New ideas for a Dark Angels Legion rules

[Atia]

 

 

• 2 unique units - I'd like to see a Deathwing Inner Circle Knight unit armed with relic blades and a completely new unit (i.e. not Ravenwing)

yep deathwing knights would be awesome ... for the ravenwing, you don't need special rules for them, as you can field ravenwing knights with the normal legion outrider squad rules (but we may get rules for the corvus-hammers).

[depthcharge12]

For some reason I hate the aesthetic of the Corvus hammers, they just look silly to me.

 

I would however like to be able to use the Halberd of Caliban. +2 S and AP 2? Yes please.

[daveNYC]

Having "Walk the Circle" use straight model count means that five Terminators charging six regular PA guys will get the bonus for being outnumbered, which seems kind of goofy since in that situation they wouldn't be fighting defensively.  I'm not sure how to tweak that though.  

[Slips]

"Any Power/Artificer Armor equipped model(s) with the Legion Astartes: Dark Angels Special Rule in combat gains +1 WS and +1LD so long as they are outnumbered."

 

Might need some further precision as to how the rule interacts with PA squads joined by a TDA character but I think this is a good, straightforward baseline for the wording, no?

[Atia]

For some reason I hate the aesthetic of the Corvus hammers, they just look silly to me.

 

I would however like to be able to use the Halberd of Caliban. +2 S and AP 2? Yes please.

yeah, they should've maked them longer, more like a real bec de corbin :P

[Saphrael]

I'd still advocate limiting the support squad to chargers only though - calivers are significantly better for the points with heavy being the only draw back.

 

Agree. I probably should have been clearer that I meant chargers not cavaliers - that's really the only way to match the fluff idea.

 

 

I had an idea that DA could be forced to deploy D3 additional unidentified Fake objectives in any objective based game in which they use allies. These would be worth no points when held, and represent the poor communication between the DA and there allies. Of course, that might penalise the enemy as much as the DA - unless you allow the enemy to score from them, and that might be a bit too harsh! Is there a workable idea in there somewhere?

 

Like where your head is at, but you've introduced a brand new mechanic that's going to require a fair amount of pagespace to explain and could be quite cumbersome. I think it's more expediant to just play with the ally matrix, but as I said earlier, I don't have a better idea than the battle brothers = allies of convenience, which doesn't seem right. It's too penalising when you do use allies, and has no effect at all when you don't (which means we don't have a downside at all a fair amount of the time).

 

 

For the blade... perhaps

Calibanite Blade: S of user/AP2/two handed.

 

Exchange with normal power weapon for free.

 

Not bad, but I probably wouldn't take that to be honest. It doesn't really hold up to the other unique wargear other legions get, least of all the Nostraman Chainglaive. That said, there's only so many variables we can play with (S, AP etc.) and I think a two-handed, AP2 sword makes the most sense at this point.

 

 

Having "Walk the Circle" use straight model count means that five Terminators charging six regular PA guys will get the bonus for being outnumbered, which seems kind of goofy since in that situation they wouldn't be fighting defensively. I'm not sure how to tweak that though.

 

I liked the suggestion to have bulky models count as two models, the way they do for transports. It won't do jump-pack equipped models any favours, but to suit the 'Calibanite knights fighting in circles' motif, it probably shouldn't benefit jump-pack models. In your example you'd need eleven PA guys to give the bonus to five TA guys, which sounds right to me.

[Kor'Vesh]

Saphrael - I agree with pretty much all of you points there. My objective is certainly very clunky!

 

The sword though I'm less sure on. I think it depends on availability, as flat AP2 at initiative in combat is rare in 30k. If it is character only I'd probably say it's fair enough, and not excessively appealing. If it were available to any one who could take a powersword though? I'd always pick it over the other power weapons, as even with an attack less you are at a big advantage over your standard AA and axe serg. I think in that case you have to pay points for it.

[apologist]

A way to encourage the use of swords would be to restrict the benefit to them:

 

Legiones Astartes (Dark Angels)

• Units with this special rule may always attempt to regroup regardless of casualties
• Pride of the First: Units with this special rule benefit from +1LD when outnumbered in combat. Models with this special rule must accept challenges.
• Meeting of Blades: Models with this special rule gain +1WS if explicitly armed with a sword (including power sword etc) or combat blade. The bonus is not included if any other type of weapon (e.g. axe, mace, spear etc) is wielded.
• Prototype Legion: Legion Tactical Squads taken as Compulsory choices may swap their boltgun for:
  • Volkite charger .... +Xpts
  • Volkite caliver ...... +Ypts

 

Under that approach, there's no explicit downside beyond the 'must accept challenges' stipulation. However, by restricting the bonus to swords, Dark Angels players will have proportionally fewer specialist weapons. If they do choose to take fists, axes etc., they lose the advantage, so it's largely internally balanced.

[Saphrael]

I had the same thought about giving the +1WS to models armed with swords, it would make any 'Calibanite Broadsword' worthwhile at S: as user, AP2, two-handed as well (maybe).

 

However I'm not sure it should be given to models armed with a combat blade, because then you're essentially giving +1WS to the whole army. Maybe state that it has to be chainswords, but not combat blades, so then tactical squads are encouraged to buy the upgrade?

 

Also, why include Calivers for the support squad as troops?

[depthcharge12]

A way to encourage the use of swords would be to restrict the benefit to them:

 

Legiones Astartes (Dark Angels)

• Units with this special rule may always attempt to regroup regardless of casualties
• Pride of the First: Units with this special rule benefit from +1LD when outnumbered in combat. Models with this special rule must accept challenges.
• Meeting of Blades: Models with this special rule gain +1WS if explicitly armed with a sword (including power sword etc) or combat blade. The bonus is not included if any other type of weapon (e.g. axe, mace, spear etc) is wielded.
• Prototype Legion: Legion Tactical Squads taken as Compulsory choices may swap their boltgun for:
• Volkite charger .... +Xpts
• Volkite caliver ...... +Ypts

Under that approach, there's no explicit downside beyond the 'must accept challenges' stipulation. However, by restricting the bonus to swords, Dark Angels players will have proportionally fewer specialist weapons. If they do choose to take fists, axes etc., they lose the advantage, so it's largely internally balanced.

I think that's dang near close to what their rules should be :)

 

It makes sense to replace a tactical squads weapons as it will make it more expensive than a support squad in exchange for counting as a compulsory choice.

[Atia]

A way to encourage the use of swords would be to restrict the benefit to them:

Legiones Astartes (Dark Angels)

• Units with this special rule may always attempt to regroup regardless of casualties
• Pride of the First: Units with this special rule benefit from +1LD when outnumbered in combat. Models with this special rule must accept challenges.
• Meeting of Blades: Models with this special rule gain +1WS if explicitly armed with a sword (including power sword etc) or combat blade. The bonus is not included if any other type of weapon (e.g. axe, mace, spear etc) is wielded.
• Prototype Legion: Legion Tactical Squads taken as Compulsory choices may swap their boltgun for:
• Volkite charger .... +Xpts
• Volkite caliver ...... +Ypts

Under that approach, there's no explicit downside beyond the 'must accept challenges' stipulation. However, by restricting the bonus to swords, Dark Angels players will have proportionally fewer specialist weapons. If they do choose to take fists, axes etc., they lose the advantage, so it's largely internally balanced.

I think that's dang near close to what their rules should be

It makes sense to replace a tactical squads weapons as it will make it more expensive than a support squad in exchange for counting as a compulsory choice.

yep. Just add:

- Deathwing Knights as special unit (terminator armour, leonite pattern stormshields, power weapons; may swap terminator armour for cataphractii, 1 in 5 may swap his stormshield for a plasma-cannon or volkite caliver)

- Any model on bike may get a Corvus Hammer for X points (rules as in C:DA, -, +1, -, CC and armourbane)

- Any infantry model may swap a heavy flamer for X points for a plasma-cannon (so you can get terminators and tactical veterans with plasmacannons)

grrrr depthcharge, now i want to do some dark angels >_<

[apologist]

While I like the Deathwing and Ravenwing, I think it'd be nice to see some more iconic 30k units rather than those, which are very much associated with Dark Angels in 40k. If these formations are included, I'd like to see them changed in line with the fact they're not hunting the fallen.

 

That said, given most legions have got one or two Terminator units and one or two infantry units (generally including Breachers, for some odd reason), I think a Terminator squad like Atia suggests, with shields and swords (of some kind) would be very cool.

 

I'd also like to see the other 'Wings' hinted at in Unremembered Empire represented. Perhaps the Dreadwing as a specialist Destroyer cadre? Ironwing as a Rite of War?  Stormwing as... a Breachers unit? :P

[Atia]

While I like the Deathwing and Ravenwing, I think it'd be nice to see some more iconic 30k units rather than those, which are very much associated with Dark Angels in 40k. If these formations are included, I'd like to see them changed in line with the fact they're not hunting the fallen.

That said, given most legions have got one or two Terminator units and one or two infantry units (generally including Breachers, for some odd reason), I think a Terminator squad like Atia suggests, with shields and swords (of some kind) would be very cool.

I'd also like to see the other 'Wings' hinted at in Unremembered Empire represented. Perhaps the Dreadwing as a specialist Destroyer cadre? Ironwing as a Rite of War? Stormwing as... a Breachers unit?

yep! no kinds of "instruments of torture" and other crazy 40k stuff, but instead adding more to the "Knights of Caliban" theme

Dreadwing as proto-Destroyers would be awesome (maybe with volkite serpentas instead of bolt pistols :D?), and the Stormwing were Breachers/Assault Marines if i remember "Unremembered Empire" right ....

[depthcharge12]

 

 

A way to encourage the use of swords would be to restrict the benefit to them:Legiones Astartes (Dark Angels)

 

• Units with this special rule may always attempt to regroup regardless of casualties
• Pride of the First: Units with this special rule benefit from +1LD when outnumbered in combat. Models with this special rule must accept challenges.
• Meeting of Blades: Models with this special rule gain +1WS if explicitly armed with a sword (including power sword etc) or combat blade. The bonus is not included if any other type of weapon (e.g. axe, mace, spear etc) is wielded.
• Prototype Legion: Legion Tactical Squads taken as Compulsory choices may swap their boltgun for:
• Volkite charger .... +Xpts
• Volkite caliver ...... +Ypts

Under that approach, there's no explicit downside beyond the 'must accept challenges' stipulation. However, by restricting the bonus to swords, Dark Angels players will have proportionally fewer specialist weapons. If they do choose to take fists, axes etc., they lose the advantage, so it's largely internally balanced.

I think that's dang near close to what their rules should be :)

It makes sense to replace a tactical squads weapons as it will make it more expensive than a support squad in exchange for counting as a compulsory choice.

yep. Just add:

 

- Deathwing Knights as special unit (terminator armour, leonite pattern stormshields, power weapons; may swap terminator armour for cataphractii, 1 in 5 may swap his stormshield for a plasma-cannon or volkite caliver)

- Any model on bike may get a Corvus Hammer for X points (rules as in C:DA, -, +1, -, CC and armourbane)

- Any infantry model may swap a heavy flamer for X points for a plasma-cannon (so you can get terminators and tactical veterans with plasmacannons)

 

 

grrrr depthcharge, now i want to do some dark angels >_<

You know you want to...

 

http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/treacyjohn2/9a4ef8eb8b46ff33bc8d3d162ca43a73_zpsda41f380.jpg

 

I think the Dreadwing are the future Space Phantoms so firepower is a must. But I'd totally love them as crazy destroyers.

 

The Deathwing, I believe, aren't all in terminator armor like their future counterparts. I think the IF Templar brethren squad is a good place to start with ideas.