IF Templar Brethren vs. Terminator Squad with Storm Shields?

[AfroCampbell]

The title really says it, I am making a list and cannot decide between building a deathstar type unit of Templar Brethren or toughness 5 Termies with Storm shields (using the legon RoW) to go with Sigismund!

I want to love the Templars more, however i feel they will get squished against any Termie squad they fight as they only have power swords.

 

 

Thoughts?

[depthcharge12]

I think you should stick with a Templar brethren squad with combat shields because they are essentially regular terminators that can sweeping advance but don't have much variety as to weapons choice (and other termies have 4++).

 

Siggy plus a champion with a Solarite gauntlet can cover all your AP2 needs, but don't charge headlong into terminator units. You should however take out any other type of squad out there - even things like command squads.

 

I'd definitely recommend them as your main assault squad from a land raider and possibly toss in an apothecary (idk if you can with the rules but I assume so, if not then a Primus medicae) for extra survivability. If you're worried about other 2+ armor saves because you only have power swords in the squad, then take a plasma squad of sorts and use this Death Star for anything and everything not in terminator armor.

[Slips]

Imo, the best Templar Death Star would be : 8/10 Templar, Combat Shields, Sol Glove; Primus Medicae, AA, Sol Glove, Refractor; Sigismund. in a suitable Assault Transport.

Since the Sol Glove doesn't have Specialist Weapon, you get the +1 Attack for having a Pistol and with 2 of them + Sigismunds Ap2 Sword, you should have enough Ap 1/2 on the charge to make a decent dent into TEQ units. You could also give the Primus Medicae a Boarding Shield for the Defensive Grenade buff (theres a topic about it here) if you wanted.

The Squad will also have : 2+/5++ in CC due to Combat Shields and FNP. Sure, you have Power Swords galore, but with Furious Charge and +1 Initiative on the Charge, you should be able to off a few before they get to swing back. Not to mention the poor sod being forced to Challenge Sigismund is all but assured to die; though you can still challenge block with the Templar Champion or Primus Medicae (highly unadvised) if needed. Not to mention you can Sweeping Advance if you just decimate them in combat.

Remember, Terminators can't take Vexillas to re-roll morale tests You, however, can!

You can also take a Nuncio-Vox for no-scatter Deep Strikes or precision artillery.

Edit: for extra punch, add in a Chaplain with a Sol Glove (which I think they can take too!) for Zealot or a Legion Champion with appropriate gear to tank challenges for Sigismund. Maybe a Libby for some buffs.

Edit 2: That said, a 5-10 man Terminator Squad with Storm Shields (2+/3++) and a Primus Medicae with Storm Shield and Sol Glove (yes you can do that, afaik) will be considerably tougher and have a wider array of weapons its just that their only mode of transportation at that point would be a Spartan or a TP Transponder which come with their own up and downsides. They also have the added benefit of massed Ap 2 on the relative cheap (Axes).

Only downside is hitting last in combat and no sweeping.

[blackoption]

Slip:  Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Sigismund have a rule where he always has to accept or issue a challenge, even above what legion or consul rules.  I didn't think it was possible for Sigismund to not accept a challenge.  (though this is not necessarily a bad thing, considering 7th ed challenges can bleed over wounds to the rest of the squad)

[Slips]

Slip:  Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Sigismund have a rule where he always has to accept or issue a challenge, even above what legion or consul rules.  I didn't think it was possible for Sigismund to not accept a challenge.  (though this is not necessarily a bad thing, considering 7th ed challenges can bleed over wounds to the rest of the squad)

Quite possible; I haven't read his entry in a while so my point about challenge tanking could be moot. It would actually make sense if he did due to being First Captain. So, in that regard I stand corrected.

 

Still, having a bunch of extra characters with cool gear to pummel any squad they come up against while their leader gets cut down unceremoniously by Sigismund is just as good. And if they ever come up against Angron....

[Hesh Kadesh]

Indeed he does.

 

Blood and Honour forces IF characters to issue (but no need to accept) challenges, allowing you to pick and choose, but Sigimund requires you to both issue AND accept, AND this overwrites Blood and Honour. 

[Dono1979]

Once you have played with Sigi against an opponent one or two times, dont be surprised if you see them simply declining challanges, except of course for those who arent allowed to. Declining a challange and putting sigi against the rank and file actually takes away a huge buff for him and it is often less devastating for him to be attacking out of a challange then in it.

[blackoption]

While less devastating,  refusing a challenge against sigismund comes with its own penalties.  Correct me if I am wrong, but if you refuse, doesn't the other player get to choose which character hides from the challenge (and thus cannot participate in the fight at all)?

[Hesh Kadesh]

Indeed. But they're not dead. Yet.

 

That's why you have challenge blockers, although now that wounds carry over onto the squad, it's not as effective as it used to be. If you get the right unit; i,e Rampagers, I'm thinking of mainly, you can lock him down. He's still dangerous though - 4+ S6 AP2 attacks is to be feared. As ever, though Salamanders or maybe even Imperial Fists with their Relic can survive - Eternal Warrior and a 3++ Save are hard to hit through even despite the rerolls. With 4 Eternal Warrior wounds though and a 4++, he's likely to tank anything not Primarch level (at which point he becomes chewed offal, especially when up against a Murderer like Curze, Angron, Horus, or Fulgrim (Fulgrim loves his 8 attacks and a 2+/3++ he does).

[Dono1979]

 

While less devastating,  refusing a challenge against sigismund comes with its own penalties.  Correct me if I am wrong, but if you refuse, doesn't the other player get to choose which character hides from the challenge (and thus cannot participate in the fight at all)?

 

Yes but, as said above, he stays alive and Sigi loses the buffs he gets from being in a Challange; the Instant Death and forcing Inulnerables to be rerolled.

[blackoption]

True, but usually S6 AP2 is more than enough to gut a squad.  Force the IC in the squad to not fight, and there is little cause for concern (though 2 wound terminators could be a problem)

[Lysere]

True, but usually S6 AP2 is more than enough to gut a squad.  Force the IC in the squad to not fight, and there is little cause for concern (though 2 wound terminators could be a problem)

 

That's what the several Solarite Gauntlets in the squad are for.

[Memento Of Prospero]

I don't see the problem with Sigismund issuing challenges, I answered by applying lascannons to the face.