Millicant Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 My personal fan(boy) theory is is that the First were ordered by the Emps to kill off the Thunder Earriors to blood themselves and prove their loyalty. Whether or not this will be done by FW or not is pure speculation at best. But if it does pan out....I just want you all to know I called it! The piece they did for the War Hounds taking out a final hold-out kind of implied that this was a singular occurrence, that usually the Thunder Warriors simply died out (which may or may not be as intended), which to me puts a hamper on this theory. I don't think they would have mentioned its notability if the First Legion had regularly done the same, even if the information was being repressed. Personally, my pet-theory is that the First Legion was made too similar to the Thunder Warriors in the beginning, and this is why there were reports of atrocities and massacres as was apparently mentioned at the Weekender. They were, after all, the first Legion. Part of the reason for them being the proto-legion was to finally put to test what up to that point was conjecture and theory. According to the Alpha Legion article, the Dark Angels were the only Legion to not undergo an initial 'alpha' stage. Why? Something must have happened to the First to deem it a required step for the others. Part of me is really hoping that it will be something that will make the still-Terranbound Imperium look at the Emperor in horror, with cries of 'What have you done?' Something that would have made even his most ardent supporters question his judgement, his sanity, his intentions. Imagine what mere twenty Legions did to an entire galaxy. Imagine what half of those Legions did to Terra, in the end. It doesn't take a leap of imagination to think that seeing the first instance of this promise, this potential, even just a microcosm of it, might have a devastating impact. I don't think it'll have a lasting impact though, or be something that is incorporated into the identity of the First Legion or the Dark Angels, but it's something that I feel there should be when you are exploring the origins of the very first attempt at creating the Legiones Astartes. Which the Dark Angels happen to be. Edit: Because I don't even really think it matters that it is the Dark Angels. If the lore had said that, despite the numbering, it was the VII Legion whose gene-seed was first available for full testing and implantation, I'd be saying the above for the Imperial Fists. My pet-theory isn't intended to be something I want to have the Dark Angels be, just the 'first created legion' be. Conn I have been a big fan of your posts lately. This is excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJedi Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 In the original story Angron turned around and was the last one off Terra when Horus died. He grudgingly left. This was full on Daemon Primarch, Khorne whorshiping, Angron. Does anything we've read in the Horus Heresy suggest that their version of Angron could do that? Their version is just a mindless beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komrk Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Well, I can't exactly say I think any of them are boring but... Of the side armies I've considered Salamanders, Death Guard, and Iron Warriors I couldn't even get off the drawing board. Very possibly because their rules and fluff move towards armies focused on more heavy units which, as much as I want to love, I just can't. I've never used Terminators (never liked them) and I generally only run one heavy whether I'm using the Raven Guard Rite of War or not. Even in 40k I've always focused on Fast Attack and Elite more than Heavy Support. If I had to go with on a fluff base... I have to agree that the Lion has had it rough with so many different versions. Also I find the First more bland than the Ultramarines. What's the First's strength so far? Tactical Geniuses. Well who else has that? Sons of Horus and Ultramarines. But they also have things that mark them out above the Dark Angels. What else do the Dark Angels have? The wings that are vaguely mentioned? Ancient weapons that we never see used (as far as I'm aware) and no one knows what they are. They might as well not even have them at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Kage Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 What else do the Dark Angels have? http://i.imgur.com/lTNE4fW.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millicant Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Ugh see BCK that's the stuff I hate. That story doesn't exist to me. For that very heretically-themed reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 You know this thread has given me some motivation to take my most hated legion and turn them into something interesting, jihadist Arabic inspired revenge fuelled XVIIIth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdemayo Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Ugh see BCK that's the stuff I hate. That story doesn't exist to me. For that very heretically-themed reason. Actually doesn't surprise me much that the lion might bend the rules on Xenos tech. Doesn't he secretly hang out with short, hooded Warp entities? Nothing suspicious there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Arkley Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Leman Russ and his Space Dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millicant Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Ugh see BCK that's the stuff I hate. That story doesn't exist to me. For that very heretically-themed reason.Actually doesn't surprise me much that the lion might bend the rules on Xenos tech. Doesn't he secretly hang out with short, hooded Warp entities? Nothing suspicious there. See there's another thing that hasn't been addressed very well. The most we know is that they briefly appeared in one book to essentially do nothing, but otherwise this is a very mysterious and oft-overlooked part of Dark Angel fluff that I'm worried will become another warp-engine gimmick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 DA need something going for them after perty robbed those pretty siege engines. That clearly won't ever see the light of day again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosco Toppings Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I think the Fists are the most boring legion. Imagine being stuck talking to Dorn at a party Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 "That new ceramite looks good" "I agree" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I think the Fists are the most boring legion. Imagine being stuck talking to Dorn at a party Dorn 'You know whats more exiting than walls' Imperial first 'Erm, bigger walls?' Dorn' quite right, you know whats even more exiting than bigger walls?' Imperial Fist 'Erm bigger than bigger walls?' Dorn ' quite right, you know what even more exiting than bigger than bigger walls?' Imperial fist '........right, anyone who wants to join the black Templar's raise your hand, eternal crusade in which we never have to come back to buzz killington!' *6999 hand's shoot up* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I think the Fists are the most boring legion. Imagine being stuck talking to Dorn at a party Lol, to be fair, he was portrayed pretty well in Horus rising and actually made a joke. Then again, one time does not a trend make :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdemayo Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I get the impression Dorn has a deep appreciation for culture, even if he's too pragmatic to indulge it much. He seemed upset at the war's cultural cost in Lightning Tower and the Last Remembrancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I never knew what to think of Rogal Dorn, I always thought although he may be as tactically efficient as as tank, that tanks' main color would be beige but after reading the passage in Visions of Heresy, blood games how even though he is forced to get his own hands dirty and warp in front of the path of two custodes to stop a near fatal cock up in intelligence from exposing their secret informer, how he casually shrugs of the gravity of the situation and almost laughingly speak to the custodes 'you would be willing to oppose 6 astartees and a primarch to complete your duty' or something along those lines. I now see him as a more of a Russell Crowe esque person playing the role of Maximus Decimus Veridius, a serious general, but aloof of his own greatness as it is just a tool for him to utilize. 'My name is Rogal Dorn, Commander of the Phalanx, lord of the 7th legion, loyal servant to the one True Emperor, son to a murdered farther, brother to a pack of traitors, and I will have my vengeance, in this life..........or the next' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 And like Russell Crowe he has a very violent temperament. I've only seen dorn in horus rising and he was really cool their in my opinion. He rim ends of a father like figure stoic but caring on his own way. Someone wrote and entire essay on dorn once in the best legion thread. It was really good he compared him I think to a father or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relict Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 One of the reasons I look forward to the day BL writes about the Iron Cage Incident as it actually happened, with both IF and IW perspectives. The blurb in the IF section of Extermination, the one examining the relationship between Rogal Dorn and Perturabo, struck me as a very brilliant piece of writing. The two Primarchs WERE very similar in terms of personality. What made them so different (and led to them hating each other with so much animosity) was attitude. Dorn knew what kind of being he was. He knew the terrible damage he could cause should he let unthinking rage get the best of him. Thus the stoney personality - it was his way to control his inner demons. Contrast with Perturabo, who suppressed his jealousy and rage for much of the Great Crusade, eventually letting it fester and rot into something far worse. I think of Dorn as being quite similar to Clint Eastwood's character in Unforgiven. Stoic, logical, and difficult to provoke. However, when something does provoke him, all hell breaks loose. Perturabo was the same way, except his "breaking point" came sooner because he had his tolerance wore down bit by bit (the Emperor's blatant favoritism, the IW being saddled with the most grueling tasks, over and over and over). By the time Olympia rose up in rebellion, his BS meter just about burst and he went off the deep end. As for the most boring Primarch and Legion... I nominate Ferrus Manus for the former and the Salamanders for the latter. The former received very little characterization before being made a head shorter by the lord of the purple perverts (a shame - Ferrus had so much potential). The latter were annihilated on the fields of Isstvan V before they got the same coverage as the more fleshed out Legions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Ferrus had more personality in death (no, not that rubbish in Vulkan lives), by his desires for his legion being completely misconstrued, and them turning into the legion he was trying to prevent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relict Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Exactly. I wish he had remained alive long enough for us to see that personality more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristander Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 And like Russell Crowe he has a very violent temperament. I've only seen dorn in horus rising and he was really cool their in my opinion. He rim ends of a father like figure stoic but caring on his own way. Someone wrote and entire essay on dorn once in the best legion thread. It was really good he compared him I think to a father or something. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285367-my-thoughts-on-dorn/ Fantastic read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdemayo Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Dorn's got a considerable amount of complexity to him. He is also a politician, ruler, and spymaster. Back on Inwit, he ran a small empire. For most of the Heresy, he's effectively co-regent with Malcador. Most of his duties there probably involve extensive interaction with non-Astartes. Each of the Primarchs express a different facet of humanity. Dorn (like Guilliman,Sanguinius,Vulkan and Magnus) seems one of the "humanists" of the Imperium, who believe in the building of institutions, culture, and positive government as a way to assist citizens and develop its culture, and who largely regard war as a means to that end, rather than as an avenue to personal glory, power, or competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I think of Dorn as being quite similar to Clint Eastwood's character in Unforgiven. Stoic, logical, and difficult to provoke. However, when something does provoke him, all hell breaks loose. Perturabo was the same way, except his "breaking point" came sooner because he had his tolerance wore down bit by bit (the Emperor's blatant favoritism, the IW being saddled with the most grueling tasks, over and over and over). By the time Olympia rose up in rebellion, his BS meter just about burst and he went off the deep end. At least for me Olympia's rebellion is one the weakest parts of that legion's story. These guys have committed mass genocide across countless planets for a century or more. Bombing their home planet triggering them? There needs to be a lot more to it than that. There's always been other more compelling things- the Tyrant (Perturabo's adopted father), the conspiracy to keep the IV out of records, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uprising Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I think of Dorn as being quite similar to Clint Eastwood's character in Unforgiven. Stoic, logical, and difficult to provoke. However, when something does provoke him, all hell breaks loose. Perturabo was the same way, except his "breaking point" came sooner because he had his tolerance wore down bit by bit (the Emperor's blatant favoritism, the IW being saddled with the most grueling tasks, over and over and over). By the time Olympia rose up in rebellion, his BS meter just about burst and he went off the deep end. At least for me Olympia's rebellion is one the weakest parts of that legion's story. These guys have committed mass genocide across countless planets for a century or more. Bombing their home planet triggering them? There needs to be a lot more to it than that. There's always been other more compelling things- the Tyrant (Perturabo's adopted father), the conspiracy to keep the IV out of records, etc. I think what push him over the edge was the shame. ATM he was the only primarch to have his home world rebel, just another mark that was enough to break him. Most boring primarch: Fulgrim Most boring legion: Emperor children Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 all primarchs are = in character to zeus, all have unlimited power just struggling with knowing it how to use it as 'mortals' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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