AfroCampbell Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Contemptor vs Deredeo vs Sicaran? What works best as AA and anti-ground ? What is the most cost effective? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302656-is-the-deredeo-too-expensive/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstalker Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Is the Deredeo too expensive? As far as I see... yes and no. Yes, in that walkers tend to be overpriced in general. Some by a little, some by a lot. We tend to see a lot of Contemptor-Mortis dreads running around, but I think that is largely because it has been our only half-decent anti-air option. IMO, though, they're actually a bit overpriced. But, when you compare a Twin TLLC C-M vs a Deredeo, they're the same price for 90% identical stats. In anything that doesn't involve trying to 1. glance a Flare Shielded Spartan from the front or 2. Kill TEQ the Deredeo wins. So in that sense, no, it's not overpriced because it beats out an existing model in a similar role. Side note, though, is that there is an intangible cost to go with the slot that they're in. It can vary list by list, but in general heavy supports are harder to come by and more valuable because you can get more powerful units in the slot, so anything that takes up a heavy support slot really ought to be worth it. If you've got the HS slot to spare, I think the Deredeo now beats out the Contemptor-Mortis - and while it will make it more expensive, you should also always put the little missile launcher on there. Independent targeting, long range, no LOS required, it's a marine murder machine and it will just tally up value over the course of a game through the number of marines that it removes. If you're especially lucky, you'll get a unit pinned or manage to kill a Predator or something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302656-is-the-deredeo-too-expensive/#findComment-3932884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AekoldHelbrass Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I agree with Kitwulfen. Derdeo is more effective against vehicles as Heavy Support Squad with 4 missile launchers, PLUS you have a full squadron of Basilisks against marines. With autocannons alone, it can on average destroy any other Dreadnought. So the only thing that is bad about him - he will probably be the biggest fire magnet in your army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302656-is-the-deredeo-too-expensive/#findComment-3932901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I think the Deredeo is definitely worth it's points for what it does, it might seem pricey, but that's because it's a beast. Agreeing along with Kitwulfen, I've done some test rolls. So far, nearly 100% of the time, I've been able to glance AV13 to death with one round of shooting from it. The missiles firing at a different unit is just icing on the cake. Twin linked BS5 will hit nearly every shot, but sunder is so fantastic for what it does. It's kinda like you have rerolls to hit and wound vehicles. The thing is no slouch against flyers and deep striking units either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302656-is-the-deredeo-too-expensive/#findComment-3933068 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 how about against skimmers and jinking it seems the Sicaran has the edge there with it's ignores jink. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302656-is-the-deredeo-too-expensive/#findComment-3933086 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyDreadnought Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Just to point out, we don't have the 30k version of the Deredo, only the 40k Relic Deredo which has the express permission to be used in 30k. The Heresy era one may recieve a points discount, stat change or additional weapon options that change it's role from an anti-air/skimmer platform. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302656-is-the-deredeo-too-expensive/#findComment-3933153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 how about against skimmers and jinking it seems the Sicaran has the edge there with it's ignores jink. This can be as much as a downside if it fails to kill it in one turn, as the opponent then doesn't need to consider the trade off between jinking and snap firing next turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302656-is-the-deredeo-too-expensive/#findComment-3933207 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 how about against skimmers and jinking it seems the Sicaran has the edge there with it's ignores jink. That's true, but then not many people use javelins. I know Athrawes runs 2 but they blow over in a stiff breeze when anything points at them. Just to point out, we don't have the 30k version of the Deredo, only the 40k Relic Deredo which has the express permission to be used in 30k. The Heresy era one may recieve a points discount, stat change or additional weapon options that change it's role from an anti-air/skimmer platform. While true, I doubt there will be many changes to the basic rules; for the weapons load out - yes - but for the rules - no. The Sicaran can deal with skimmers but it isn't the best at performing AA, where the majority of "skimmers" will be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302656-is-the-deredeo-too-expensive/#findComment-3933211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
defl0 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 It's basically the old Grey Knight psi-dread at 135 pts, plus AV13, interceptor, sky fire, an invul save, and a heavy bolter and extra armor a search light and smoke launchers and BS 5 and Sunder.... That's a lot of extra kit and really good rules for 50 points. And you could argue the GK dread was under costed. So yeah. Expensive, but by no mean overpriced. I would say it is similarly under priced and specialized like the sicarian or the scorpius. Its shooting is really efficient and tailored for what it does. It's a great addition to a dread bash list! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302656-is-the-deredeo-too-expensive/#findComment-3933311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I'm 100% with kitwulfen. If you're already looking at a mortis and comparing it against a Dodo, then there is a niche it can fill. That said, the mortis itself is a bit expensive. Unless you're looking for a slight edge against fliers, there are more economic options. I'm sticking to my contemptor. To me it really is a dodo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302656-is-the-deredeo-too-expensive/#findComment-3933599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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