VIIth Legion, DLXIVth Co. (3,000 points)

[Sully ad Bellum]

I would welcome any comments on my 3,000-point Imperial Fists Legion list.  The list uses the Fists' Stone Gauntlet Rite of War, and the concept is a siege/assault company of Fists, the 564th, commanded by Centurion Demetrius Kolben, accompanied into battle by Centurion Alexis Polux of the 405th Company.  Because Polux will be the centurion on the field at the start of the battle, Polux will be in overall command of the battle.  Also attached to the 564th - although, notably, not in command of anything at all - is a veteran of the Unification Wars, Centurion Wilhelm Hollidae, a Moritat Consul.

 

HQ

Centurion Alexis Polux (Warlord; Rite of War - Stone Gauntlet) (attached to 1st Squad, 405th Co.)

 

Centurion Demetrius Kolben -   Terminator Armor, Paired Lightning Claws (attached to Squad Arminus)

 

Moritat Wilhelm Hollidae - Artificer Armor, Paired Plasma Pistols*, Charnabal Sabre, Melta Bombs

 

ELITES

Squad Arminus, 1st Squad, 564th Co. - Two terminators with power swords and combi-plasma guns; two terminators with chainfists and storm shields; Sergeant Arminus with a thunder hammer and storm shield (begins battle in Caestus Assault Ram Murum Attigit)

 

Apothecarion Detachment, 564th Co. - Three apothecaries, each equipped with artificer armor and armed with a power sword (attached to the Breacher Siege Squads)

 

Battery C, 564th Co. - Two Laser-Destroyer-equipped Rapiers

 

TROOPS

1st Squad, 405th Co. - Twenty Breacher Siege Marines; two flamers, two meltas; Sergeant in artificer armor with a powerfist and melta bombs

 

4th Squad, 564th Co. -  Ten Breacher Siege Marines; one flamer, one melta, vexilla; Sergeant in artificer armor with a powerfist and melta bombs

 

5th Squad, 564th Co. -  Ten Breacher Siege Marines; one flamer, one melta, vexilla; Sergeant in artificer armor with a powerfist and melta bombs

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

Caestus Assault Ram Murum Attigit - Upgraded with Auxiliary Drives

 

9th Squad, 564th Co. -  Ten Heavy Support Marines in Hardened Armor equipped with Missile Launchers and Flak Missiles

 

10th Squad, 564th Co. -  Ten Heavy Support Marines in Hardened Armor equipped with Missile Launchers and Flak Missiles

 

* My Moritat is currently armed with two plasma pistols, but as a result of the recent FAQ adding the "Chain Fire Overheat!" rule, I am considering equipping him differently.

 

That's it - 3,000 points, almost all of it T5, and every squad intended to make the most of the Legiones Astartes (Imperial Fists).  I welcome comments and, most of all, suggestions.  Thanks!

 

[Slips]

Well, first, what type of armies do you think you'll be facing off against the most with this list? If you're up against a lot of 30k Armies, well, those melta guns might not be all that great of an option due to Armored Ceramite.

Second, whats the consul type of your Terminator HQ? Also, Cataphractii or Tartaros? Depending on which suit, it may or may not be a better idea to give him a Storm Shield for that 3++ If he's already modeled that way, thats fine then. No need to rip his arms off and change them, really.

Moritat, yeah Serpentas are now the best option. Although, if you feel lucky, you could try some Shenanigans with Bolt Pistols since it'll boost him to BS6. That means that on a 1 to hit, you can re-roll it and continue shooting if you land on a 6. Potentially INFINITE SHOTS. Realistically though, Serpentas are better.

For the Terminators, I'd swap out the Power Swords for Axes, personally. Again if its modeled on and not magnetized, no biggie. All my terminators were put together with the "rule of cool" in mind so I have a few that I look at and kinda regret the way I geared them out but then again, they just look better that way.

The reason for Axes > swords is because its a free upgrade and lets you deal with other Terminators or 2+ save models. Sure, its unwieldy but if they aren't ignoring your 2+ save but your are theirs, well, you're in a better spot even if you're hitting last.

Apothecaries are cool. Though if you could, try to give them augury scanners to counter Deep Strikes and Infiltrators.

Now, the reason for my opening line on local meta and melta weapons is if you're up against mostly or exclusively 30k lists, the only thing your melta guns will be effective against are Contemptors (since they can't take armored ceramite, unlike the box dread and Deredeo) Rhinos or backfield artillery tanks. Iirc, Predators can take Armored Ceramite? With how short their effective range is, you might be better served with more Flamers. Also, flamers are guaranteed D3 hits per flamer in overwatch and you don't really want to be charging with breachers since you'd be losing out on the use of their Defensive Grenades and they have -1" to charge range.

If you're up against 40k lists, however, spam that melta and make em cry. Especially their inferior Land Raiders without Armored Ceramite!

Also, the Sarge has a Power Fist so you should be able to deal decent damage to most of the things you'll be running across. Melta Bombs are redundant if you take a Pfist since you can only use One or the Other to pop vehicles. So either drop the bombs (dont - they have armorbane so are actually better than Melta Weapons since they aren't affected by Armored Ceramite) or swap the Pfist for another Ap2 Weapon; so Thunderhammer (good all around if there will be multi-wound MC's or Characters with EW) or Power Axes.

Glad you could fit a Caestus in. Besides it being very expensive points wise, its main benefit is being the only Av13 Flyer. Though I'd try to maximize the use of its "ignores bulky" rule and slap more terminators in. The Missiles being One-Shot is a letdown though but, the Magna Melta is great for doubling out FNP on Marines under its Blast Template.

Sure, the Melta guns on your breachers do just that to marines but 1-2 shots of "ignores FNP" isn't really worth it, imo, when you could be drowning them in more wounds with flamer templates or Guaranteed D3 hits.

LasDestroyers are good option, true. Ordnance causing an extra dice for Pen rolls is nice at S9 Ap1 but, a Quad Mortar, I find, is more versatile. For one, each mortar is shooting out 4 S8 Sunder Shots (re-roll failed Armor Pen) so it has more chances of causing damage to Vehicles like the Spartan and you also have the option of 4 (per mortar) S6 3" shots which also cause -1 LD to pinning which is decent against Blobs.

Can't complain about the Missile Squads except that maybe a Contemptor-Mortis with Kheres or a Deredeos may be better options for Anti-Air (due to Skyfire/Interceptor) and Anti-Tank. 1) The Mortis with Kheres has 12 Shots Rending so the damage potential is much higher 2) the Deredeo has 4 TL S8 Sunder Shots and 3 Missile shots that can be fired at other targets if needed and ignore LoS and/or Cover for a guaranteed 3 Marines Dead per turn at 60"

For Example, 2 Deredeos run you 440 points but, they more or less guarantee 6 Dead MEQ's per turn and can dish out 8 S8 Sunder Shots with Skyfire/Interceptor at any Flyers or without those rules at any other armor. They also are Av 13 and have Invulnerable saves which make them ever so slightly tougher than 10 3+ marines (per dread).

However, if you have 20 Marines with ML's all modeled and stuff, might as well roll with em

Only Glaring problem I see is that the list has no real transportation options. The Majority of your list will be Footslogging it and while they can all re-roll failed Armor Saves from Blast/Templates, if they have, for example, a Plasma Deredeo lobbing Ap2 5" blasts at you, that Void-Hardened armor won't be doing you much good.

Thats all I could think of...

[AfroCampbell]

Yea as slips has identified the transport/mobility is gonna be a potential issue (one i am also having in a very similar army...) my only solution I can suggest is to look at if you can drop some major options and include a LR?..... dedicated transport for breachers....?

[Sully ad Bellum]

Slipstreams, thanks for your feedback! I really appreciate it. I'll see if I can explain where I am coming from in response to your comments, in the order that you presented them.

As a preliminary matter, let me admit that I have played exactly no games of 30k at the 3,000 points level, and exactly 1 game – in Zone Mortalis – at the 1,000 points level (and that was actually my Breacher Siege list against a 40k Dark Angels army). However, I have seen several 30k battle reports, and my friend and I are building 30k armies together, and this list was constructed to fight against those lists that I have seen. That is why your feedback, and the feedback of other members of this forum who've actually played in the 30k paradigm, is so greatly appreciated! Now, let’s to it.

Well, first, what type of armies do you think you'll be facing off against the most with this list? If you're up against a lot of 30k Armies, well, those melta guns might not be all that great of an option due to Armored Ceramite.

Actually, the melta guns were added to the list in response to a Zone Mortalis problem. The only surefire ways to get through all of those AV13 blast doors are chainfists, melta guns, and melta bombs. That is, in part, why every breacher squad has at least one melta gun and the sergeants have melta bombs in addition to their St8 power fists. Also, I am concerned about the breacher squads being charged by AV13 dreadnoughts, and melta overwatch might help with that, and melta bombs will help with that. I’ll address my thoughts on Armored Ceramite when we come to the issue, below.

Second, whats the consul type of your Terminator HQ? Also, Cataphractii or Tartaros? Depending on which suit, it may or may not be a better idea to give him a Storm Shield for that 3++ If he's already modeled that way, thats fine then. No need to rip his arms off and change them, really.

Actually, he’s not a consul. Besides Champion consuls, the Fists can only take one consul option, and currently mine’s a Moritat. It seems to me that there is substantial overlap between what you get with the Champion consul and what Fists characters already get based on the Legiones Astartes (Imperial Fists) special rule, so much so that I do not believe it worthwhile to pay the premium in points cost for a Champion. My centurion’s in neither Cataphractii nor Tartaros; he’s wearing Indomitus-pattern armor, which was also available at the time, and which for all intents and purposes (so far) functions substantially identically to the Tartaros and Saturnine patters of terminator armor. See Horus Heresy: Betrayal (HH:1), p. 237; Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (LA:CAL), p. 91. To make him (and the other terminators, also in Indomitus-pattern) look less 40k, I equipped them all with cataphractii weapons – which I figured all had their own power supplies, given the construction of the cataphractii armor – and cut the power cables off their arms; sort of like an early iteration of the Indomitus-pattern. He’s already modeled with the twin lightning claws, and in addition to looking sick as all get-out, I like that his high initiative could be used to great effect against an adversary’s squad of 3+ marines while the sergeant with the storm shield accepts (or issues) the challenge against the adversary’s 2+ character armed with the AP2 weapon. I like that flexibility.

Moritat, yeah Serpentas are now the best option. Although, if you feel lucky, you could try some Shenanigans with Bolt Pistols since it'll boost him to BS6. That means that on a 1 to hit, you can re-roll it and continue shooting if you land on a 6. Potentially INFINITE SHOTS. Realistically though, Serpentas are better.

You make a strong argument for the serpentas (serpentae?). After reading the Chain Fire Overheat! rule again (here: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/H/Horus_Heresy_7th_Ed_FAQ_Dec_2014.pdf), “one or more” plasma pistols seems like an excellent way to substantially deprive yourself of the benefit of the Chain Fire special rule; you’re likelier to be lethal with a pair of bolt pistols. So, I will be swapping both plasma pistols for either [the plural form of serpenta] or bolt pistols. The pair of bolt pistols is appealing, in that it really flexes the Fists’ bolter prowess, but I think it’s unlikely to be able to take out a 20-man squad of tactical marines before they turn around and dump Fury all over my Moritat, and even less likely to put much of a dent in terminators. I like that the serpenta(s/e) will wound, for the most part, on 3+. Or, I might save the Moritat for Zone Mortalis games and use the points to make the terminator squad bigger, faster, and stronger.

Note: by swapping out the paired plasma pistols for a pair of serpenta (feeling pretty good about "serpenta" as both singular and plural), I save enough points to swap the two small-squad Breacher sergeants' power fists for thunder hammers, with enough points leftover to also swap both Laser Destroyer arrays for Quad mortars. See below. So, that's me sold on a pair of serpenta.

For the Terminators, I'd swap out the Power Swords for Axes, personally. Again if its modeled on and not magnetized, no biggie. All my terminators were put together with the "rule of cool" in mind so I have a few that I look at and kinda regret the way I geared them out but then again, they just look better that way.

The reason for Axes > swords is because its a free upgrade and lets you deal with other Terminators or 2+ save models. Sure, its unwieldy but if they aren't ignoring your 2+ save but your are theirs, well, you're in a better spot even if you're hitting last.

Again, they’re already built and, honestly, I really like the way that they look! Also, I like the flexibility the swords give against 3+, particularly because I already have two terminators with chainfists in the squad. 15 tactical marines may not have AP2 in their pocket (sergeant excluded), but they can still make terminators take a bunch of saves; power swords, and the centurion’s lightning claws, will help with that. Against another 5-man squad of terminators, this squad of guys should be able to hold their own with their majority T5 (an adversary’s power axes wound on 3+, rather than 2+, so that will help), and I will do my best to keep them away from larger squads of terminators until the magna melta on the Caestus can reduce them to a more manageable size. Of course, this squad is subject to change depending on how I rule on the Moritat question.

Apothecaries are cool. Though if you could, try to give them augury scanners to counter Deep Strikes and Infiltrators.

I considered augury scanners for my Heavy Support sergeants, and unfortunately they fall into the “nice to have” category. I’m afraid that an Augury Scanner would be of little use, however, against Deep Strikers in a Breacher Siege squad; it only allows a unit to fire its rapid-fire and heavy weapons as if they had the Interceptor special rule. Breachers don’t have heavy weapons, and bolters just would not be very effective against most Deep Strikers, at least not enough to justify the cost of the scanners. The threat of Infiltrators deploying within 18” of my Breachers cuts both ways, particularly because the Infiltrators cannot assault the first turn. The points I would spend on Augury Scanners for my Breachers really ought to be spent elsewhere, even if only on other “nice to haves,” e.g., melta bombs.

Now, the reason for my opening line on local meta and melta weapons is if you're up against mostly or exclusively 30k lists, the only thing your melta guns will be effective against are Contemptors (since they can't take armored ceramite, unlike the box dread and Deredeo) Rhinos or backfield artillery tanks. Iirc, Predators can take Armored Ceramite? With how short their effective range is, you might be better served with more Flamers. Also, flamers are guaranteed D3 hits per flamer in overwatch and you don't really want to be charging with breachers since you'd be losing out on the use of their Defensive Grenades and they have -1" to charge range.

If you're up against 40k lists, however, spam that melta and make em cry. Especially their inferior Land Raiders without Armored Ceramite!

There is no such thing as free Armored Ceramite; that’s a points premium that folks are going to have to choose to pay if they want to avoid the Melta special rule. Frankly, I would be delighted if everyone I played against paid the points to kit-out every vehicle they could in Armored Ceramite – that could potentially amount to a tactical squad or two worth of vehicle upgrades. If they don’t, then I have my Melta. But even if they do, at the end of the day the melta gun is still St 8 AP1, and even without the Melta special rule it has a chance to glance even the biggest Superheavy, and when it comes to killing big, nasty tanks, the chance to glance seems to be the name of the game. Against a Predator or a Sicaran – even one with Armored Ceramite – I might even score a Penetrating hit, and then watch that AP1 do its thing. The only downside to bringing a melta gun, in my opinion, is its paltry 12” range. But it’s undeniably nasty against charging terminators, dreadnoughts, and monstrous creatures; light to medium armored tanks that venture too close; and locked doors. Flamers are just St 4 AP 5. I’ve already got one in each short squad, and a bunch of BS5 bolters, so I think I’m sanguine about the points delta between the melta and the flamer.

Also, the Sarge has a Power Fist so you should be able to deal decent damage to most of the things you'll be running across. Melta Bombs are redundant if you take a Pfist since you can only use One or the Other to pop vehicles. So either drop the bombs (dont - they have armorbane so are actually better than Melta Weapons since they aren't affected by Armored Ceramite) or swap the Pfist for another Ap2 Weapon; so Thunderhammer (good all around if there will be multi-wound MC's or Characters with EW) or Power Axes.

No fear about me dropping the melta bombs. I’m ride or die melta bombs. I was thinking about taking thunder hammers in lieu of power fists, however. There’s a points premium to pay, but this could be a good trade-off for something else somewhere. I’ll keep it in mind.

Note: the points trade-off appears to come from swapping the Moritat's paired plasma pistols for a pair of serpenta, as discussed above. This only gets me the points for two thunder hammers, though. I could take a third thunder hammer if I also dropped the Moritat's melta bombs, but I think I'm better off with the melta bombs, particularly since the honcho of the tall squad - the one to whose sergeant I don't intend to give a thunder hammer - is guy by the name of Polux. He's kind of a big deal; I think that squad's going to be alright.

Glad you could fit a Caestus in. Besides it being very expensive points wise, its main benefit is being the only Av13 Flyer. Though I'd try to maximize the use of its "ignores bulky" rule and slap more terminators in. The Missiles being One-Shot is a letdown though but, the Magna Melta is great for doubling out FNP on Marines under its Blast Template.

Sure, the Melta guns on your breachers do just that to marines but 1-2 shots of "ignores FNP" isn't really worth it, imo, when you could be drowning them in more wounds with flamer templates or Guaranteed D3 hits.

I am digging your appreciation of the Caestus. The Caestus is a beautiful winged chariot of crushy, brutal Melta death. You may be right about needing more terminators than six to really celebrate the wonders of Misericorde, and I will certainly do it if I choose not to bring the serpenta-Moritat, but I am afraid you are so very, very wrong about 1-shot missile-thingies. No, sir – in the grim darkness of the far future, the Caestus might be armed with single-shot Firefury missiles (IA: Aeronautica, p. 30), but in 30k they armed with two wing-mounted Havoc launchers (HH:1, p. 223; LA:CAL, p. 59) that can each shoot twin-linked St 5 AP 5 small blasts up to 48” (HH: 1, p. 239; LA:CAL, p. 83) and do that all day long. Plus, with the non-clarification (FAQ pending) I received from Forge World today regarding Auxiliary Drives (see thread here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303641-the-puzzling-case-of-the-auxiliary-drive/), my Caestus ignores immobilized results on a 4+ (because I say so and you agree with me, right?). That makes it, if anything, even more difficult to kill.

LasDestroyers are good option, true. Ordnance causing an extra dice for Pen rolls is nice at S9 Ap1 but, a Quad Mortar, I find, is more versatile. For one, each mortar is shooting out 4 S8 Sunder Shots (re-roll failed Armor Pen) so it has more chances of causing damage to Vehicles like the Spartan and you also have the option of 4 (per mortar) S6 3" shots which also cause -1 LD to pinning which is decent against Blobs.

The Laser Destroyers weren’t my first choice, honestly. I thought the Quad Mortar was more fitting for the Fists, and I liked that it could be used in dual modes, although I have to admit that the subtlety of the Sunder special rule was lost on me at the time. I decided to go with Laser Destroyers because they were a bit cheaper. Since then, I’ve come to appreciate the importance of being able to tack as many glances as possible onto an AV14 monster with 4 or more hull points – see missile launchers, below – so I think I might want to find a way to swap the Laser Destroyers for Quad Mortars after all. Also, what you said about large groups of infantry.

Note: by swapping the Moritat's paired plasma pistols for a couple of serpenta, I had enough points to swap the Laser Destroyes for Quad Mortars. Add 8 more St 8, Sunder shots to my "chance to glance" arsenal.

Can't complain about the Missile Squads except that maybe a Contemptor-Mortis with Kheres or a Deredeos may be better options for Anti-Air (due to Skyfire/Interceptor) and Anti-Tank. 1) The Mortis with Kheres has 12 Shots Rending so the damage potential is much higher 2) the Deredeo has 4 TL S8 Sunder Shots and 3 Missile shots that can be fired at other targets if needed and ignore LoS and/or Cover for a guaranteed 3 Marines Dead per turn at 60"

First, I dispute your contention that a 12 St 6 Rending shots from a pair of Kheres-pattern assault cannons have a “much higher” damage potential against flyers than 10 St 7 shots with the Tank Hunters special rule from the Heavy Support squad. If you meant that, point for point, a talon of two Contemptor-Mortis dreadnoughts with Kheres might have higher damage potential than one Heavy Support squad, well then, it’s close enough that I’d have to do the math. But since I’d also have to give up an elites choice, I think that’s enough to tip the scales in favor of the Heavy Support squad.

Second, while the Deredeo’s specialized autocannon system certainly seems impressive enough, the rules I am reading for the Deredeo’s missile system don’t say anything about ignoring cover, but I am only looking at what Forge World has available here: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/D/Deredeo.pdf. Nonetheless, I cannot stand the word “Deredeo.” I don’t think it’s a real word. I don’t want it to be.

For Example, 2 Deredeos run you 440 points but, they more or less guarantee 6 Dead MEQ's per turn and can dish out 8 S8 Sunder Shots with Skyfire/Interceptor at any Flyers or without those rules at any other armor. They also are Av 13 and have Invulnerable saves which make them ever so slightly tougher than 10 3+ marines (per dread).

These are excellent points. But “Deredeo.”

However, if you have 20 Marines with ML's all modeled and stuff, might as well roll with em

The only things I’ve built so far are my Moritat (who needs new pistols), my terminators (three of whom need storm shields, now), my lightning-claw centurion (who is awesome), and – mostly – a Laser Destroyer mounted on Rapier. Heck, that’s all of I’ve bought. But I think I will continue with my two squads of Heavy Support. Why? Because Fists crush their enemies, and Heavy Support squads are built into the Fists DNA – see Legiones Astartes (Imperial Fists).

Only Glaring problem I see is that the list has no real transportation options. The Majority of your list will be Footslogging it and while they can all re-roll failed Armor Saves from Blast/Templates, if they have, for example, a Plasma Deredeo lobbing Ap2 5" blasts at you, that Void-Hardened armor won't be doing you much good.

Yea as slips has identified the transport/mobility is gonna be a potential issue (one i am also having in a very similar army...) my only solution I can suggest is to look at if you can drop some major options and include a LR?..... dedicated transport for breachers....?

It's true. These 40 marines - divided as they are into three squads - with their T5, their 3+ rerollable saves against flamers and any blast with an AP4 or worse, their 6+ invul save against shooting attacks, their sergeant with artificer armor, and their apothecary giving them a 5+ FNP against anything doesn't cause Instant Death, are just going to have to walk (because let's face it, they're not going to run) across the field. But against all of the lists I've seen so far, I like their chances. There are only a few things that trouble me.

I haven’t seen any rules for this Plasma Deredeo (*shudder...that word*) of which you speak. Sounds like a job for cover saves in the short term and a whole lot of St 8 glances in the near term. But that only really worries me with respect to my Heavy Support squads and, maybe, my Rapiers. You’re right that my Void-Hardened armor (3+) isn’t proof against AP2 large blasts, whether they’re from this Dere...dreadnought or from something far nastier, like a Typhon. But my breachers are all T5, so it’ll take St 10 to negate their FNP. I am not much good at math – that’s why I’m not an engineer – but as long as it’s not St 10, even if it’s AP2 or AP3 I reckon that I basically have a little better than 2/5 chance of saving my guys. That’s not great, sure, but that’s not exactly set-‘em-up-and-knock-‘em-down, either, and while the big bads are shooting at my Breachers, they’re not shooting at my Heavy Support squads or my Rapiers, which will be standing by to make it rain. And my chainfists are coming....

Thats all I could think of...

Well, I greatly, greatly appreciate it. I think this has been a very helpful exercise. I think my list will be improve by swapping the Moritat's plasma pistols for a pair of serpenta; by adding thunder hammers to the two short-squad sergeants; and by swapping the Laser Destroyer arrays for Quad Mortars. Respecting the areas in which I have a different idea for my force, I appreciate the opportunity to articulate my reasoning. I don't like the word "Deredeo" - at all - but I thank you for making me aware of its capabilities.

I am looking forward to buying, building, painting, and fielding this force.

If I decided to drop the Moritat from this list, and depending on the Forge World FAQ, the Auxiliary Drive from the Caestus Assault Ram, I could field three more terminators (two with storm shields and power axes, one with a heavy flamer). But that's a decision for later, after some play-testing, I think.

Thanks again!

[Slips]

Yeah, I kinda consistently get the Kharybdis' Missile Launcher(s) up with the Caestus since the formers are One-Shot/Use and I rarely (if ever) see any lists incorporating either.

 

The Auxiliary Drive would make sense to work that way on the Caestus/Flyers; we'll see with the FAQ.

 

Agree about the 10 Man ML Squad > 1 Contemptor-Mortis with Kheres. But, 2 Mortis' with Kheres will cost 400+ points. Yeah, at that point you'd have to do the math. If only you could take 'em in Talons to minimize on Elites Slots usage v_v Tank Hunters does help swing it into the HS Squads favor a bit.

 

Rules for the Deredeo: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303013-horus-heresy-weekender-2015-news-book-v-tempest/?p=3949539 Note that one equipped with Plasma and the Antomantic Pavise might be a good addition to the list to act as close support to your large breacher squad since it'll be boosting Invulnerables by +1. Then again, they become a bigger fire magnet.. Just call em Eddies :p

 

Also agree on the Deredeos Missiles not ignoring cover - just intervening terrain that block Line of Sight. Wording is kinda wonky which leads to those kind of assumptions..

 

While yes, vs most armies, the above-average toughness of the list in general will be a great boon, the thing to worry about the most is them out-maneuvering you. But, if you play defensively and to the strengths of the Breacher Squads and make them come to you, it should make dealing with them easier.

 

Leaving him as a Blank Consul is ok I guess. If you do drop the Moritat, consider turning him into a Primus Medicae to make your shield terminators that much harder to deal with.

2+/3++ T5 and FNP 5+? Sure! Not..because I have a thing for them...or anything >_>

 

Thunderhammers are cool, yeah. Certainly it you aren't so pressed for points they're worth consideration. Especially if you're facing MCs or At-Initiative multi-wound Characters with T5+ or Eternal Warrior.

 

I concede the point on the Melta Guns - I just slap it on LITERALLY anything that can take it since most of the vehicles I field are in the 200+ points range and to see them evaporate to a single melta shot would probably make me flip the table :p

In ZM, yeah take em every time. Only Box and Deredeo Dreads can take Armored Ceramite anyways so you wont see as much of it. But in open-field games, there are probably better options. If only Graviton Guns weren't Heavy...

 

Uuhh apart from that, everything else is sound unless I missed something due to the onset of this headache >_>

 

Anyways, glad to have another Fist aboard the Heresy Train :P

[Sully ad Bellum]

Rules for the Deredeo: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303013-horus-heresy-weekender-2015-news-book-v-tempest/?p=3949539 Note that one equipped with Plasma and the Antomantic Pavise might be a good addition to the list to act as close support to your large breacher squad since it'll be boosting Invulnerables by +1. Then again, they become a bigger fire magnet.. Just call em Eddies

Gnarly! Eddies it is!

Thanks again for your help!