balanced themed csm armies

[Aspiringchaoschampion]

Now i know we all know the most top tier list chaos can do is a rush list and i agree with the philosphy of this to some extent however i do think a balanced list can still function. Now im not gonna act like a balanced list is going to place top spot at a grand tournament but i think it could give alit of armies a run for their money.

 

My plan for this post is to share my experiances with alot of our units which are not taken very often and with a balanced list. Now yes alot of the stuff i say will be meta specific but i feel that even if this post manages to help 1 or 2 chaos players im happy with that for we all have our own preferred playstyle

 

Now ive compared the chaos marine codex to the last few codexs released and aside from the new crons which i havent faced yet but imo they are all around a similar level to us. Now its true our tactical marines/chosen/tetmies/havocs and raptiors are not amazing but i do think they can be effective in a balalanced list for example

10 chaos space marines with 2 plasma guns (maybe chuck a power axe and melta bombs on the champ) in a rhino with dozer blade. Now this unit isnt going to set the world on fire on its own but it can hunt light vehicles teq meq and monsterous creatures. In addition due to the bolters its not bad vs hordes because of weight of fire. Now its true you can do the same with plague marines for cheaper but you are getting less shots and idk about you but i would take 16 bolter shots + plasma gun shots at 12" over the 4 plasma and 6 bolter shots from the plague marines.

[King Jackal]

I don't think it plays to the few strengths that we have to do balanced lists. Always interested to read topics like this though, so I'm looking forward to what you come up with.

 

As for new Necrons, they are pretty damn good. Up there with Eldar I reckon

[Rain]

New Necrons are incredibly good, with the Decurian detachment the entire army has 4+ FnP that isn't even negated by ID (just becomes. 5+). Their combat units are jump infantry with move through cover and AP2 that can also shoot their AP2...staves for some silly reason. Their shooty units glance everything on 6's and get mass rerolls when near a stalker.

 

Oh and then there are wraiths. T5 2W I5 3++ beasts with rending which when taken in the proper formation (which they always are) get reanimation protocols from being close to a Spyder, and become relentless allowing them to shoot their S4 AP2 instadeath on 6's guns before a charge. One of the best assault units in the game in a slow shooting oriented army. Well done GW.

[Trevak Dal]

Okay, so what you are wanting to do, is to put a 10 man CTac squad in a Rhino with Dozerblades?

Not to sound like Jeske, but ah...Space Wolves do that and have MUCH better rules.

The dozerblade is good for what it does, but it doesn't offer anything different than Loyalists get. We have a piece of wargear that disallows the enemy from being able to do something (dirge caster) and it's only 5 points.

Granted, we can't assault out of our rhinos...but used in conjunction with an assaulting unit (raptors, bikers, Daemon Prince, Spawn, Juggerlord, etc).

You know how smug Guard and Necron players are when they have a fat blob of guys sitting on an objective look? Like how they're safe, because if you assault them with your Big Nasty, he's going to eat a bucket of dice in overwatch-and 6's come up?

5 Point dirge caster on a Rhino that gets close can in his corn flakes and your Daemon Prince/Juggerlord/etc. goes Rally Round the Family. Nothing is more satisfying to me, than seeing my MacePrince make big units go away-a guy I was playing ran his chaptermaster away from my Daemon Prince.

"Know no fear" indeed. We haven't let him live it down.

Most of my lists tend to mirror Loyalist ones, and my group contends that Drop Pods okay for me to use (copy pasted from Loyalists), mostly so I can mix things up every once and a while.

But as far as "official" lists, I like a Lord (or Sorcerer with Force Stave and Murder Sword-Giselburtus Rolls like Gangsta Gandalf on the Darkside) with a Chosen Bodyguard, Mark of Khorne (mix of Offense and Defense with Rage and Counter attack), or Mark of Slaanesh for similar reasons (+1 initiative doesn't often go away, and FNP Apothecary on a Stiiick is pretty cool) the Chosen have the Champ upgraded with some kind of Power weapon and Combi, with a hidden power weapon in the squad (sometimes a fist, more often a Maul for the concussive properties).

2 Ctac squads-with Combi weapon/Meltabomb, 2 specials in Rhinos.

2 5 man Raptor squads, with either 2x Melta or 2x Flamers. People don't realize that taking specials with raptors doesn't have them lose an attack (they keep their pistol and CCW).

I may take a Heldrake, Bike squad (PF or LC /Combi Melta, 2x Melta), or Spawn Pack.

I take two Nurgle Marked Oblits, and 2 Predators (Autocannon/Lascannon sponsons, and a Triple Las).

an also shoot their AP2...staves for some silly reason.

[Aspiringchaoschampion]

I put the dozer blade on as i tend to play on forest/ruin heavy boards so alot of the time i go into cover.

 

Imo we can do a fairly balanced list yes other armies can do it better but its not like im siggesting a full daemon csm list :p

 

I dont find dirge casters ever do much for me generally if im assaulting a unit a rhino with dirge isnt in range (i use it to take objectives in maelstrom)

[Sheesh Mode]

As far as I can see it, an Emperor's Children list focusing on range and Rapier Battery support is a fairly balanced chaos list. Competitive even. 

[Tenebris]

So far I had the best result with our codex with the Noise Marines list. Between Blastmasters, I5 and Doom Siren and Daemons of Slaanesh allies I was able to fight quite effectively against most of the armies in my club. Still truth be told Nurgle is much more forgiving and effective, I simply dislike playing Plague Marines as a crutch. 

 

Said that I have been trying to find a balanced list in the past few years but it usually ended always bad. The meta is shifting every two months due to the new releases so it is hard to make it work. 

[Aspiringchaoschampion]

I think this could be a list i may run for a while

HQ

Warpsmith Aura of Dark Glory

Sorceror Level 3 sigil spell familiar

Troops

10 csm 2 plasma guns rhino with dozer blade

5 csm melta gun combi melta and bombs on the champ in a rhino

25 cultists 23 autoguns heavy stubber shotgun on the champ

Fast attack

5 raptors 2 melta guns champion has a power maul and melta bombs

Heavy support

5x havocs with 4 autocannons

2 obliterators

1 obliterator

Or atleast thats the core il be building my list around

[the jeske]

Could you explain the smith?

[Tenebris]

Could you explain the smith?

 

 A smith is a person who works the metal. We know many types of smiths. The most common is a blacksmith, a smith who works with iron and steel. There is also a warpsmith, a smith who works with the Warp... or metal, or iron, or flesh... I am confused now.

[Slaanbull]

He obviously means the choice of putting the Warpsmith in the army list above. With no vehicles to repair or(to me) obvious choices of bodyguard, I'd be interested to hear Aspiringchaoschampions thoughts on it as well. Since I've wanted to run one for a while now.

[Tenebris]

He obviously means the choice of putting the Warpsmith in the army list above. With no vehicles to repair or(to me) obvious choices of bodyguard, I'd be interested to hear Aspiringchaoschampions thoughts on it as well. Since I've wanted to run one for a while now.

Oh come on, do I really need to put smilies into every post to make it look like a joke

Warpsmith is easy to justify in such a list. It is a character who can reliably shoot and even have a say in melee. Consider it a jack of all trades.

[Slaanbull]

Right on, I might've needed a smileyface as well. Just wanted to be a bit snarky as well that's all.
He might be a good choice for the rhinosquad, another meltashot and a flamer for when they disembark is quite good. The warpsmith just seems like an option I'd like to add but usually end up neglecting for another choice in a HQ that seems more economical for the points, or additional upgrades for my squads that'd result in the same possibilities.

To add on earlier sentiments I'll add my coin to the noise marine pool, blastmasters appear cosly for their points, but they've performed great in every battle I've included them in. The noise marines are great to have sitting on objectives as well, the fearless is just too important for me in my fights.
I'd love to try a close combat oriented noise marine heavy army, larger squads and icons is something I haven't tried yet.
Played three battles in my store at 600pts last month and won all three convincingly, two marine(white scars and dark angels) and a tyranid player. I had a min. blastmaster squad in a havoc launcher equipped rhino, a lone hades autocannon rapier, lone obliterator, two spawn in each their squad and a 20-something cultist squad to babysit my Slaanesh marked+Burning Brand lord. I was surprised by the amount of firepower and actually felt a bit bad with all the mid to long range decimation it put out. Thinking I had made a fluffy dakka army of marines and their pets.

[the jeske]

Oh come on, do I really need to put smilies into every post to make it look like a joke

Warpsmith is easy to justify in such a list. It is a character who can reliably shoot and even have a say in melee. Consider it a jack of all trades.

this one has a bolt pistol to be shoty? he does have a +2 though. still there is no unit for him to hang around or tank shots with his +2 and inv[although tanking with inv at t4 is offten a dangerous thing to do].

[Iron Skull Mask]

Forgot about the BS 5 Melta shot & flamer the WP brings? Or was that another joke?

[Zeratil]

My 'this is my serious face' Thousand Sons warband themed list is something like:

 

Primary Detachment:

 

Warpsmith

20 Cultists, 1 Flamer

10 Cultists

Sicaran, Lascannon sponsons

Sicaran, Lascannon sponsons

Fire Raptor, Reaper Batteries, Balefire Missiles

Dreadclaw

Hell Blade

 

Allied Detachment:

lvl 3 Sorcerer with upgrades, goes for Biomancy

8 Thousand Sons

Storm Eagle with TLLC and MM

2 Mutilators with MoT (aka rampaging Legio Cybernetica killbots)

Vindicator

 

Comes out at about 2000 points.

[Slaanbull]

Awesome list. I love the mutilators.

Sorry, that's all I got. :)

[the jeske]

Forgot about the BS 5 Melta shot & flamer the WP brings? Or was that another joke?

It wasn't there is no way for him to be in effective range of either. Now if he could join the raptors, then it would be something different[am ignoring for a second the whole why take raptors anyway thing].

 

 

Why MoT and not MoN on the mutas?

Why the 1ksons at all, eat up a lot of points and the list doesn't need str 4 weapons.Why it does lack fast moving units. taking 2 csm squads in rhinos would be better.

 

what does the vindi do int he list ?

[Slaanbull]

MoT and thousand sons because it wouldn't be a tzeentch+thousand sons army without them. :) remember that the thread header is not only balanced armies, but armies with a theme.

 

Maybe the vindicator could move up flanked by a large cultist squad containing the warpsmith. It would be quite the fire magnet to let the sicarans do their job.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Oh and then there are wraiths. T5 2W I5 3++ beasts with rending which when taken in the proper formation (which they always are) get reanimation protocols from being close to a Spyder, and become relentless allowing them to shoot their S4 AP2 instadeath on 6's guns before a charge. One of the best assault units in the game in a slow shooting oriented army. Well done GW.

 

How do they get Relentless? As far as I know Beasts don't get it standard, the Canoptek Harvest formation can only give them RP, Fleet or Shred, and the Decurion Detachment 'only' confers Ever-Living. The core Reclamation Legion formation gets Relentless, but that only applies to the models in that formation, not the additional detachments that form the Decurion.

[Aspiringchaoschampion]

The smith goes with the 5 man csm squad in a rhino 3 melta shots should make sure vehicles stay away from them + with the flamer will keep hordes honest

[Zhukov]

The kind of balanced themed CSM armies you suggest aren't good simply because they aren't balanced. They aren't balanced because they can't deal with any list which has strenghts. How come? Most of your units are simply overpriced, which means you do not have enough tools to deal with particular threats. Almost no army nowadays can be build purely balanced, but we especially can't do this. With all respect, but what you suggest is literally a 'normal' army, the kind of army which people run automaticly in gaming clubs etc, without them even trying. I call them rainbow armies, or battleforce based armies.

 

Now im not gonna act like a balanced list is going to place top spot at a grand tournament but i think it could give alit of armies a run for their money.

 

I disagree, it in itself wont give a lot of armies a run for their money, unless those armies are even worse and/or run by incompetent generals. Again: The kind of list you are suggesting in this threat literally has no strenghts, I'm sorry.

 

Investing points into troops does not make your list more balanced, because you just invest more points into overpriced stuff.

[Rain]

 

Oh and then there are wraiths. T5 2W I5 3++ beasts with rending which when taken in the proper formation (which they always are) get reanimation protocols from being close to a Spyder, and become relentless allowing them to shoot their S4 AP2 instadeath on 6's guns before a charge. One of the best assault units in the game in a slow shooting oriented army. Well done GW.

 

How do they get Relentless? As far as I know Beasts don't get it standard, the Canoptek Harvest formation can only give them RP, Fleet or Shred, and the Decurion Detachment 'only' confers Ever-Living. The core Reclamation Legion formation gets Relentless, but that only applies to the models in that formation, not the additional detachments that form the Decurion.

 

 

Canoptek Harvest gives relentless and move through cover standard, as well as allowing you to choose an adaptive subroutine each turn for units within 12" of the Spyder.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Oh and then there are wraiths. T5 2W I5 3++ beasts with rending which when taken in the proper formation (which they always are) get reanimation protocols from being close to a Spyder, and become relentless allowing them to shoot their S4 AP2 instadeath on 6's guns before a charge. One of the best assault units in the game in a slow shooting oriented army. Well done GW.

How do they get Relentless? As far as I know Beasts don't get it standard, the Canoptek Harvest formation can only give them RP, Fleet or Shred, and the Decurion Detachment 'only' confers Ever-Living. The core Reclamation Legion formation gets Relentless, but that only applies to the models in that formation, not the additional detachments that form the Decurion.

Canoptek Harvest gives relentless and move through cover standard, as well as allowing you to choose an adaptive subroutine each turn for units within 12" of the Spyder.

Well derp, not one of my finer moments

[Urauloth]

 

 

Oh and then there are wraiths. T5 2W I5 3++ beasts with rending which when taken in the proper formation (which they always are) get reanimation protocols from being close to a Spyder, and become relentless allowing them to shoot their S4 AP2 instadeath on 6's guns before a charge. One of the best assault units in the game in a slow shooting oriented army. Well done GW.

 

How do they get Relentless? As far as I know Beasts don't get it standard, the Canoptek Harvest formation can only give them RP, Fleet or Shred, and the Decurion Detachment 'only' confers Ever-Living. The core Reclamation Legion formation gets Relentless, but that only applies to the models in that formation, not the additional detachments that form the Decurion.

 

 

Canoptek Harvest gives relentless and move through cover standard, as well as allowing you to choose an adaptive subroutine each turn for units within 12" of the Spyder.

 

 

Holy balls that's horrifying.