Where Do The Names For Legion Members Originate From?

[Emperor's Furor]

Did you know haggis was invented by the English.

[Operative]

Hmmm even if the Death Guard were recruited from Britain whilst it make sense for them to use modern/ old English/British names I just can't see much evidence of this, apart from Nathaniel which whilst being used by modern English speaking countries doesn't actually make it English since it is actually a Hebrew name.

 

If anyone wants to counter this statement them I'm open to ideas, but for now I will add Hebrew. Also I think I shall also add a place of origin/ recruitment section as that seems to go hand in hand with what is discussed on this thread.

[depthcharge12]

Did you know haggis was invented by the English.

That would explain the bad food :P

 

That and kidney pie

[tdemayo]

Has anyone yet mentioned the excellent Onomastikon web site? Great for naming models or characters:

 

tekeli.li/onomastikon/

[Conn Eremon]

That's not a bad site, but personally I like my own favorite better: Behind the Name's Random Renamer tool. It's not perfect, but being given six random names of a variety of backgrounds will, after a few clicks, provide me with some great roots to build a more unique name off of. Preferably, I'll choose two or more different categories, click random a few times, and write down those names I liked. Then I'll find ways they can fit together or spelled differently. It's very quick and easy, so I'm only spending like five minutes max on names for a whole Chapter. But I like taking historical names myself, and so will sometimes delve deep into Wikipedia for some names. For instance, I spent like an hour looking at Etruscan names for Illium characters/historical figures, finding repetitive roots and easily linked names to create some, in my opinion, very decent Emperor's Children names: Achsantre Aivas, Achmenle Pakstruia, Memnuthste and finally Lord Commander Achlectur Priumne, which combined the Etruscan names for Achilles, Hector and Priam.

[depthcharge12]

That's not a bad site, but personally I like my own favorite better: Behind the Name's Random Renamer tool. It's not perfect, but being given six random names of a variety of backgrounds will, after a few clicks, provide me with some great roots to build a more unique name off of. Preferably, I'll choose two or more different categories, click random a few times, and write down those names I liked. Then I'll find ways they can fit together or spelled differently. It's very quick and easy, so I'm only spending like five minutes max on names for a whole Chapter. But I like taking historical names myself, and so will sometimes delve deep into Wikipedia for some names. For instance, I spent like an hour looking at Etruscan names for Illium characters/historical figures, finding repetitive roots and easily linked names to create some, in my opinion, very decent Emperor's Children names: Achsantre Aivas, Achmenle Pakstruia, Memnuthste and finally Lord Commander Achlectur Priumne, which combined the Etruscan names for Achilles, Hector and Priam.

Lol I always look at your user name and think of the name Colm (Malcolm) or some other Scottish name that women seem to swoon over.

 

I'll take a look at that name generator though, sounds like it could be useful.

 

I did just spitball a bunch of "knight names" I've heard or twisted about a bit for the 1st legion:

 

Calenhad

Loghain

Alistair

Garahel

Letho

Kaedwen

[Conn Eremon]

The name in fact comes from a couple different sources, though the true origin is something else entirely.

 

But yeah, that's a good start. Loghain Calenhad sounds pretty good. I like Kaedwen too.

[Olis]

Hmmm even if the Death Guard were recruited from Britain whilst it make sense for them to use modern/ old English/British names I just can't see much evidence of this, apart from Nathaniel which whilst being used by modern English speaking countries doesn't actually make it English since it is actually a Hebrew name.

If anyone wants to counter this statement them I'm open to ideas, but for now I will add Hebrew. Also I think I shall also add a place of origin/ recruitment section as that seems to go hand in hand with what is discussed on this thread.

I believe the other circumstantial evidence points to the British Isles* (or what became of them after the oceans boiled off), rather than simply just naming conventions. For example, it borders the Northern Atlan, which is likely a corruption of the name for the ocean next to the British Isles - the Atlantic. Also, the term 'Ironsides' is likely, as mentioned before, a tip of the hat to Cromwell or at least the 'New Model Army' that fought under him (given that the author of this referenced material is himself British).

While "castram-cities" might seem to lead to a dead end (involving the Portuguese word for castration ), an endeavouring soul over on BoLS (a user named Augustusng) suggested it to be a derivation of the Latin word 'castrum' (a fortified military camp) and theorised that, since roman-era settlements in Britain grew from those, this could be another nod.

* Please note that the 40k wiki (warhammer40k.wikia) directly states that Albia is actually Albania while there is no real evidence to support this claim (read: There could be a case to be made but much of the supporting fluff is even more circumstantial than the 'British Isles' view). This is a prime example of why wikis are to be taken with quite a large handful of salt and lots of cross-referencing.

Edit - also note that there has been another term for the British Isles for a while in 40k - Albyon. This might have been retconned to Albia, if the theory is correct.

[Operative]

Hmmm even if the Death Guard were recruited from Britain whilst it make sense for them to use modern/ old English/British names I just can't see much evidence of this, apart from Nathaniel which whilst being used by modern English speaking countries doesn't actually make it English since it is actually a Hebrew name.

If anyone wants to counter this statement them I'm open to ideas, but for now I will add Hebrew. Also I think I shall also add a place of origin/ recruitment section as that seems to go hand in hand with what is discussed on this thread.

I believe the other circumstantial evidence points to the British Isles* (or what became of them after the oceans boiled off), rather than simply just naming conventions. For example, it borders the Northern Atlan, which is likely a corruption of the name for the ocean next to the British Isles - the Atlantic. Also, the term 'Ironsides' is likely, as mentioned before, a tip of the hat to Cromwell or at least the 'New Model Army' that fought under him (given that the author of this referenced material is himself British).

While "castram-cities" might seem to lead to a dead end (involving the Portuguese word for castration ), an endeavouring soul over on BoLS (a user named Augustusng) suggested it to be a derivation of the Latin word 'castrum' (a fortified military camp) and theorised that, since roman-era settlements in Britain grew from those, this could be another nod.

* Please note that the 40k wiki (warhammer40k.wikia) directly states that Albia is actually Albania while there is no real evidence to support this claim (read: There could be a case to be made but much of the supporting fluff is even more circumstantial than the 'British Isles' view). This is a prime example of why wikis are to be taken with quite a large handful of salt and lots of cross-referencing.

Edit - also note that there has been another term for the British Isles for a while in 40k - Albyon. This might have been retconned to Albia, if the theory is correct.

Yes you make a good case for why Alba would be composed of modern day Britain, I was merely stating that there is little evidence of the Death Guard characters using British names but rather using other culture's naming conventions.

Thanks for the post though, reminds me to add in the place of origin section.

[Olis]

I might have got a touch carried away in providing a good counterpoint, brother. Yes, you make a good point about them not using overtly 'British' names. ^_^

[LongGone]

See, I would use the size, population and general history to argue that any reference to Albion/Albia/Alba, etc., was referring to the modern day U.K. instead of Albania.

 

Honestly, I'd expect Albania and its small neighbors to be rolled into a general Macedonia in 30K.

 

Also, I think trying to tie names (of anything, really) in 30k to anything but a very, very generalized location/culture is a futile/unsupported attempt at getting more specific than the fluff can handle.

[tdemayo]

Of course, using any historical names or origins is a kind of slight of hand, designed to suggest the simultaneously futuristic/archaic nature of the 30k universe.

 

28k years from now, current languages (and names) would in all likelihood be unrecognizeably altered. Written human history and everything in it is only 5k years old.

 

So it's really about figuring out which real world names suggest though their sound and associations, a real world culture that sort resembles the culture of the Legion itself.

 

I tend to view Terra/the Imperium as having a linguistic base that resembles Latin, with some Romance (esp Old Frnch)and a little Greek and Hebrew thrown in. (In other words, they sound kinda like archaic/medieval European names.) Legions that are close to the Imperial norm, or characters that are Terran in origin have names from this calque. When the writers want to suggest that the legion has a different culture, they choose more exotic names. (This is where we get Norse, Egyptian, etc.)

 

But it's not a hard and fast thing, or systematically worked-out, as the purpose is to hint at the great depth and antiquity of the 30k universe, not to precisely mimic any real world culture or achieve internal consistency.

[Father Mehman]

Fun Fact: We now have a beer recipe from 10+ thousand years ago. I believe it's Korean (at least, that's where they found it, IIRC). Isn't science fun?!

[tdemayo]

The oldest beer recipes I've heard of are about 5k years old from mesopotamia. We have beer residue in pottery that's older, tho. That's afaik.

 

But that's veering off topic.

 

More on topic: can anyone identify the origins of the Word Bearer/Colchis names? Mesopotamian? Mostly invented?

[Operative]

Fun Fact: We now have a beer recipe from 10+ thousand years ago. I believe it's Korean (at least, that's where they found it, IIRC). Isn't science fun?!

Can we try to keep the comments on topic as this is a thread that is supposed to provide relevant information for those wanting to gather information on the subject of Legionnaire's names not beer.

 

Again everyone thanks for all the comments so far, this thread is really progressing and I love the discussion. New suggestions for naming conventions are great (as ever) although I'm looking for us as a community to try and pool some knowledge on the subject of the Terran regions of origin for each legion (modern day or 30k era).

 

Thanks Guys and keep it up!

[Father Mehman]

Having been suitably chastised by two members, I carry on my Magnum Opus.

 

I agree with you, tdemayo, on the Mesopotamian naming convention for the Word Bearers. I think what has been largely done is taking something Meso-sounding, mixing it up a bit, and calling it a day. It's referencing Mankind's general area of birth here on Earth and Chaos' formal birth to Mankind all these years later through the Word Bearers / Colchisians, if you'd like to take it that far.

[Operative]

As this thread had such a great contribution by the community it would be a shame to let the last "place of recruitment" section go unfinished.

 

Now everyone knows the homeworlds of all the legions so I'm not looking for those but if anyone knows any named planets, areas or locations (ie Night Lords and prisons) that legions recruited from that would be such a help.

 

Certain regions of the legion's homeworlds should also be suitable too as they should be useful for others who are trying to create their own characters.

 

Thanks Everyone

[FunkyMonkey]

Word Bearers generally seem to use Semitic-sounding (including Akkadian, Assyrian, Aramaic) names, imo.  Colchis was historically a small kingdom in the pre-Christian Caucuses region near Armenia, Georgia, and Northeastern Turkey.  I imagine that ForgeWorld kind of lumps Pagan Caucuses along with Mesopotamian, Assyrian, Babylonian, Akkadian, and maybe even Median/Persian influences.