why but this thread so should have been called 'Two Priests, One Unit' :') Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301339-2-priests-in-a-unit/#findComment-3927385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banjulhu Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Independant Characters inside units are considered part ofnthe unit for rules perposes Leadership tests are taken on the highest leadership value in a unit unless another rule specifies a specific value should be used Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301339-2-priests-in-a-unit/#findComment-3927421 Share on other sites More sharing options...
geitmeise Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I'm pretty sure it got clarified in 7th ed. that the priest uses his own leadership for War Hymns, but I need to check this aswell. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301339-2-priests-in-a-unit/#findComment-3927501 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banjulhu Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 War Hyms is still written as "A model with this special rule can take a Leadership test at the beginning of each Fight sub-phase in which he is locked in combat. If the test is successful, choose one of the following war hymns to immediately take effect." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301339-2-priests-in-a-unit/#findComment-3927564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I thought this was the beginning to a joke. Like 2 priests in a unit...decided to have some fun...tired of all the war stuff...blah, blah, blah. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301339-2-priests-in-a-unit/#findComment-3927668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The logic goes that the rule specifies that the model takes the test. There was a 6th edition FAQ that said that the priest specifically had to take the test, or something, because at some point everyone suddenly agreed that he had to test on Ld7. But it's not in the 7th edition rulebook anywhere other than the psychic phase that models have to test on their own leadership, not their unit's leadership. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301339-2-priests-in-a-unit/#findComment-3927683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 This has been clarified from 6th and is distinctly different than previous editions. This is a huge block of rules, but it is all needed to show how Ld works on a model by model basis now. LEADERSHIP TESTSAt certain times, a model or unit might be called upon to take a Leadership test. This usually represents them drawing upon their courage to face disheartening circumstances.To take a Leadership test, use the following procedure:• Roll 2D6 and compare the result to the model’s Leadership.• If the result is equal to or less than the model’s Leadership value, then the test has been passed.• If the result is greater than the model’s Leadership value, a suitably dire consequence will occur, as detailed in the rule that called for the test.• If a unit has to take a Leadership test and it includes models with different Leadership values, always use the highest Leadership from among them. Now, the only time you take the highest value of a unit is when the unit tests such as when it tests after taking shooting casualties. A model uses it's own Leadership when the model has to test. The last point is the only time it mentions using the highest value of a unit and in that point it specifies that it happens when a UNIT has to test and not just a model. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301339-2-priests-in-a-unit/#findComment-3928168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goonbandito Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Yeah, Fibonacci has it correct (pg13 of the BRB if you're looking for the rule btw). In 6th Edition it was ambiguous as to whether or not a model could use the Unit's leadership when making a leadership test, but 7th Edition made it clear. If a Unit is called on to take a Leadership test (for example a Morale, Pinning or Fear test) then you use the highest leadership of the models in the unit. If a Model has to take a leadership test (such as a Priest activating a War Hymn, or a model attempting to resist the current form of Mindshackle Scarabs) then you have to use that models Ld Characteristic on their profile. Priests only being Ld7 means you'll be failing the War Hymn tests as often as you pass them which isn't exactly awesome. However the Litanies of the Faith (relic that Priests and Cannoness' can buy) or the Beacon of Faith Warlord Trait (which Celestine comes with) can help you out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301339-2-priests-in-a-unit/#findComment-3928248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Assuming that rules only apply after you've read them, which isn't something I ever understood. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301339-2-priests-in-a-unit/#findComment-3928275 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banjulhu Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 As far as I was aware all things in a players army are units in the game, so if a model takes a leadership test then a unit is taking a test and if a unit has multiple available ld scores it uses the highest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301339-2-priests-in-a-unit/#findComment-3928562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonny Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 It feels as if you're reaching here, Banjulhu, but for the sake of assuming you aren't: (page 9 of main rulebook): "A unit usually consists of several models that have banded together, but a single, powerful model is also considered to be a unit in its own right.". So yes, a model may be part of the unit, but he is not 'the unit'. So when a model takes a leadership test, it isn't the 'unit' that takes a leadership test, it is a model within the unit. Or would you like to argue that when a model takes a wound, the unit takes a wound, and upon a failed save, the whole unit dies? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301339-2-priests-in-a-unit/#findComment-3929148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 if a model takes a leadership test then a unit is taking a test And you would be wrong. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301339-2-priests-in-a-unit/#findComment-3930211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 so if a model takes a leadership test then a unit is taking a test That's fine with me. It just means that if I kill a model in your unit, then I killed your unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301339-2-priests-in-a-unit/#findComment-3930400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Danse Macabre Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 So can we get back on track here then and stop the stupid "if this is the case if I wound the unit and not the model the unit dies" rubbish? Its not remotly similar in rules and is not the topic of discussion. Now back to Leadership Tests, sadly as said above it would be againt the models Leadership and not the units but this in fairness is why you would really only see the 1 20 sister blob unit if there was one on the field as then the unit can have Litanies of the Faith which goes a huge way towards helping the unit auto casting rerolls to saves and to wounds. Add a veteran sister Superior to this 2 priest combo with a Simulacrum Imperialis then you should also have reliable rerolls to hit for 2 turns as well which is nothing to be sniffed at. However the 300 point'ish cost of this unit may be a little painful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301339-2-priests-in-a-unit/#findComment-3932874 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 The best use for the double priests I've found is rolling with a Battle Conclave. Take a Litanies and choose to re-roll your saves and wounding rolls and profit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301339-2-priests-in-a-unit/#findComment-3951441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Danse Macabre Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 The best use for the double priests I've found is rolling with a Battle Conclave. Take a Litanies and choose to re-roll your saves and wounding rolls and profit. Can't Argue with that, still 40 Rapid Firing shots with rerolls does help however... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301339-2-priests-in-a-unit/#findComment-3952803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 The best use for the double priests I've found is rolling with a Battle Conclave. Take a Litanies and choose to re-roll your saves and wounding rolls and profit. Can't Argue with that, still 40 Rapid Firing shots with rerolls does help however... Sadly, the hymns do not work for shooting. "War Hymns: A model with this special rule can take a Leadership test at the beginning of each Fight sub-phase" or were you talking about Preferred Enemy rerolls from Acts of Faith? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301339-2-priests-in-a-unit/#findComment-3952815 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Danse Macabre Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Ahhh, bugger. Was hoping they allowed rerolls to wound when shooting as well... Sad times. :( They will get more rerolls at least from the Simulacrum Imperialis. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301339-2-priests-in-a-unit/#findComment-3952900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Assuming that rules only apply after you've read them, which isn't something I ever understood. Sine lex nulla poena...of course, that refers to retroactive application of new legislation. Ignorance of the law (rules) is no defense...not that there's any defense possible in 40k. Accused=guilty! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301339-2-priests-in-a-unit/#findComment-3953480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Yes, War Hymns not working on shooting is why I like them more as a unit to go murder things with knives. Well T6 and below things at least. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301339-2-priests-in-a-unit/#findComment-3953489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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