Skalpynock Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 As of now I'd say the First Legion. Their pre-Calibanite fluff hasn't yet been expanded enough for me to find the "thing", sometimes a single line in the fluff of a legion that makes them brilliant in my mind. Often, it is in the Unification/Early Crusade era part that I find that thing. So until the day where FW decides to write that line, which might be well after the Caucasian Etnarchy Ur-Khasis warriors get models, and the Saturnine Fleets their own chapter in a book, if the last Weekender is of any indication, I don't care about the Astartes Prima, because I don't know about the Astartes Prima. I used to feel that way about the Night Lords and Alpha Legion, but now I don't think about them; rather I think of the Crimson Sons and the Last Unity/Amaranth Coil. The Emperor's Children I have some doubts about, but being a mere 200 Astartes in the *interesting* time period, they have my apologies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303900-the-most-boring-primarchlegion/page/3/#findComment-3961119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 i like them all but i dislike aspects about them all as-well. I don't, necessarily, dispute with some of what you put down. Only thing is, I don't see these aspects as things to dislike or be bored over. They're just examples of a relatively well-rounded character. Everyone has their flaws, and in this setting a lot of the point is that there are more damning features than redeeming ones. I like Perturabo because of his promise, his ingenuity, his ruthless drive and his stubbornness, tunnel-vision, self-obsessive nature. He's a walking contradiction. Finds the self to be worthless in the face of the whole when it comes to the Legion, and yet fails to see the whole beyond his own self when it comes to the Imperium. I don't see this as a negative thing, this is why I like him. It's like how I always say that I'm a fan of every Legion, but identify most as a Loyalist. This doesn't mean I don't like the Traitors in spite of my own words, or even that I like the Loyalists more. I love all of them, and it really is, more or less, equal. Even if I do see Loyalists as heroes and Traitors as villains, which is just as an example in this setting of grey shades, heroes are worthless without good villains. I'm a Loyalist, but Loyalists are worthless without the Traitors, and so I want the Traitors to be just as well developed and interesting as the Loyalists, and I'm not disappointed with what we currently have as a whole, aside from those outlying portrayals by the likes of McNeil and Thorpe. As an aside, though, I wouldn't list Guilliman's inability to take criticism as a fault, considering the biggest thing about him in the setting, the Codex Astartes and the capabilities of his Legion as codified in it, is largely due to his ability to take criticism extremely well. Not so much dislikes as observations in the content i've come across so far which depicts the primarchs and how they act in the situations in which they find themselves. Dont get me wrong I agree character comes from how an individual reacts in the absence of a skill or ability and must utilise what he/she knows and feels is morally correct whilst being true to the ideals they are trying to uphold. My first instances and views of Guilliman in particular are that he allows frustration to cloud his judgement and can become just as enraged and uncoordinated as anyone of us but falls back upon his strengths as a organisational genius to better mold himself thusly becomes more mindful to criticism and begins seeking it as a means by which to now define himsellf. With Pertuabo I could not of put it better, he is a cruel analytically biased individual who can make the decision many normal men could not as he sees it as an effective means to an end and those are indeed strengths as if he can draw like minded individuals to his side/command he is poised to act from a position of supreme logic and would feel justified as his legionaries would undoubtedly feel the same and reflect his nature making them potentially an even more pure form of military fighting force, but they would then be faced with even more hardship when the great crusade ended, an even purer military force in service now a means to an end that is no longer relevant. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303900-the-most-boring-primarchlegion/page/3/#findComment-3961124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 For me I'd have to say Dark Angels, they feel like a half measure of a bunch of different legions. They're shady, but not as shady as the alpha legion. They're knightly, but not as committed to it as Imperial Fists and their MAXIMUM TEMPLAR EVERYTHING. And their Primarch is a skilled blonde haired swordsman, but who has none of the personality and awesome angelic qualities of Sanguinius. I guess... they like plasma a little more than the others? Idk, they've always felt very forgettable and 'meh'. Plus they are what, one of 3 black-armored legions? *AHEM* "We were the FIRST to be painted black. All others just wish they were us. Even Horus had his Justariean painted black because he was so jelly." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303900-the-most-boring-primarchlegion/page/3/#findComment-3961151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I thought it was hilarious when Roboute was star struck by the Lion in Unremembered Empire lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303900-the-most-boring-primarchlegion/page/3/#findComment-3961166 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I thought it was hilarious when Roboute was star struck by the Lion in Unremembered Empire lol. And from Abnett too. That's canon for sure :D the Lion is Bobby G's Spiritual Liege. I wish we got to see more from the lower ranks in battles from the Dark Angels and Imperial Fists' side. We don't get to see how their legion acts on the lower tiers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303900-the-most-boring-primarchlegion/page/3/#findComment-3961170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdemayo Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I find the Iron Warriors pretty boring, exciting neither interest nor hate. So they are angry about something or other, and like tanks and seiges. Not very exciting. Same with the Salamanders. Flamers. Meh. I liked their old African Smith motif a lot better than their new "glowing eyes" schtick. As others have pointed out, though, each legion is tailored to a specific theme (and playstyle). So a lot of it is just a matter of what each player likes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303900-the-most-boring-primarchlegion/page/3/#findComment-3961197 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 For me it depends who is writing them as much as anything else. For example the AL in Legion are fantastic and interesting, but in Raven's Flight the level of shenanigans is just too corny to be appealing. Similarly Space Wolves veer from really cool warriors dedicated to their cause and willing to do whatever it takes to achieve victory to cartoony "grrr, snarl I'm a viking werewolf in space" Overall though, I think the Legion that least appeals to me is the Dark Angels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303900-the-most-boring-primarchlegion/page/3/#findComment-3961214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tharand Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Seems like the Dark Angels leading the pack right now. I like to think it has a lot to do with the inconsistent portrayal of the legion in the different books and short stories. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303900-the-most-boring-primarchlegion/page/3/#findComment-3961268 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I've never liked them in 40k either so I didn't like them even before BL touched the Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303900-the-most-boring-primarchlegion/page/3/#findComment-3961276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal Son of Magnus Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 For me it's The Salamanders. Maybe it's just the quality of their novels clouding my judgement but whenever I think about them I just think of either 'good guy marines' or 'generic space soldiers'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303900-the-most-boring-primarchlegion/page/3/#findComment-3961283 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 They are so annoyingly drab (the DA, that is). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303900-the-most-boring-primarchlegion/page/3/#findComment-3961284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Seems like the Dark Angels leading the pack right now. I like to think it has a lot to do with the inconsistent portrayal of the legion in the different books and short stories. I agree. Hopefully when they get fleshed out, they'll be much better. I think over the weekender it was said that the first was involved in some brutal displays of power and massacres. Maybe the Thunder Warriors weren't that far off as we thought were they? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303900-the-most-boring-primarchlegion/page/3/#findComment-3961301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorkimedes Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Sons of Horus are the dullest for me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303900-the-most-boring-primarchlegion/page/3/#findComment-3961349 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millicant Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 It saddens me that so many people find The First so unappealing, but I can't fault anyone for feeling that way. The representation in Black Library books has been appalling. Shy of one short story (NOT The Lion) and a half-appearance in an Ultramarine book, I too have found it hard to stay loyal to my First love (see what I did there?). I, like many, sincerely hope that the glory of the First Legion is returned once Forgeworld have a crack at them. Otherwise we will slip into distant memory and be nothing but a shade of black amongst the nightmares of the heresy... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303900-the-most-boring-primarchlegion/page/3/#findComment-3961360 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 It saddens me that so many people find The First so unappealing, but I can't fault anyone for feeling that way. The representation in Black Library books has been appalling. Shy of one short story (NOT The Lion) and a half-appearance in an Ultramarine book, I too have found it hard to stay loyal to my First love (see what I did there?). I, like many, sincerely hope that the glory of the First Legion is returned once Forgeworld have a crack at them. Otherwise we will slip into distant memory and be nothing but a shade of black amongst the nightmares of the heresy... I try with my guys... http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/treacyjohn2/9c94b1c855e92061103d0cccce7ecba9_zpsc28e442d.jpg The nice thing is I have room to wiggle to make fluff, loyalty, and previous campaigns. Which reminds me that I need to get on that... :D Edit: the various adult beverages in the background are for morale purposes because we don't have a consistent, loving writer or shoulder pads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303900-the-most-boring-primarchlegion/page/3/#findComment-3961366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Kage Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Boring? As many have said before, most of the 'boring' ones are those that haven't been represented well by the HH game books or the BL novels. I have a natural dislike toward the I and the XIII and the novels have made me despise the III and XVII to a lesser extent, but the I Legion is in the most dire need of some attention. The two DA books were bad and beyond those, there hasn't been much written about them worth mentioning. My vote for least boring that shouldn't be in here at all? The IV. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303900-the-most-boring-primarchlegion/page/3/#findComment-3961374 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 This really isn't about which legion or primarch is inherently boring. "Boring" is a deeply subjective judgement. I'm asking which legion and/or primarch piques your interest the least...which (in your opinion) is the most bland and flavour-less if you will. I don't like certain legions, but those legions definitely have a strong character. I find Death Guard and Iron Warriors to be quite dull. Their whole theme seems to be resilience and grinding attrition...I guess the Iron Warriors also treat war like a mathematical equation. Seems a bit dull to me. The Raven Guard don't seem to have much character either...mostly because Deliverance Lost is horribly written. Likewise...the core concept of the Blood Angels is really cool but Fear to Tread made them out to be the blandest of the bland Vanilla marines with a red paint job. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303900-the-most-boring-primarchlegion/page/3/#findComment-3961397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Before the coming of FW, I traditionally tended to find the Traitors (both Legions & Primarchs) more interesting, as in their fall they often received a lot more attention and flaws that made for interesting reading as opposed to the Loyalists. Since the FW series started many Legions/Primarchs I didn't care for before (whether that be due to personal bias/poor writing depends on a lot of things) have really grown on me. I still believe the Traitors are almost always more interesting than their Loyalist counterparts, but perhaps that's a personal thing. Some Legions who don't feature in many novels have been a bit unlucky in their representation. I dislike the Ultrasmurfs strongly because of the Ward era in 40k but eagerly await seeing what Alan Bligh, Andy Hoare & co accomplish with them. If I had to pick a Legion I find the least interesting though, I'd say the Salamanders. They always just felt bland to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303900-the-most-boring-primarchlegion/page/3/#findComment-3961414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Before I actually looked at their fluff for the horus heresy I found the imperial fists to be incredibly dull. Then I realized they are the german tuetonic knights who also like the build stuff. Also them crosses. Personally I found the luna wolves a bit dull I mean you have the ferocity of a space wolf and tactical brilliance of an ultramarine. Yawn. They are more interesting as sons of horus in my opinion. Dark angels are kinda boring mostly because there hasn't been much stuff on them yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303900-the-most-boring-primarchlegion/page/3/#findComment-3961436 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 Before I actually looked at their fluff for the horus heresy I found the imperial fists to be incredibly dull. Then I realized they are the german tuetonic knights who also like the build stuff. Also them crosses. Personally I found the luna wolves a bit dull I mean you have the ferocity of a space wolf and tactical brilliance of an ultramarine. Yawn. They are more interesting as sons of horus in my opinion. Dark angels are kinda boring mostly because there hasn't been much stuff on them yet. I like the Dark Angels but I also find them to be a bit bland. It's not that I like bland characterisation. I think the DA have great potential to be really interesting legion. In my opinion, every legion has great potential...but I'm not talking about potential. I'm talking about how they've been treated so far. ADB has done them well. No one else has. I think the IF and the DA both have this "knights in space" thing going on although the IF seem to have quite a few Greek-sounding names. That said, I would like to see both these legions be a little more than Teutonic Knights and Secret Knights in space. For instance...Wraight made the Scars more than Mongols in space. Abnett made the Wolves more than Vikings in space. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303900-the-most-boring-primarchlegion/page/3/#findComment-3961452 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBA Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Wraight, Abnett, McNeill, or ADB need to tackle RG in a full heresy novel. Nothing would make me more happy BL wise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303900-the-most-boring-primarchlegion/page/3/#findComment-3961455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Sounds like Gav is handling our next book grrrr Then we'll just be traitor knights with McGuffin teleporters in space. Sounds like we won't get anymore good fluff till Lord Bligh deems to shed his glorious personage our way. Edit: my iPhones machine spirit rebels against my wishes with autocorrect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303900-the-most-boring-primarchlegion/page/3/#findComment-3961456 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizur Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Iron Hands and Raven Guard. Booth Legions are boring to death. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303900-the-most-boring-primarchlegion/page/3/#findComment-3961465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 Sounds like Gav is handling our next book grrrr At one point, there was a rumour that Andy Hoare would be handling Heresy White Scars. The horror...the Hoare Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303900-the-most-boring-primarchlegion/page/3/#findComment-3961505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I don't even really know much of Andy Hoare's work but Chris Wraight doing the White Scars was an excellent decision. Scars was fantastic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303900-the-most-boring-primarchlegion/page/3/#findComment-3961554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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