Bad reads that you just gave up on...

[Volt]

Legion of the Damned by Rob Sanders. Dear gods! So much 'exposition as dialogue' between people who each should know the information being exposed - keep it out of dialogue unless Character B has no prior knowledge of what Character A is talking about! So many scenes of 'greet the other character with their full name'... as well as better than half the time when you're not greeting them!

 

Didn't make it through the first 100 pages.

How's dialogue bad? If anything Sanders should be lauded for writing a 40k book that does not consist entirely of bolter porn and utter :cussy, managing to write something for the Black Library that largely just consists of people talking. Ever closer to the time when we'll finally get a 40K book with zero bolter porn and simply character interaction over daily events.

[Deus Imperator Vult]

 

Legion of the Damned by Rob Sanders. Dear gods! So much 'exposition as dialogue' between people who each should know the information being exposed - keep it out of dialogue unless Character B has no prior knowledge of what Character A is talking about! So many scenes of 'greet the other character with their full name'... as well as better than half the time when you're not greeting them!

 

Didn't make it through the first 100 pages.

How's dialogue bad? If anything Sanders should be lauded for writing a 40k book that does not consist entirely of bolter porn and utter :cussy, managing to write something for the Black Library that largely just consists of people talking. Ever closer to the time when we'll finally get a 40K book with zero bolter porn and simply character interaction over daily events.

 

I know what he means. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed Legion I thought it had some brilliant imagry esecially in the conclusion. But there were moments where he was spoon fed you exposition through dialogue. For example; one character explaining to another every little detail of the Feast of Blades rather than assume the reader and the astartes would have some fore knowledge. Yes I know that helps us know exactly whats going on BUT the implication is that an Imperial Fists sucessor chapter doesn't know what the celebration is which breaks emersion as they're hardly a secret.

[Carlson793]

I know what he means. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed Legion I thought it had some brilliant imagry esecially in the conclusion. But there were moments where he was spoon fed you exposition through dialogue. For example; one character explaining to another every little detail of the Feast of Blades rather than assume the reader and the astartes would have some fore knowledge. Yes I know that helps us know exactly whats going on BUT the implication is that an Imperial Fists sucessor chapter doesn't know what the celebration is which breaks emersion as they're hardly a secret.

 

 

@ Volt: This. Many of the conversations between characters involved Character A telling Character B something (which should be) already known by both. Yes, it's good to share that information with the reader so they are aware of what is happening, but it should be the author sharing it with the reader, not a character sharing it with another character unless that second character also is not in the know (which was not the case). Legion of the Damned reads like a poorly written opera or Greek play.

[Deus Imperator Vult]

 

I know what he means. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed Legion I thought it had some brilliant imagry esecially in the conclusion. But there were moments where he was spoon fed you exposition through dialogue. For example; one character explaining to another every little detail of the Feast of Blades rather than assume the reader and the astartes would have some fore knowledge. Yes I know that helps us know exactly whats going on BUT the implication is that an Imperial Fists sucessor chapter doesn't know what the celebration is which breaks emersion as they're hardly a secret.

 

 

@ Volt: This. Many of the conversations between characters involved Character A telling Character B something (which should be) already known by both. Yes, it's good to share that information with the reader so they are aware of what is happening, but it should be the author sharing it with the reader, not a character sharing it with another character unless that second character also is not in the know (which was not the case). Legion of the Damned reads like a poorly written opera or Greek play.

 

My creative writing lecturer used to describe it as the difference between showing and telling. The example that comes to mind in Legion of the Damned is we were told people hated the main character for loosing that banner over and over. A simple scene where his brothers refused to meet his eye and an inner monologue like 'of course they don't want to look at me' would have worked better. But personally I'd say its far from the worst SM Battles book I've read.

[Volt]

 

 

I know what he means. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed Legion I thought it had some brilliant imagry esecially in the conclusion. But there were moments where he was spoon fed you exposition through dialogue. For example; one character explaining to another every little detail of the Feast of Blades rather than assume the reader and the astartes would have some fore knowledge. Yes I know that helps us know exactly whats going on BUT the implication is that an Imperial Fists sucessor chapter doesn't know what the celebration is which breaks emersion as they're hardly a secret.

 

 

@ Volt: This. Many of the conversations between characters involved Character A telling Character B something (which should be) already known by both. Yes, it's good to share that information with the reader so they are aware of what is happening, but it should be the author sharing it with the reader, not a character sharing it with another character unless that second character also is not in the know (which was not the case). Legion of the Damned reads like a poorly written opera or Greek play.

 

My creative writing lecturer used to describe it as the difference between showing and telling. The example that comes to mind in Legion of the Damned is we were told people hated the main character for loosing that banner over and over. A simple scene where his brothers refused to meet his eye and an inner monologue like 'of course they don't want to look at me' would have worked better. But personally I'd say its far from the worst SM Battles book I've read.

 

Yeah, there's far "better" titles to get that award. Anything by Ben Counter should take the cake, I can't stand his method of writing. He is the only author I've encountered that has managed to make the idea of Space Marines boring. I remember reading his first work, Twelve Wolves, in one those Space Marine Omnibuses, and all it did was succeed in making me hate both the Space Wolves and Counter himself. I also now gag whenever I read the word wolf more then once in a sentence.

 

Even though it was a short story, I don't know why I finished Twelve Wolves.

[Deus Imperator Vult]

I will say A LOT of the old omnibusses have issues, possible just because GW was less strict with authors back then. Graham McNeils Ultramarines for example I mean c'mon someone literally gets a necron prosthetic!

 

[Volt]

Well that's also McNeil. He's far from a quality author in the Black Library's roster, just look at the Mars trilogy, especially the final book where people suddenly regenerate arms thanks to author incompetency.

[TDF]

Well that's also McNeil. He's far from a quality author in the Black Library's roster, just look at the Mars trilogy, especially the final book where people suddenly regenerate arms thanks to author incompetency.

To be fair that's just as much editor incompetency.

 

I actually enjoyed Twelve Wolves. It's not the best BL short story I've ever read but I thought it was decent.

[Deus Imperator Vult]

 

Well that's also McNeil. He's far from a quality author in the Black Library's roster, just look at the Mars trilogy, especially the final book where people suddenly regenerate arms thanks to author incompetency.

To be fair that's just as much editor incompetency.

 

I actually enjoyed Twelve Wolves. It's not the best BL short story I've ever read but I thought it was decent.

 

I agree all the blame can't just be laid at the authors feet especially when you're dealing with a huge IP like this little facts here and there are bound to contradict I just have noticed more GLARING errors in his pieces.

[Gripharius]

I have finished every BL book or story that I have started... which I feel is a bit of an accomplishment.  The only one I ever actually had to put down and come back to after reading a few other books was Outcast Dead.  Awful.

 

And the exposition-as-dialogue thing really destroys emersion for me, too.  I remember reading that exact passage about the Feast of Blades and literally rolling my eyes at it. 

[Deus Imperator Vult]

I have finished every BL book or story that I have started... which I feel is a bit of an accomplishment.  The only one I ever actually had to put down and come back to after reading a few other books was Outcast Dead.  Awful.

 

And the exposition-as-dialogue thing really destroys emersion for me, too.  I remember reading that exact passage about the Feast of Blades and literally rolling my eyes at it. 

I know! Plus I really hate how everyone in the heresy that seems to meet Rogal Dorn ends up going 'What are you really afraid of' STOP UNMANNING MY PRIMARCH! I feel like the story could easily have been summed up in a novella...

 

 

 

*The Emperor knows he's probably going to die but it's the only way he can stop chaos.

*Thunder Warrior still alive- Angry- Maybe the Emperor isn't quite the nice guy we've been lead to believe

 

 

 

... That was all it needed.

 

Although I will say the scene with the World Eater and the little child was really good where he shows him the Lecticio Divinitatus and the Astartes is like 'Go away I'm afraid I might kill you.'

[Firepower]

Salamander was like pulling teeth.  I almost gave up on Know No Fear.  The present tense writing style really annoyed me, and Ultramarines are rather bland subjects to begin with.  But after sitting and gathering dust for a few months, I went back and tore through it.  In the end, it earned a solid 'meh' rank.

[Hyaenidae]

Unremembered Empire. I damn near fell over from boredom. Only the Word Bearer in the book kept me reading, the only interesting bit in the whole book.

[Stercus]

If I buy a book you better believe I'm going to finish it. That first Dark Angels (alleged) Horus heresy book was a close one though. It was several hundred pages of not much interesting happening, while flat characters talked unconvincingly about stuff that didn't seem relevant to a plot that was largely impenetrable. And also, it had pretty much snot all to do with the heresy that the series was supposed to be about.

Wasn't too happy with that book at all.

[Gorkimedes]

 I gave up on The Talon Of Horus      What, did someone say something?

[Reldn]

Fifteen Hours. That book drove me nuts! I think I got around halfway through it and just closed it. Never have tried to reread it.

[Lazarine]

Only book a I've given up on was Storm of Iron. First time I tried was after finishing the Word Bearers Omnibus, which was ok. Tried three times since then, but never made it past halfway.

[Hyaenidae]

You.... you only made it halfway.... through Storm of Iron.....

Ow. My heart.

[Kriegsmacht]

What drove you nuts in Fifteen Hours Reldn? I read through it rather quickly. If it's a fluff thing then that might be why since I'm not as knowledgeable about past fluff vs. current fluff.

For example I was surprised when I read a short story in Let the Galaxy Burns anthology(forgot the stories name) when a Templar mentioned heading back to HQ on Terra. Gotta love the changes that get made in the ongoing lore.

[Veteran Sergeant]

 

Death of Antagonis featured an atheist Sister of Battle carrying a Khornate daemonsword who turned a Company of Black Dragons into Warp Talons. Also, apparently "LOL, why not?" Is a perfectly valid reason for Space Marines and Inquisitors to fall to Tzeencht.

I feel I ought to read this book just to appreciate the awfulness.

 

This was among the many books I "tried and tossed", but yeah, now I kinda want to appreciate its full... glory.

[SickSix]

Just finished Damnation of Pythos. It was bad.

 

Somehow the author made space marines vs. dinosaurs really uninteresting. You just wanted to get through those parts to move onto the rest of the bad story.

[sitnam]

I didnt finish Danmation of Pythos because my Kindle broke, though I'm not sure I want to from the spoilers I got. why does every HH Iron Hands story got to end in tragedy? Why not one where they wreck face? i'd love to see one dealing with the post-Ferrus power vacuum.

 

I myself enjoy Swallows novels, always been suprised at the hate he gets.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I have to agree about Nick Kyme. I actually love Salamanders, they're the paladins of 40k and deserve an author who can convey their 'I am a shield to His people' mentality. That brief scene in 'Helsreach' where the Salamanders Captain and Grimaldus argue (and the attached flashbacks) was authentic, made sense and still made both Chapters interesting but highlighted their fundamental differences. Not stupid 'Marines are petty sadists who plot and murder eachother over vendettas even a human being wouldn't'. The crossover on the space hulk with ADB's First Claw in that novella was especially painful a comparison. I couldn't care about any of the bitter, sarcastic Salamanders. But the sadistic, bitter Night Lords? Rooting for them the whole time. 

 

'Battle for the Abyss' is a real shame. You can almost see the intent of a much better novel. In a hands of a better writer, it could've been up there with the best. Counter however does a paint by numbers job, and it shows. I guess I'm in a minority for liking his Grey Knight series (I think it holds up well, even though I consider ADB a superior novelist). But yeah, 'Abyss' is so boring and bland, even the HH series pans it. Such a waste. It's real crime isn't being awful (it's not poorly written I think). It's just boring and of no consequence, which is lethal for a series built on continuity (ie each book feeds into the following to a lesser or greater extent). 

 

I agree about 'Death of Credibility' and 'Hunt I Fell Asleep On'. Maybe we're spoiled by the standard of 'Rynns World' and 'Helsreach', which are some of the best Marine books around. But it's sad that otherwise interesting material is either turned into parody or just goes nowhere for so long. 

 

Agreed about the Blood Angels series too. Again, like 'Abyss', interesting concepts are wasted on an inferior writer. 

 

Goto is one of the unholy inner circle of Tzeentch. Summon the 666th should he manifest in the material plane again. 

[Hyaenidae]

I still wince when I think of the high standard of the cover art of BftA, swiftly followed by a terrible storyline. that was a case where I judged a book by its cover, and my sanity paid for that poor decision. an ultramarine protecting a wounded thousand son from a horde of word bearers? color me intrigued. it's an absolute shame that book didn't match my vision.

 

AND this is coming from a hardcore fan of the soul drinker series...

[Conn Eremon]

Funny, I thought the book was better than the cover. And I hated that book.

 

I'm usually a fan of that artist, too.