hand removal

[Brother_Ead]

So Iron Hands remove their left hand upon becoming Space Marines. Did this ritual continue unbroken among their successor chapters? If there is no fluff providing the answer, which successor chapter or chapters do you think would have most likely forgotten or left this ritual behind?

[Machine God]

None of them!

[Father Mehman]

Sons of Medusa would still be doing it. They're pretty tech-crazy. Probably the Brazen Claws dropped the practice. Second Founding chapter still doing First Chapter rites seems a bit far-fetched to me.

[BassWave]

Except that second founding means that they were originally part of the legion, not started from the ground up by the command of the High Lords of Terra. The Iron Hands chapter is technically second founding too.

[Lucien Eilam]

Yeah, the 2nd Founding Chapters had been as much the Iron Hands Legion as the Iron Hands Chapter were. It would be strange if the Brazen Claws and Red Talons didn't continue most or all of the same rites.

 

The Sons of Medusa only split from the Iron Hands in M35, so they probably do too.

 

Which I think only leaves the Iron Lords and the Steel Confessors of the canon Chapters, who are of unknown but presumably later founding. They might not use exactly the same rites, but they all suffer from the obsessive compulsion to improve themselves, so bionics and other augmentation are pretty much certain.

[jokaero weaponsmith]

Is it stated any where that the orginal tenth legion space marines cultivated on earth all submitted to the ritual of having their hand cut off once Ferrus be came head of the legion?

I do think that most if not all of the early chapters sired from the tenth would follow the practise as with any chapters that knew their lineage.

But if the founding tenth didn't submit to the ritual it would be possible to have a very limited number chapters that didn't follow it .

I would say that any chapters that were directly sired from the Iron Hands chapter that didn't follow the ritual or at the very least augment their bodies in some way would be closely watched by the inquisition for been outside the norm .

[Brother_Ead]

There are a couple of Brazen Claws short stories. Anybody read them?

[Brother_Ead]

 

 

I would say that any chapters that were directly sired from the Iron Hands chapter that didn't follow the ritual or at the very least augment their bodies in some way would be closely watched by the inquisition for been outside the norm . 

 

I'd actually think the Iron Hands themselves are closely watched by the Inquisition for this reason. The whole hatred of the flesh thing is an aberration among Space Marine chapters in the wider Imperium. If all successor chapters of Iron Hands did have the same compulsion, it would lend evidence to the assumption that it's a problem with the geneseed itself and not just a chapter cult thing. If the geneseed isn't flawed and I followed Autek Mor (who didn't really like Ferrus all that much anyway from what I can tell) I might be all like, "Yeah, you can cut your hands off if you like but..."

[tylerw]

So Iron Hands remove their left hand upon becoming Space Marines. Did this ritual continue unbroken among their successor chapters? If there is no fluff providing the answer, which successor chapter or chapters do you think would have most likely forgotten or left this ritual behind?

Well, there is the Plastihands chapter, who use plasticard to mould a useless prosthetic. Also, the Tupperware Toes, but those guys are weird.

[CyderPirate]

As I understand it, the removal of flesh in general is a gene-seed 'problem' akin to the Blood Angels liking their steak rare and the Space Wolves' tendency to howl at the moon.

 

The removal of the left hand specifically, though, I think is a ritual thing that could differ in successor chapters.

[Candleshoes]

In the Brazen Claws shorts, (mixed with their little material) we can a glimpse of where they stand in the current timeline.

 

In the shorts, "Castagatii" are mentioned, numbering 50, in a Chapter of only 400 remaining at the end of their crusade. Castagatii have been confirmed to be marines who have given in to their bionics, and now exist at an almost 100% mechanical to flesh ration. They have no geneseed, they have no flesh, they have no brain. They are, in essence, sentience captured within their armour, much like rubricae, but with control and consciousness. Though in their ranks, the Castigatii are a stark reminder for the Claws of what lies at the end of the road if you lose yourself. To this end, the loss of their homeworld and the failure of their crusade ultimately push them away from self inflicted fleshloss, but by all means, they still replace their flesh when battle claims it.

 

Certainly the Claws as any second founding, would retain in that first generation many of the rituals of their parent, but afterwards, the Claws are shown as fighting with the same mentality and style as the original Legion, as though led by the Gorgon himself, during a time when bionics were given as much as a mark of honour for their wounds. They have a much more aggressive, offensive, brutal, and straightforward demeanor when fighting, a "Brazen" mentality that makes up their moniker, that the Iron Hands themselves have tempered within and mastered. The Claws have not, and that temper and dare I say it, that humanity, is something they have more of than most Iron Hand Successors.

 

Do they remove ritualistically remove hands? My opinion is that they do not.

 

They have an incredibly strong and brutal culture, that has had enough time to move away from the Iron Hands. They are also one of the only Iron Hands successors who can effectively work alongside human regiments, as seen in their crusade around the eye of Terra, as well as their many interventions that lead up to the 13th Black Crusade. Accounts show that Astra Militarum units, including Creed himself, still see them defending humanity and that they are not lost (or as merciless as the archenemy itself in treating them, for if you destroy the villagers and the village in the process of defending them, what is the point?)

 

They are as uncompromising and cold as their parent, but they see mortals as more than just fodder. In the shorts, we see their moto "You have called. We have answered." They actively seek the weak to defend, and most of the time, that means men and women. Like their father, they care about strength of self, and we also see the Iron Hands themselves refuse to help them on their crusade of revenge. I expect there is a lot of unforgiveness and distancing that would occur from the parent if that happened, and the refusal came while you stood in the ashes of your planet.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Candleshoes

[CyderPirate]

Nice work Candleshoes, great summary - very informative :D

[Brother_Ead]

Agreed. Very helpful! I need to read those brazen claw short stories then.

[Machine God]

@Candleshoes - The Brazen Claws short stories are they eBook or dead tree?

[BassWave]

@Candleshoes - The Brazen Claws short stories are they eBook or dead tree?

Human skin from all these extra left hands we keep finding in the trash.

[Brother_Ead]

ebook

[Machine God]

Hello All.

 

Just a confused stalwart signing in with a bit of threadomancy.

 

The old cogitators are playing up.

 

Q: The Left hand is removed as stated upon induction to the Chapter.

 

Is this given to an Initiate upon becoming a Scout or a Scout upon becoming a Space Marine?

 

Your help brothers...

[Claws and Effect]

I'm guessing it is part of the ritual of going from Scout to Battle Brother.