3000 pt. Salamanders

[Kingofmottinos]

Hi! What do you think about this?

Cassian Dracos 275

Contemptor Talon + laser + chainfist + heavy flamer 220

Contemptor Talon + 2 close combat + 2 heavy flamers 195

Contemptor mortis + 2 kheres 180

Contemptor mortis + 2 kheres 180

Rhino 35

10 support squad + melta 180

Rhino 35

10 tactical marines + 1 combat blade 152

Vindicator 120

15 tactical marines + fist + 14 combat blade 243

Spartan + twin-linked heavy flamer + ceramite + flare + multi melta 360

10 pyroclasts + fist 275

Praetor + mantle + shield + halo + mc fist + digital lasers 190 (row: covenant of fire)

Spartan + twin-linked heavy flamer + ceramite + flare + mulimelta 360

3000pt.

[LolSkalatrax]

a bit of my IMHO

1. 10 supports with meltas is kind of a big target, while meltas itself not useful in 30K where most of vehicles have ceramite, swap for plasmas. or if u play against 40k 5 man squad enough.

2. 15 tactical, who isn't world eaters even close isn't a threat to ride in spartan =)

u can go like pyroclasts and firedrakes in 2 spartans, by dropping 5 supports and smith else u can get another tac squad, naked for home scoring.

3. against 40k for praetor Hammer can be useful to bring down smth like Eldar Eva in 2 turns by having concussive.

4. one of mortis for just 5pts u can give twin las cannons, or swap for deredeo. one kheres mortis is more then enough.

5. lone vindicator is just easy to kill/avoid. if it's not necessary better drop it.

[infyrana]

You might need to check the rules for the squads.

 

The upgrades for the Legion Tactical Squad and the Legion Tactical Support Squad's require you to do an all or nothing.  In the case of the Tact Supp with melta, all the marines with flamers (not the sergeant) need to exchange their flamer for a meltagun, not just one model.  In the case of the Legion Tacticals, the 'entire' squad (all models) must take the additional CCW, so that's points for every marine.

 

It begins to make sense once you see other peoples lists or read it again and again.

 

 

*edit for minor niggle in what I wrote*

[Kingofmottinos]

Melta is melta bombs, not melta gun, I wasn't very clear about it, you're right XD I equipped the support with flamers, so I can use the +1 S bonus effectively and trust me, 10 flamers like that are awesome :) you're right about the 15 tacs, my initial project was 20 tacs but I couldn't find the points to bring them in the list... However since you made me think about dropping the vindicator, I could actually drop it and buy the additional CCW for every model (thanks for reminding me about that too), turn the 15 tacs squad into a 20 one (with additional CCW) with an apothecary. Also, you're right about the two kheres, they're a little excessive XD I thought about the two lasers to deal with air support, but I saw that I already had a total of 9 lasers and I decided to put another kheres dreadnought... However having 2 lasers AB5 with sky fire and interceptor is really good, so I'll think about it. Also, if by dropping the vindicator I still have some points left after all the changes I described above, I could swap the fist for a hammer, useful against paragon blades (I always play 30k, fortunately I don't have to worry about eldar's trickery XD). I don't think I'll have enough points to buy another pyroclasts squad or firedrakes :S

[Hesh Kadesh]

melta is not bad. People are beginning to shy away from Melta on all but the Heaviest tanks. Melta is coming back at higher tiers because of the fact that Armoured Ceramite is such a drain, and that in reality, the melta meta can still pop AV12 side and rear really easily, melta rule or no (Orbital Strike, Alpha Legion, Raven Guard, Night Lords and Sons of Horus all getting decent access to Deep Striking Melta) gets to vulnerable rears) means that unless it is a vehicle you need to stay alive and it is a comparatively small, one off payment, like on a Super Heavy, or against a Land Raider/Spartan other AV14 equivalent people aren't paying for it. They are perfect anti terminator and other elite troops insistent on running with Primus Medicae or Apothecaries. Sans Iron Hands, S8 AP1 is instagib territory, and a 33-50% chance is not really enjoyable when you've been used to nearer 50-67% against such.

 

That said, Pyroclasts. They suck. Melta is strong because it is still a 12" range S8 AP1 weapon. Pyroclasts are expensive Flamer support squads who can take a charge from Power Swords. Even against non Armoured Ceramite, that 3" melta range is ridiculous.

 

Only worry is this the list may get a bit stale to play. 2 Static Dreads, 3 walking dreads, and then just move forward. There isn't much to do. I'm getting a little annoyed with Spartans locally; they are capable vehicles, certainly, but they take up so many points that you are forced to make them worthwile, so much so that even at 3k you are forced into eggs in one basket syndrome. Which I find not only kinda boring to play, but makescyou lose when somebody comes up with a bigger, better box of eggs that only last until people are bringing Vulkan and Firedrakes, Fulgrim and Palatines, Horus and whatever else feels like watching the fun, or Curze/Corax and the Night Raptors/Dark Fury squads.

 

Those are the ultimate units, and completely uncompetitive in that people can actually relatively easily take them out of a game, so people don't take them until the meta evolves so much that people start taking Primarchs again. This is why I'm not a fan of the Leonidas train as we call it locally. 3 Spartans are not fun to play w ith or against, continually, really, and is a gimmick. "What's that, you can't fire 18 Graviton Shots in 1 turn? Sucks to be you" isn't nice.

 

It is like Imperial Knight Lists in 40k. People don't like having 1000 pts of their armies firepower invalidated, so they respond by making it unfun for knights to play, loading up on as much AT so that Knights dropped out of the top tables in all but multiple CAD armies.

[Kingofmottinos]

melta is not bad. People are beginning to shy away from Melta on all but the Heaviest tanks. Melta is coming back at higher tiers because of the fact that Armoured Ceramite is such a drain, and that in reality, the melta meta can still pop AV12 side and rear really easily, melta rule or no (Orbital Strike, Alpha Legion, Raven Guard, Night Lords and Sons of Horus all getting decent access to Deep Striking Melta) gets to vulnerable rears) means that unless it is a vehicle you need to stay alive and it is a comparatively small, one off payment, like on a Super Heavy, or against a Land Raider/Spartan other AV14 equivalent people aren't paying for it. They are perfect anti terminator and other elite troops insistent on running with Primus Medicae or Apothecaries. Sans Iron Hands, S8 AP1 is instagib territory, and a 33-50% chance is not really enjoyable when you've been used to nearer 50-67% against such.

That said, Pyroclasts. They suck. Melta is strong because it is still a 12" range S8 AP1 weapon. Pyroclasts are expensive Flamer support squads who can take a charge from Power Swords. Even against non Armoured Ceramite, that 3" melta range is ridiculous.

Only worry is this the list may get a bit stale to play. 2 Static Dreads, 3 walking dreads, and then just move forward. There isn't much to do. I'm getting a little annoyed with Spartans locally; they are capable vehicles, certainly, but they take up so many points that you are forced to make them worthwile, so much so that even at 3k you are forced into eggs in one basket syndrome. Which I find not only kinda boring to play, but makescyou lose when somebody comes up with a bigger, better box of eggs that only last until people are bringing Vulkan and Firedrakes, Fulgrim and Palatines, Horus and whatever else feels like watching the fun, or Curze/Corax and the Night Raptors/Dark Fury squads.

Those are the ultimate units, and completely uncompetitive in that people can actually relatively easily take them out of a game, so people don't take them until the meta evolves so much that people start taking Primarchs again. This is why I'm not a fan of the Leonidas train as we call it locally. 3 Spartans are not fun to play w ith or against, continually, really, and is a gimmick. "What's that, you can't fire 18 Graviton Shots in 1 turn? Sucks to be you" isn't nice.

It is like Imperial Knight Lists in 40k. People don't like having 1000 pts of their armies firepower invalidated, so they respond by making it unfun for knights to play, loading up on as much AT so that Knights dropped out of the top tables in all but multiple CAD armies.

I understand what you're saying and in fact I don't have only this list but I have other models to use (firedrakes or a medusa for instance) so I can make very different lists and have "a different type of fun". However, I find it difficult to play Salamanders in a completely different style from "push forward"... There are a lot of armies more versatile and I think that Salamanders are simply not part of them. The spartans, in my humble opionion, are the "standard" transport for salamanders in order to play them effectively: you could buy a ton of rhinos and fill them with flamers but rhinos can be destroyed by anything, you could buy a flyer or drop pods but the rite of war doesn't encourage you to use them (in some cases you actually can't use them), so the only transport left is the spartan. And footslogging marines are a good only if there's one big squad, or if you inflitrate or use jump packs or something like that. I know that two spartan can be a little boring to play, so I brought some "new toys" bringing a lot of dreadnoughts, that is pretty uncommon in my experience (which is pretty limited however) and I find very fun to play. Also, it is very satisfying trying to bypass enemy defences and flame everyone. I also know that pyroclasts are too expensive for what they can do, but I really love the models and I'm bringing them in order to make the list fluffy (I play with friends and no one cares more about being competitive than having a nice army to look at and having fun playing according to the background). I think I could have some fun with this list... for example look at this battle report that inspired me to make this list: http://heresy30k.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/2066-massacre-campaign-game-3/

I think that battle was really entertaining