Hesh Kadesh Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 What units do you not even consider looking at/forget exist when designing lists? For me; Recon Squads, Techmarines, Normal Dreads, land speeders of all varieties and whirlwinds (except scorpius) I don't consider to be capable units and always forget to work them into a list, or find something better at doing it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302526-never-used-units/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Yeah you've got it. I would loooove to use a regular dread with a flame storm cannon, but that would require a drop pod, and I don't play drop lists. I don't use seekers either as they don't fit fluff and their special bolters kinda suck. With combi plas they're great, but again, that's a drop list and is way too many points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302526-never-used-units/#findComment-3930565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Recon squads fit into my Alpha Legion list for fluff purposes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302526-never-used-units/#findComment-3930569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mehman Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Death Guard fluff limits what I take but, theoretically, I would take any and all units if the battle called for it- and it's fluffy enough. "Normal" Dreadnoughts are great in my eyes. I'm planning on getting some very soon, one with a flamestorm cannon and another that'll have a pair of close combat weapon arms. Are they useful? To me they are- with or without a drop pod. Funnily enough, Recon Squads fit into my fluff. I haven't put any in a list but we'll see what happens in the future. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302526-never-used-units/#findComment-3930604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
coloroutofspace Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 What units do you not even consider looking at/forget exist when designing lists? For me; Recon Squads, Techmarines, Normal Dreads, land speeders of all varieties and whirlwinds (except scorpius) I don't consider to be capable units and always forget to work them into a list, or find something better at doing it. Disagree with the above with the exception of regular Whirlwinds - but in this case it's not that I forget about Whirlwinds, on the contrary, I remember not to consider those :) But seriously, it's hard to recall things you forgot :D Ahh, yes... Kharybdis! Also, Thunderhawk Transporters and Seekers :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302526-never-used-units/#findComment-3930732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 For me, Recons, regular Whirlwinds, Fire Raptors (I don't like the kit), Outriders, Legion Champs, heavy bolter Rapiers, Assault Squads, Tarantulas, Primaris Lightning, Achilles, Vindicator, Malcador.Damn, I'm picky. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302526-never-used-units/#findComment-3930853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Strictly Legion: Recon, Outrider, Regular WW, Non-Javelin Speeders, Siege Breaker, Legion Champion, Heavy Support Squads, HB Rapiers, Vindicators, techmarines, Bos Dreads, Tarantulas. A case could be made for Recon Marines but the rest in this list I have a really hard time finding a use for them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302526-never-used-units/#findComment-3930863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caustic63 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I find myself avoiding Heavy Bolters in general, Centurions that aren't Consuls, Techmarines, Land Raiders of any type apart from Achilles (since the good versions are 40K only), and expensive superheavy tanks. What's wrong with the Fire Raptor kit? Does it not fit together right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302526-never-used-units/#findComment-3930865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Nah, it's just the look of the nose for me. S'only an aesthetic thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302526-never-used-units/#findComment-3930874 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstalker Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I never really forget them, but these are all pretty much never considered: Recon Marines - Price too high, no durability increase over tacticals Seekers - Similar problem to Recons, high per-body price and not any tougher than tacticals Dreadnoughts - Overpriced, overshadowed by Contemptors Assault Marines - Can't compete with Tac Marine value Techmarines - Don't really fill any role, compete for valuable elites slot Quad HB Rapiers - Heavy Bolters are bad Death Storm - Competes for heavy support slot, expensive throw-away unit once you've put on the krak and Drop Pod Assault upgrades. Kharybdis - Expensive. For a few points more, you could have a Spartan. Breachers - Can't compete with Tac Marine value Tarantulas - Always seems like you can get these weapons cheaper elsewhere, and with better BS and no firing mode rules. Javelins/Landspeeders - Sicarans exist. Achilles - Why take it when you could have an Achilles Alpha? Vindicator - No squadron. Would rather take Medusas. Standard WW - bad. maybe if you want to take 3 of them with hyperios air defence launchers, could justify it, but there are better anti-air options. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302526-never-used-units/#findComment-3930876 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Is there something I'm missing with the Achilles Alpha, minus the different weaponry? I can't see a difference between regular and enhanced Rites and otherwise it looks the same. Explain it to me, because I MUST be being stupid at this point. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302526-never-used-units/#findComment-3930904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 The Achilles Alpha gets volkite culverins as sponson weapons vs multi-meltas edit: whoosh, didn't see you said minus the weaponry. Uhm, it doesn't come with armoured ceramite? Not sure why it's really a separate entry Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302526-never-used-units/#findComment-3930918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstalker Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Well, depends on what you believe. If you're like me, the Achilles Alpha is the only Quad Mortar with Shatter Shells because it's the only one in the entire book that explicitly comes with Frag and Shatter Shells, and the entry in the back of the book is just an editing messed up - they didn't just give all the other Quad Mortars (which in previous books had Frag only) Shatter Shells for no price increase. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302526-never-used-units/#findComment-3930924 Share on other sites More sharing options...
amazarak Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 That's funny, I love regular dreads, BS 5, same weapons as a contemptor but cheaper... I like them. I also like rapier heavy bolters, 18 twin linked str 5 bolter shots for 120 points... ummm yeah. Anyway... For me though; seekers, techmarines, any heavy support that isn't using volkites, recon marines, assault marines, and tarantulas. p.s. Lightnings are one of the only things that can kill a Spartan dead on the turn it arrives. And javelins are really really good. Just saying. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302526-never-used-units/#findComment-3930953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstalker Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 p.s. Lightnings are one of the only things that can kill a Spartan dead on the turn it arrives. And javelins are really really good. Just saying. Definitely shouldn't forget or overlook Lightnings. They're an incredibly versatile aircraft in the second-least contested FOC slot. 4 Kraken missiles on the turn it comes in into any tank is going to be a really bad day for the tank. I don't buy Javelins being "really really good" though. Predator costs the same and has more armor and HP, and for a few more points will outgun the Javelin consistently with 2 LC and a heavy 4 autocannon. On top of which, the Predator isn't immediately food for any Sicaran that it comes across - thin-skinned speeders are. Just with how good and how popular Sicarans are, they lower the value of landspeeders and Javelins because of how hard they counter them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302526-never-used-units/#findComment-3930960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal Son of Magnus Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Justaerin: I think about using them, then I remember that a unit of 10 is 700+ points and that I can ally in the vastly superior Firedrakes or Red Butchers, an HQ AND a cheap troop choice for less than the cost of the Justaerin. I legitimately think their points cost was a typo that Forge World was to proud to admit to making. Legion Champion: for 30 pts more I get a praetor, who has 1 more attack, 1 more wound, higher Initiative, higher Leadership, more options, isn't required to challenge, and can give my army some really good buffs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302526-never-used-units/#findComment-3930963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
zedmeister Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I love my Quad Heavy Bolter Rapier unit and my Hyperios Tarantulas. As for unused, well for me: Standard Land Speeder (come on FW, put out a Heresy era model) Attack bike (same reason as above) Vindicator (Why didn't they squadron these. Besides, I'm waiting for the Sabre variant) Techmarines (No models, again) Castraferum dreadnoughts Whirlwinds Stormblade (Dull) Malcador (Dull) Drop pods of all flavours Land Raider Phobos (Dull) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302526-never-used-units/#findComment-3932882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I plan to use a small squad of recon marines to accompany Exodus. They are scoring and will most often get 3+ cover save and a range of 36", hanging out outside the "combat area". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302526-never-used-units/#findComment-3932893 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I plan to use a small squad of recon marines to accompany Exodus. They are scoring and will most often get 3+ cover save and a range of 36", hanging out outside the "combat area". Exactly what I am planning to do. Imagine if they could take our special ammo too though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302526-never-used-units/#findComment-3932920 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I plan to use a small squad of recon marines to accompany Exodus. They are scoring and will most often get 3+ cover save and a range of 36", hanging out outside the "combat area". Exactly what I am planning to do. Imagine if they could take our special ammo too though. Well that wouldn't mesh well with Exodus range or weapon stats. Banestrike ammo seems to be all about that 9" rapid fire range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302526-never-used-units/#findComment-3932947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I plan to use a small squad of recon marines to accompany Exodus. They are scoring and will most often get 3+ cover save and a range of 36", hanging out outside the "combat area". Exactly what I am planning to do. Imagine if they could take our special ammo too though. Well that wouldn't mesh well with Exodus range or weapon stats. Banestrike ammo seems to be all about that 9" rapid fire range. Yeah but I'm sure they could come up with a long range varient. The Alpha Legion R&D department need to get working! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302526-never-used-units/#findComment-3932975 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I plan to use a small squad of recon marines to accompany Exodus. They are scoring and will most often get 3+ cover save and a range of 36", hanging out outside the "combat area". Exactly what I am planning to do. Imagine if they could take our special ammo too though. Well that wouldn't mesh well with Exodus range or weapon stats. Banestrike ammo seems to be all about that 9" rapid fire range. Yeah but I'm sure they could come up with a long range varient. The Alpha Legion R&D department need to get working! Well, sniper rifles do the same on sixes, only better... ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302526-never-used-units/#findComment-3933023 Share on other sites More sharing options...
coloroutofspace Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I plan to use a small squad of recon marines to accompany Exodus. They are scoring and will most often get 3+ cover save and a range of 36", hanging out outside the "combat area". Exactly what I am planning to do. Imagine if they could take our special ammo too though. Well that wouldn't mesh well with Exodus range or weapon stats. Banestrike ammo seems to be all about that 9" rapid fire range. Yeah but I'm sure they could come up with a long range varient. The Alpha Legion R&D department need to get working! Well, sniper rifles do the same on sixes, only better... Now, that proves that Recon squads are not entirely omitted when deciding on a list :) Also, guys, come on, are regular Speeders with Heresy-era weaponry that boring? I'm not saying it's the best unit in the game, but fluff-wise, these are (along with Outriders) like the perfect vanguard for the main force. I can very well imagine a few speeders scouting ahead of a massive Iron Warriors force, or chem-munitions filled Death Guard Speeders supporting infantry... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302526-never-used-units/#findComment-3933535 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Thing with Speeders and Regular bikes is that Sicarians > Them. Ignoring their jink saves outright greatly devalues them due to the prevalence of the tank. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302526-never-used-units/#findComment-3933538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I never really forget them, but these are all pretty much never considered: Recon Marines - Price too high, no durability increase over tacticals Seekers - Similar problem to Recons, high per-body price and not any tougher than tacticals Dreadnoughts - Overpriced, overshadowed by Contemptors Assault Marines - Can't compete with Tac Marine value Techmarines - Don't really fill any role, compete for valuable elites slot Quad HB Rapiers - Heavy Bolters are bad Death Storm - Competes for heavy support slot, expensive throw-away unit once you've put on the krak and Drop Pod Assault upgrades. Kharybdis - Expensive. For a few points more, you could have a Spartan. Breachers - Can't compete with Tac Marine value Tarantulas - Always seems like you can get these weapons cheaper elsewhere, and with better BS and no firing mode rules. Javelins/Landspeeders - Sicarans exist. Achilles - Why take it when you could have an Achilles Alpha? Vindicator - No squadron. Would rather take Medusas. Standard WW - bad. maybe if you want to take 3 of them with hyperios air defence launchers, could justify it, but there are better anti-air options. I dunno seeker squads with combi plasmas can own terminators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302526-never-used-units/#findComment-3933554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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