Bad reads that you just gave up on...

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Anything by Abnett Yes I know it makes me a Pariah

I dont want to challenge what was an asked for opinion, but this one begs the question: why?

WLK

My dislike for his writing goes back to 2000AD...

I dislike his portrayal of Guilliman in Unremembered Empire. This is my most resent encounter and don't get me started on Know No Fear...

I just don't like his style and when I say this to 40K Fans their usual defence is you have not read Gaunts Ghosts (I have and did not like them.)

It makes me laugh when people criticise McNeil when Abnett is just as bad. (NO I am not defending McNeil either)

And the icing on the cake?... Ultramarines the Movie... What a turd that was.

Okay,just curious.

WLK

[ShadowMaster]

Anything by Abnett Yes I know it makes me a Pariah

I dont want to challenge what was an asked for opinion, but this one begs the question: why?

WLK

My dislike for his writing goes back to 2000AD...

I dislike his portrayal of Guilliman in Unremembered Empire. This is my most resent encounter and don't get me started on Know No Fear...

I just don't like his style and when I say this to 40K Fans their usual defence is you have not read Gaunts Ghosts (I have and did not like them.)

It makes me laugh when people criticise McNeil when Abnett is just as bad. (NO I am not defending McNeil either)

And the icing on the cake?... Ultramarines the Movie... What a turd that was.

Did you try to read Eisenhorn and Ravenor? Those are some of the few "masterpieces" we have available. I've read almost everything put out by Black Library but sadly only a few pieces have been really good.

Horus Rising, Eisenhorn and Ravenor are good Abnett books. The rest are pretty weak and the Ultramarines movie is the worst piece of 40K ever produced, every thing about it is beyond the realm of ridiculous.

There are some ADB titles I really like and some of Cris Wraight's stuff too. Those are the two best BL authors in my book. I like Abnett as long as he isn't writing too much about Astartes. McNeill also got some good stuff, I remember enjoying thousand sons. The 40K lore is tough to handle. I can't hate on any of our authors, I'm grateful for the job they do. Even though I get a bit off-topic i have to mention that it's really sad how the lore is handled by GW, I mean all these short stories, limited editions and the lack of a book release schedule really frustrates me. And all these horrible re-releases the constantly shove down our throat. Yuck.

[Guest]

Anything by Abnett Yes I know it makes me a Pariah

I dont want to challenge what was an asked for opinion, but this one begs the question: why?

WLK

My dislike for his writing goes back to 2000AD...

I dislike his portrayal of Guilliman in Unremembered Empire. This is my most resent encounter and don't get me started on Know No Fear...

I just don't like his style and when I say this to 40K Fans their usual defence is you have not read Gaunts Ghosts (I have and did not like them.)

It makes me laugh when people criticise McNeil when Abnett is just as bad. (NO I am not defending McNeil either)

And the icing on the cake?... Ultramarines the Movie... What a turd that was.

Did you try to read Eisenhorn and Ravenor? Those are some of the few "masterpieces" we have available. I've read almost everything put out by Black Library but sadly only a few pieces have been really good.

Horus Rising, Eisenhorn and Ravenor are good Abnett books. The rest are pretty weak and the Ultramarines movie is the worst piece of 40K ever produced, every thing about it is beyond the realm of ridiculous.

There are some ADB titles I really like and some of Cris Wraight's stuff too. Those are the two best BL authors in my book. I like Abnett as long as he isn't writing too much about Astartes. McNeill also got some good stuff, I remember enjoying thousand sons. The 40K lore is tough to handle. I can't hate on any of our authors, I'm grateful for the job they do. Even though I get a bit off-topic i have to mention that it's really sad how the lore is handled by GW, I mean all these short stories, limited editions and the lack of a book release schedule really frustrates me. And all these horrible re-releases the constantly shove down our throat. Yuck.

I have read Horus Rising and I did like it, in amongst the bad there was a good one :)... I have not tried Eisenhorn or Ravenor I doubt I will, After Know No Fear and Unremembered Empire I will avoid his books even more now I pray he does not write the Battle at the Emperors Palace or the conflict between Horus and the Emperor on the Vengeful Spirit. My issue is people hold him up as some Black Library God and he simply is not.

I will admit I am a fan of ADB I don't think there is a book of his I did not like. Not read any of Chris Wraights stuff so I can't comment. I liked Storm of Iron, and the first few Ultramarine novels until they got very silly.. 2 Marines 1 Daemon World they should have died there.

[1ncarnadine]

I have read Horus Rising and I did like it, in amongst the bad there was a good one ... I have not tried Eisenhorn or Ravenor I doubt I will, After Know No Fear and Unremembered Empire I will avoid his books even more now I pray he does not write the Battle at the Emperors Palace or the conflict between Horus and the Emperor on the Vengeful Spirit. My issue is people hold him up as some Black Library God and he simply is not.

I will admit I am a fan of ADB I don't think there is a book of his I did not like. Not read any of Chris Wraights stuff so I can't comment. I liked Storm of Iron, and the first few Ultramarine novels until they got very silly.. 2 Marines 1 Daemon World they should have died there.

I'll chime in and add that you probably should give the Eisenhorn trilogy a shot at least, it's definitely some of the better writing that's ever been put out by the BL. Edit: I missed that you'd read a good part of the Ghosts books and didn't enjoy them, you really might not like the Inquisitor stuff then :(

As for what I couldn't get through... hmmm. Battle for the Abyss, for sure. Also Prospero Burns and Fallen Angels. I feel like the latter is just straight up bad writing, but Prospero Burns could be written by any number of famous authors and I still wouldn't be able to make myself care about the Space Wolves I remember losing interest in the hobby pretty severely around this point ("The First Heretic? How could you make the Word Bearers sympathetic? They're like the worst legion ever. And it's some new author, whatever") and it took 5 years and a good friend to bring me back. Welp, some things sure changed. I've been thinking about taking a second look at Prospero Burns lately and since I've just graduated I might finally find the time....

[Adeptus]

 

 

you probably should give the Eisenhorn trilogy a shot at least, it's definitely some of the better writing that's ever been put out by the BL.

 

If he's not an Abnett fan, he's not going to like Eisenhorn. Frankly, I found Eisenhorn to be pretty tedious and the story arcs pretty bland, and very much set in the Abnett-verse as opposed to the 40K universe.

[1ncarnadine]

 

you probably should give the Eisenhorn trilogy a shot at least, it's definitely some of the better writing that's ever been put out by the BL.

 

If he's not an Abnett fan, he's not going to like Eisenhorn. Frankly, I found Eisenhorn to be pretty tedious and the story arcs pretty bland, and very much set in the Abnett-verse as opposed to the 40K universe.

 

 

You're probably right, I'll be the first to admit I'm pretty heavily biased. To me the "Abnettverse" is the 40k universe that I fell in love with, and a lot of other stories seem out of place compared to that. Or I guess for me it's hard to say there is one area of 40k writing that "isn't really 40k." Just good writing and bad writing? Maybe we need a "baseline" thread some time: "What novels epitomise the 40k universe to you?" or something like that

[Lord Ragnarok]

Gildar Rift for me. Still have not finished it. I've finished all other 30k/40k books I've started but not that one. 

[Adeptus]

 

 

you probably should give the Eisenhorn trilogy a shot at least, it's definitely some of the better writing that's ever been put out by the BL.

 

If he's not an Abnett fan, he's not going to like Eisenhorn. Frankly, I found Eisenhorn to be pretty tedious and the story arcs pretty bland, and very much set in the Abnett-verse as opposed to the 40K universe.

 

 

You're probably right, I'll be the first to admit I'm pretty heavily biased. To me the "Abnettverse" is the 40k universe that I fell in love with, and a lot of other stories seem out of place compared to that. Or I guess for me it's hard to say there is one area of 40k writing that "isn't really 40k." Just good writing and bad writing? Maybe we need a "baseline" thread some time: "What novels epitomise the 40k universe to you?" or something like that

 

 

That's not a bad idea :)

[Carach]

fear to tread i finished but i really dont know why.

 

it started really well, the foreboding stuff was good. and then landfall - rest of the book a complete waste of time with just boring, repetitive descriptions of bolter porn and anger with seemingly a retcon and bumbling daemons acting like a married couple.

 

Vulkan Lives as well i really struggled to get through. Again just the same thing over and over and over again with no development.

 

some have mentioned descent of angels but im not sure why? i havent re-read them to be fair but i liked them at the time.

 

battle for the abyss had some absurd villains but wasn't *too* bad otherwise. Like, it wasnt great, but it wasnt terrible imo. just a bit of a space filler.

 

---

 

edit: whats with the abnett hate? eisenhorn/ravenor are awesome books. Know no fear is one of the best of the HH series. Unremembered Empire wasn't the best but i think it was held back by the Vulkan lives story-arc and it generally being more of a hinge storyline-wise than the meat but it still had some good snippets within

[Guest]

 

 

edit: whats with the abnett hate? eisenhorn/ravenor are awesome books. Know no fear is one of the best of the HH series. Unremembered Empire wasn't the best but i think it was held back by the Vulkan lives story-arc and it generally being more of a hinge storyline-wise than the meat but it still had some good snippets within

 

I gave my reasons :), its not hate I just don't think he is as good a writer as some 40k fans make him out to be. Know No Fear my dislike for that was the moustache twirling Kor Phaeron.

 

It does seem its not the done thing to dislike Abnett. 

[Conn Eremon]

Everyone has their own interests and dislikes, and while majority's can be reached, not everyone will, or should, share the same exact subjective opinion.

 

The only thing I think is objectively wrong is the notion that the Abnettverse, or any other authorverse, does not equal the 40kverse. What people usually mean by that is that they either dislike the author's work, or that it conflicted too much with their own personal headcanon. That's not a bad thing, I do it myself for some authors, but call it for what it is.

[Daddywarcrimes]

 

I made it through Deliverance Lost...and the next day I took it to a second hand book store and traded it in. Will I read any more of Gav's Raven Guard Heresy stuff?

 

"Nevermore."

 

Tell me about it. 

 

The first book that focuses on my Legion and it get's Gav.

 

then he continues to write their novellas.  

 

It sucks when you get to the point you want your Legion to go back to being ignored.

 

WLK

 

 

Welcome to Blood Angel life.

[Chaeron]

I'm still proud to have never given up on a read from any author of Black Libary - some have admittedly taken longer than others to get through, but I have generally ploughed on a persevered so at least I can say that I've finished it... Typically, it's more for Chapters I have little interest in, rather than it being directly correlated to author or writing style.

Everyone has their own interests and dislikes, and while majority's can be reached, not everyone will, or should, share the same exact subjective opinion.

The only thing I think is objectively wrong is the notion that the Abnettverse, or any other authorverse, does not equal the 40kverse. What people usually mean by that is that they either dislike the author's work, or that it conflicted too much with their own personal headcanon. That's not a bad thing, I do it myself for some authors, but call it for what it is.

 

I think this is very important within the context of the thread, too!

[Urauloth]

My immediate thought on seeing the title was "Ben Counter: The Thread" and sure enough, it's filled with Battle for the Abyss. I actually finished that, but I don't really recommend anyone else do the same (or start it to begin with, honestly)

 

I've been crawling through Malodrax for a while, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to part with it unfinished. I just can't do it, it's defeated me.  I got suckered in because I kind of liked Seventh Retribution and Malodrax started pretty well with spaceships. I need to stop letting this happen, I've read way too many of this guy's books and I don't particularly enjoy them.

 

The Word Bearers Omnibus

First I love Chaos Marines. I've loved every book I have read about them, and wanted to love this one too. I ordered it online when I was living in a country with rather strict customs only to get a note from the postmaster saying it had been seized. The book didn't violate any laws, but the cover art probably scared the custom agent. No worries I tried again and the second time it went through. So after about 2 months of anticipation I got the book and only read 2-3 chapters before I put it down disinterested. Even after patiently waiting I just couldn't get into it. I haven't had this problem with other books by the author either. Is it worth a second chance?

No.

 

Imo, anyway. I can't stand that thing. It's up there with Battle for the Abyss when it comes to "depictions of Word Bearers I don't like". Then again, some people are really into it. Ymmv, as with all Black Library stuff except the works of CS Goto which are objectively the literary antithesis of entertainment subjectivity, and so on.

 

Nobody seems to like Death of Antagonis, but I do - it's absolutely preposterous, but it seems to just accept that and keep ramping it up to new levels. It hits that so-bad-it's-good mark for me, I guess. I really like Annendale as a writer, too, when he's not miscalculating things, so that probably helps.

[Carach]

edit: whats with the abnett hate? eisenhorn/ravenor are awesome books. Know no fear is one of the best of the HH series. Unremembered Empire wasn't the best but i think it was held back by the Vulkan lives story-arc and it generally being more of a hinge storyline-wise than the meat but it still had some good snippets within

I gave my reasons , its not hate I just don't think he is as good a writer as some 40k fans make him out to be. Know No Fear my dislike for that was the moustache twirling Kor Phaeron.

It does seem its not the done thing to dislike Abnett.

the portrayal of kor phaeron in know no fear was hardly out of keeping with previous writings of him. Unlike battle of the abyss where the word bearers are all super evil 40k style bad guys that hate each other as much as they hate the imperium. Now that was moustache twirling.

[Sothalor]

On a meta level, am I allowed to say the "Read It Because" descriptions on the BL site?

 

Cause... holy moly, some of those are atrocious.

[Conn Eremon]

Honestly, I've never once took them at face value. Read it because you're willing to experience it. Not because you like Legion X, for reasons Y. Read it because you want to see if it is good. If the author can deliver. And again, subjective opinions are subjective.

 

But seriously. The synopsis is not written by the author, and does not truly convey what it will contain. Read it because you want to see if it is good. Period. It might not succeed your expectations (like Battle for the Fang and Scars . . . hello, new McNeil), but you won't really know from that summary.

[aa.logan]

The Word Bearers Omnibus

 

Is it worth a second chance?

 

 

The first book is one of my favourite things that BL have published- really good depiction of Chaos. I can take or leave the rest of it, but strongly recommend you power through to the end of Dark Apostle.

[Adeptus]

edit: whats with the abnett hate? eisenhorn/ravenor are awesome books. Know no fear is one of the best of the HH series. Unremembered Empire wasn't the best but i think it was held back by the Vulkan lives story-arc and it generally being more of a hinge storyline-wise than the meat but it still had some good snippets within

 

Well, the thing with Eisenhorn is that it's just a mediocre detective story set in a universe that is similar, but subtly different from the 40K one. Now, I know it was written at a time when the 40K lore was less stringently controlled so authors were able to put their own spin on the 40K universe, but Eisenhorn read to me, like fan fiction. Not terrible fan fiction, but not great stuff either. Like it was written by someone who didn't quite get 40K, or just wanted his stuff to be a bit different. Now, I'm not about to go back and review a book that I didn't like so I can better debate it on the internet, and it was some time since I read it, but the impression it left was strong enough that I've largely avoided his books since.

 

Having said that, I recently picked up Titanicus and intend to read it, because my love of giant mechanical gods of war is stronger than my dislike of Abnett, so we'll see if my opinion changes after that!

[callmeMrBadger]

Conn Eremon - did you ever finish Emperors Gift?

 

I won the book and started reading it and yawned most of my way through the first half all the Grey Knight talk, then it took a turn for the better when it became the First War for Armageddon fallout, but I'm a fan of Space Wolves.

 

It never explained, and would love to know how it happens, that you get a Fenrisian Inquisitor? who also knows enough about the famous Bjorn to recognise him. Fenrisians live as primitives on Fenris with practically no interaction, to take one of these and make them an Inquisitor? why?

 

As for books I've given up on. Iron Guard by Mark Clapman, again I was hoping for average life in Hive, and after the first couple of chapters when they left Mordia became just a haunted house in space.

 

Eisenhorn and Ravenor perhaps the best examples of how the normal life in 40K works, of the pair Ravenor shows more detailed life on a couple worlds, Eisenhorn is more a fight against Chaos cults which is out of the ordinary.

[Bulwyf]

Whatever the Anthony Reynolds, I think that's the author, book was about the Word Bearers. I tried twice to read it and couldn't get past thirty percent on my kindle. It is the only BL book I have never completely read that I have purchased and I have most of them.

[VikingWarband]

Being new to the 40k universe, I've taken most of the books at face-value since I'm really just trying to learn and understand, rather than critique (I'm digging for information, not considering how it's delivered). 

 

Only if something is exceptionally good or bad will I notice.

 

An example of exceptionally good would be  A D-B's Night Lord's omnibus. The opening short story hooked me instantly with his style and never let go.

 

An example of exceptionally bad would be Simon Spurrier's Lord of the Night. It could be the fact that I read this after the NL omnibus and the style differences threw me off, but having to witness each character go through an existential crisis every. single. chapter. got old really quick.

 

 

Anything nick kyme writes...

Oh no!! And I just bought the Salamanders omnibus...

[Carrack]

 

Being new to the 40k universe, I've taken most of the books at face-value since I'm really just trying to learn and understand, rather than critique (I'm digging for information, not considering how it's delivered).

 

Only if something is exceptionally good or bad will I notice.

 

An example of exceptionally good would be A D-B's Night Lord's omnibus. The opening short story hooked me instantly with his style and never let go.

 

An example of exceptionally bad would be Simon Spurrier's Lord of the Night. It could be the fact that I read this after the NL omnibus and the style differences threw me off, but having to witness each character go through an existential crisis every. single. chapter. got old really quick.

 

 

that's too bad, I read Lord of the Night first, and enjoyed both books. Maybe you can "clean your pallet" with a few other books before giving it another try.

[Deus Imperator Vult]

Anything where the Alpha Legion show up as super-stealth-infiltrator- ultimate-infiltrators-that-nobody-can-detect-ever-cause-their-just-that-good. It started with Deliverance Lost which I forced myself through with gritted teeth as it basically turned Corax into a clueless infant. But since then so many books that aren't about the AL I turn onto a new chapter and the first line is 'Alpharius waited, ready to kill everyone, but nobody saw him.' and it just drags me right out of the book. Yes, I get it they're stealthy and yes I know fans of theirs are happy they're now getting fleshed out thats great BUT THEY DON'T NEED TO BE IN EVERY BOOK! Apologies for the rant.

 

But yes Deliverance Lost is one. Enough has been said about Battle for the Abyss so I won't even bother. Outcast Dead was just awful... if it had been a short story perhaps it would have been good but the premise was just too stretched for a whole novel. Also it has a World Eater punching through armourplate if that wasn't the grimdark equilivent of jumping the shark I don't know what is.

 

The Space Marine battles book about the Silver Skulls... the Geldar Rift I think I really didn't enjoy. Mostly because the loyalists were just eyepieces for us to see how tough the Red Corsairs are. Which would be fine if I had bought a Red Corsair book but I hadn't.

 

Lastly the audio adaption of Horus Rising I know they're not for everyone but personally I love GW's audio books and some of them are so perfect. The voice actors who have done World Eaters in particular have been great. The guy they have reading Horus Rising while I'm sure is very talented just doesn't get the characters right; little horus sounds like a girl, Cruze sounds scottish, and Lucius sounds like a 4yr old. (I know some people will argue that's in line with how he's been portrayed in the heresy but still it broke my emersion.)

[Carlson793]

Legion of the Damned by Rob Sanders. Dear gods! So much 'exposition as dialogue' between people who each should know the information being exposed - keep it out of dialogue unless Character B has no prior knowledge of what Character A is talking about! So many scenes of 'greet the other character with their full name'... as well as better than half the time when you're not greeting them!

 

Didn't make it through the first 100 pages.