defl0 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 1850 pts. ROW - Decapitating Strike Alvarex Maun w. camo Chaplain w. Jump Pack, Power Axe, Melta Bomb, Refractor Field, Void Shield 6 X Mor Deythan w. 4 combi flamers, 2 Missile Launchers w. suspensor webs Rhino 6 X Mor Deythan w. 4 combi flamers, 2 Missile Meltas Rhino w. combi melta 5 X Mor Deythan w. 5 combi flamers Rhino w. combi melta 5 X Dark Fury 10 X Tactical Marines 10 X Tactical Marines 3 X Rapiers Laser Destroyers, 6 crew Fire Raptor, spot light Tactics: - Maun infiltrates in a tac squad - Chaplain Joins Dary Fury Squad - Fire Raptor in Reserve. - Mor Deythan infiltrate & scout. Priority: 1. Anti Air / interceptors 2. Infantry - Rapier Laser Destroyers Infiltrate for side armor: Priority: 1. Spartans 2. Anti Air / Interceptors / vehicles - Turn 2 ish - Deepstrike Dark Fury squad - Fire Raptor The idea is to try to win first turn, take the risk and alpha strike hard. Hopefully kill off enough of the anti air to give the raptor air superiority. The other hope is to try to crack open as many transports as possible so you can rending flame the crap out of them. Fire Raptor cleans up units and cracks other light transports / vehicles still around. Dark Fury squad rescues Mor Deythan squads or tries to clear scoring units. List Thoughts: - For the Missile launcher Mor Deythan, I'm not sure I'm sold on teh missile launchers. The idea is to deal with things like recon squads or fast elements away fromt he bulk of the enemy army and still have range to impact the fight. That said swapping them for MGs might be better especially if I find another 10 points for another Melta gun on that rhino. - Lists with lots of Spartans worry me. Not sure how I crack them open. Really all I have are the Rapier Laser Destroyers and a bunch of S8 and couple Melta bombs. Worst case scenerio in a double spartan list I could go rending on the mor Deythan meltas and missile launchers... - For things like death guard, I think the 13 rending flamers and the durk fury squad will be enough. Although I'm not quite sure how I deal with beat stick characters or primarchs. Anyway, thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302688-raven-guard-1850/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I can't find any rules for a 2015 event outside Zone Mort. I can only find an article saying that it will be 1,500 points. You wouldn't happen to have a link would you? Last year didn't allow Primarchs and there's still the "No LoW below 2k" rule in normal 30k. I'm not convinced on the MLs either. 24" doesn't give you much range. I'd be more concerned about Dracosans and Conveyors than Spartans. Dedicated transports with high AV, lots of HP and can have, or already have, flare shields. I would take Grav rapiers over the laser ones for Haywire alone. Perhaps switch out that last Mor Deythan for a second grav battery. Plus with the Advent of Solar Aux theres a lot more T3 out there with 4+ saves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302688-raven-guard-1850/#findComment-3934143 Share on other sites More sharing options...
defl0 Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 I think these guys run the event at adepticon. No rules yet, but they gave some hints. like no relics in the smaller games and that the missions are going to be a special maelstrom list. I built this with that idea in mind. So I feel ok with 5 scoring units at 1850. http://heresy30k.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/2288-adepticon-2015-horus-heresy/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302688-raven-guard-1850/#findComment-3934151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Ahh a form of Maelstrom. Yeah Mor Deythan are a great choice for that. I'd be even more Concerned for Dracosans though. Scoring, AV13, 5HP, optional flare shield. They're choice for objectives. I would definitely consider at least swapping out the LD rapier for grav. Side armor is only 12 so the Fire Raptor can do work if you find some points for ACs. Still not sold on the MLs. Without access to Flakk they're wasted on AA. Though... they can put some hurt on enemy rhinos from the safety of their own rhino and then next turn move up to flame the contents. Gives them an effective range of 30". That's not a bad option either, especially after infiltrating and scouting into good position. Wheres Maun going? If he's with a Mor Deythan squad the Raptor and Furies can come down with precision and you save points on Cameleoline. Take off a Melta bomb somewhere and you can get ACs for the raptor. Also "2 Missile Meltas" what? ha Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302688-raven-guard-1850/#findComment-3934194 Share on other sites More sharing options...
defl0 Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 I'm not convinced on the MLs either. 24" doesn't give you much range. I'd be more concerned about Dracosans and Conveyors than Spartans. Dedicated transports with high AV, lots of HP and can have, or already have, flare shields. I would take Grav rapiers over the laser ones for Haywire alone. Perhaps switch out that last Mor Deythan for a second grav battery. Plus with the Advent of Solar Aux theres a lot more T3 out there with 4+ saves. I'm not sure about the missile launcher either. 4 combi flamers and 2 melta guns in a rhino with a combi melta have really been working for me. Especially at 1850 where you see less vehicles with cermite armor or peopel running rhinos. Still trying it out though. Not sure on the rapiers either. Haywire seems great if you take like 6 of them. If you only take a couple you end up being committed to glancing things to death, which isn't really a strong approach for an alpha strike list. I've actually been considering dropping the 3rd Mor deythan squad for a xeres pattern lightning as well. Similar idea though... It feels like the list is a just a tad light on tank hunting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302688-raven-guard-1850/#findComment-3934217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 "Xerxes" drives me nuts ha. It's a total misnomer. Semantics aside... Laser destoyers aren't great alpha strike potential either. Kraken missiles or haywire are the only way to reliably take down Spartans outside D weapons. Plus those grav rapiers can take out a rhino a turn. That's still great alpha potential and doesn't need a 6 to glance if it's a LR with a flare shield. Put Tank Hunters and Strafing Run on the lightning and after it pops a Spartan, Knight or Dracosan it still has a BS5 TL Lascannon with Tank Hunters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302688-raven-guard-1850/#findComment-3934261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
defl0 Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 Ahh a form of Maelstrom. Yeah Mor Deythan are a great choice for that. I'd be even more Concerned for Dracosans though. Scoring, AV13, 5HP, optional flare shield. They're choice for objectives. I would definitely consider at least swapping out the LD rapier for grav. Side armor is only 12 so the Fire Raptor can do work if you find some points for ACs. Still not sold on the MLs. Without access to Flakk they're wasted on AA. Though... they can put some hurt on enemy rhinos from the safety of their own rhino and then next turn move up to flame the contents. Gives them an effective range of 30". That's not a bad option either, especially after infiltrating and scouting into good position. Wheres Maun going? If he's with a Mor Deythan squad the Raptor and Furies can come down with precision and you save points on Cameleoline. Take off a Melta bomb somewhere and you can get ACs for the raptor. Also "2 Missile Meltas" what? ha Yeah but AV 13 12 11. No problem. I got meltas in the side all day long. And good point, i do have autocannons on the raptor. It's so standard in my builds i forget it's an option... ;) That said maun was most likely going in a tac squad. And yeah... multi meltas. BTW, I've been having tons of success with the 4 combi flamers and 2 multi meltas plus the melta rhino. It's so versitle and gives them some longevity if they survive after blowing their rending turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302688-raven-guard-1850/#findComment-3934307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
defl0 Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 Have you tried the lightning out yet? I've been trying to get my hands on the older aquila version. although I realized the nephilim jetfighter is actually about a perfect alternative. Makes me want to do an all flier list sooo bad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302688-raven-guard-1850/#findComment-3934310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Mor Deythan don't have the option to take MM. Even if they did it's Heavy 1. The Nehplilim is a perfect alternative. Can really deck it out to look RG-esque. I have yet to try them out but look great on paper. At least until the Deredeo becomes mainstream. Also Dracosans get access to ceremite. Still my biggest concern. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302688-raven-guard-1850/#findComment-3934323 Share on other sites More sharing options...
defl0 Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 yeah sorry melta gun. your suggesting does fit It's less scoring. Less maneuverable. More able to handle high AV. Lol this is why death guard are so good! I think I'd have a lot of trouble with infantry spam with this list. Maun Chaplain 2 X 5 mor deythan with combi flamers in rhinos 2 X 3 grav platforms 5 dark fury 2 X 10 tacs Raptor, autocannons Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302688-raven-guard-1850/#findComment-3934507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I think this upcoming event will set a lot of precedent as far as the general meta of 30k is involved. Solar Auxilia is in a good position to bring mechanized infantry back in style. Not just with Dracosans but Malcadors as heavy support too. That said, and like what I said before, no one knows what future event might hold. I would definitely try out some games with variations of the list and check out all the forums you can for others prepping for this event and use you own judgement. The second list can definitely work against Solar infantry blobs, Thrall spam, Knights, mechanized lists of all kinds. I can see your worries with Tac blobs though. Rending flamers, the Raptors nose cannon and Dark Furies can make a mess of things if you gang up on them. I like both lists for Maelstrom but again; playtesting will tell you which list, or variation of, will work the way you want it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302688-raven-guard-1850/#findComment-3934546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
defl0 Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 Yeah, the other thing about ad mech and us is the thallax... The djinn sight gives a 24" push back for infiltrators. Less of a deal for my list with the 12" scout on the mor deythan, but against other infiltrating units it's brutal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302688-raven-guard-1850/#findComment-3936079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
defl0 Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 BTW - Adepticon Rules are out. Its all maelstrom, good for RG. 2 diagonals and a hammer anvil deployment is solid for RG. Plus without allies there is less Djiin Sight. http://www.cvent.com/events/adepticon-2015/custom-19-ec700157f5894ca891500186aec58ca9.aspx Anyway, for my list, I lose the void shield option, so I think the 5 man dark fury unit with chaplain and dark fury become a little unusable. Gives me 325 to play with. Instead, what do you guys think I should run? Was thinking maybe going seeker squad in rhino, 2 X mor deythan in rhinos and 2 X 3 haywire platforms. The rest of the list would be the same. Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302688-raven-guard-1850/#findComment-3947239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 More scoring and firepower where you want it is always a good thing. Plus their ammo types will help too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302688-raven-guard-1850/#findComment-3947311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
defl0 Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 So I've been screwing around with 4 lists. List 1 is troop hvy and has some fearless hth, list 2 has dark furies, List 3 has a lot of melta guns, list 4 has a mix of melta and some plasma seekers. Personally, I kinda am leaning toward list 1 or 4. I've found that list 1 does well doing FOTL turn one and then charging turn 2. With a chaplain's re roll to hit, crack grenades can do all sorts of damage to light vehicles with a disordered charge, or 20 fearless guys does a great job of tying up a couple units. List 4 is just murder turn one alpha strike. The wild card option is to drop the fire raptor in any of these lists and take a 6 man support squad with 6 meltas in a rhino. Or you can take Nex and flesh out the seekers. Anyway, so far it's been working really well. They all have an astounding amount of objective secured and with the right draw can pick up an enormous amount of Victory points in maelstrom turn one. Note: All of these lists are running ROW: decapitating strike. List 1: Raven Guard: 1850 1 Chaplain Artificer armor, refractor field, power axe, melta bomb, cameleoline 1 Strike Captain Alvarex, cameleoline 19 Legion Tactical Squad w. extra CCWs 1 Legion Tactical Sergeant Power Axe, Melta Bombs, Artificer Armour 9 Legion Tactical Squad 1 Legion Tactical Sergeant 3 Legion Rapier Weapons Battery, Graviton Cannon 3 Legion Rapier Weapons Battery, Graviton Cannon 5 Mor Deythan Strike Squad, Combi-Flamer x5 1 Mor Deythan Shade, Combi-Flamer 1 Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, Combi-Meltagun 5 Mor Deythan Strike Squad, Combi-Flamer x5 1 Mor Deythan Shade Combi-Flamer 1 Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier 1 Legion Fire Raptor Gunship, Reaper Autocannon Battyer x2 List 2: 1 Strike Captain Alvarex, cameleoline 9 Legion Tactical Squad 1 Legion Tactical Sergeant 9 Legion Tactical Squad 1 Legion Tactical Sergeant 3 Legion Rapier Weapons Battery, Graviton Cannon 3 Legion Rapier Weapons Battery, Graviton Cannon 5 Mor Deythan Strike Squad, Combi-Flamer, Meltagun 1 Mor Deythan Shade, Meltagun 1 Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, Combi-Meltagun 5 Mor Deythan Strike Squad, Combi-Flamer, Meltagun 1 Mor Deythan Shade, Meltagun 1 Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, Combi-Meltagun 6 Dark Fury Assault Squad 1 Chooser of the Slain, Melta Bombs 5 1 Legion Fire Raptor Gunship, Reaper Autocannon Battery List 3: 1 Strike Captain Alvarex, cameleoline 9 Legion Tactical Squad 1 Legion Tactical Sergeant 9 Legion Tactical Squad 1 Legion Tactical Sergeant 6 Legion Tactical Support Squad, 6 melta guns 1 Legion Tactical Sergeant 1 Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, Combi-Meltagun 3 Legion Rapier Weapons Battery, Graviton Cannon 3 Legion Rapier Weapons Battery, Graviton Cannon 5 Mor Deythan Strike Squad, Combi-Flamer, Meltagun 1 Mor Deythan Shade, meltagun 1 Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, Combi-Meltagun 5 Mor Deythan Strike Squad, Combi-Flamer, Meltagun 1 Mor Deythan Shade, Meltagun 1 Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, Combi-Meltagun 1 Legion Fire Raptor Gunship, Reaper Autocannon Battery List 4: 1 Strike Captain Alvarex, cameleoline 9 Legion Tactical Squad 1 Legion Tactical Sergeant 9 Legion Tactical Squad 1 Legion Tactical Sergeant 3 Legion Rapier Weapons Battery, Graviton Cannon 3 Legion Rapier Weapons Battery, Graviton Cannon 5 Mor Deythan Strike Squad, Combi-Flamer, Meltagun 1 Mor Deythan Shade, meltagun 1 Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, Combi-Meltagun 5 Mor Deythan Strike Squad, Combi-Flamer, Meltagun 1 Mor Deythan Shade, Meltagun 1 Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, Combi-Meltagun 1 Legion Fire Raptor Gunship, Reaper Autocannon Battery 4 Legion Seeker Squad, 4 x Combi-Plasmagun 1 Legion Strike Leader 1 Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302688-raven-guard-1850/#findComment-3955833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I'm liking list 4 as well. It feels the most like a decapitation strike. How are the gravitons working out? Been doing some more thinking on Rapiers in general. Been looking around the net for Adepticon lists and there are fewer Spartans than I remember from last year. Plus the Knights aren't allowed this year. I've seen a list or two that has a ton of Dracosans. The amount of things that have access to flare shields and ceramite is concerning but there isn't enough data out there to get a good handle on it. I don't know if preparing for the worst with gravitons that don't have to rely as heavily on positioning or just spamming S8 shots with quadmortars and trying to get side shots by deploying them on different sides of the board is better. Know what I mean? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302688-raven-guard-1850/#findComment-3955922 Share on other sites More sharing options...
defl0 Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 You know. I'm torn actually. The laser destroyers are really nasty with the re roll pen and ap1. The ability to pen kill things can really swing the whole game turn 1. I find they often out right kill or damage a vehicle enough that i can move on to something else with the second battery. They can also do things like shoot planes out of the sky. In general I feel like I roll 2 glances and a pen against things like landraiders. So it comes down to 50% if I destroy it or not with 5 shots. The graviton cannons on the other hand are a consistent grind unit. I pretty much always have to send another unit to finish of my target or shoot the second battery at the same target. The other big difference is the collateral damage. In list one, I've found all sorts of close combat tricks to force a lot of dangerous terrain checks during hth. The other big thing is immobilization. Usually an immobilized transport is all i need. One big difference with the gravs is deployment. Your opponents tend to spread out giving you the ability to collapse a flank without reprisal occasionally. I also end up with more side shots with no cover saves. But really the big difference is that you have to hit 3 times to kill a tank usually, which is not really the case with the destroyers. With ap4, you basically have to glance things to death. I haven't really tried the quad mortars yet. They seem really strong as well. My only issue with them is that they kill units that are usually vulnerable to melta. Melta is easy for me to deploy efficiently, and more importantly get outside of my elite slots. There point efficiency is undeniable but they don't really give me what i'm looking for in a RG list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302688-raven-guard-1850/#findComment-3956315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I can't find consistent rules for the destroyers. They're AP value and range changes on depending on where they are listed. I know they got changed to AP2 in IA. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302688-raven-guard-1850/#findComment-3956654 Share on other sites More sharing options...
defl0 Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Oh really? That's considerably worse. It's only one pip but its one pip across the entire table. Honestly, I'm sure gw wound hate it but an online rules compendium would be so helpful for 30k. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302688-raven-guard-1850/#findComment-3956870 Share on other sites More sharing options...
defl0 Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Btw. I think its so radically different in different places because it's on different models. They probably should have had laser destroyers and laser mega destroyers. It seems like they had two weapons in mind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302688-raven-guard-1850/#findComment-3956872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
defl0 Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Another interesting thing about grav that came up last night. When you kill a vehicle transport, models disembark. Disembarking into dangerous terrain causes an immediate dangerous terrain check. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302688-raven-guard-1850/#findComment-3957287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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