Deus Imperator Vult Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Is there anything redeemable regarding HH Raven Guard? I did get through Deliverance Lost but it was pretty uninspiring, one of the rare cases where I was put off a planned army by a book... Ravens Flight the first BL audio drama. Corax is a total badass in it, admittedly some of the voice acting is a little weak but it was their first attempt. Honestly, this story was so good I couldn't wait for Deliverance Lost then Thorpe was like "Oh you like tough, menacing Corax.... well you'll love stupid doesn't recognise his own brothers or sons Corax." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-chaplain Astador Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 The Soul drinkers suff, found that really bad. Battle for the Abyss was also awful. I recently read the HH compilation Legacies of Betrayal, and within there was a short story about Aeonid Thiel, that I found pretty bad. It seemed corny and very out of keeping with established fluff / characters. I wish I could say something to get you to put that book down now, before you truly understand the meaning of boredom and useless plot arcs. Just don't be surprised when you hit the end, you look like this... http://i.imgur.com/RlniyQy.gif Yeah, I have to be honest I liked Damnation of Pythos while reading it. Then I got to the end and thought, 'why?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I have a love/hate relationship with the Soul Drinkers. I really enjoy their old history, I love their heraldry, motto, their old ethics, and traditions. The first 6 chapters were actually pretty cool, until Sarpedon turned into Spider-Man, and my eyelid twitched. It was definitely a series I read from beginning to end, but mainly to decipher their past, not to follow their current adventures. There were a number of solid ideas there, and had Counter gone a different direction, he probably could have had a cult following (the inquisitor was a very likable and believable dude, for example, in the second and third book.) It's a shame the bad outweighed the good in those books, because there was potential there. On another note, I rarely avoid a work because of a newer writer, as everyone has a learning curve, and some folks' curve is deeper. Remember, even Anthony Reynolds, the man despised by many for his take on 40k Word Bearers for years, was able to make the masterpiece that was The Purge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegsmacht Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I have the Word Bearers omnibus and I read most of the first book and I don't remember it being that bad. I only stopped reading it because I have a horrible habit reading something the stop to read something else. I still haven't read Talon of Horus. On the other hand I recently downloaded The Eightfold Path by Anthony Reynolds and really enjoyed it. He also did Chosen of Khorne and I liked it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxkaze Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Yup it could be just the writter's learning curve, but it still falls down to the reader and on what he/she read about. For my take...Deliverance Lost for me was a sad read, then there was Storm of Iron. Never got to finish those as the plots progresses into the dulling of my senses and out right discouragement. Then again there was the Dark Apostle (part of the Word Bearers Omnibus), that really left a bad taste. Never got to finish the initial chapters... sorry just not my flavor. (Or probably an Anthony Reynold's thing ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 If you're hatin' on Reynolds, then you ain't read The Purge, brother. That story was sublime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 And Graham McNeil wrote "Storm of Iron". Hang on, let me check... Nope, that did not cause all the problems with False Gods, Angel Exterminatus, Fulgrim, and the Uriel Ventris series to vanish in a puff of smoke. A shame. My bookshelf would be much improved if it did. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 And Graham McNeil wrote "Storm of Iron". Hang on, let me check... Nope, that did not cause all the problems with False Gods, Angel Exterminatus, Fulgrim, and the Uriel Ventris series to vanish in a puff of smoke. A shame. My bookshelf would be much improved if it did. McNeil really ought to be sacked. At least Kyme gives us extremely amusing things like Albino Salamander Super Saiyans or pet Black Dragons. McNeil.... I can't think of anything I really like about his work. Storm of Iron was alright, but as you said it does not wash him of his sins to the franchise. The only character of his that I can think of ever finding interesting, the Fleshborn or whatever it was name, was just given an undignified Hollywood-esque redemption death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 There's a large difference when an author sets a high bar and never again reaches it, and an author who consistently hits mid to low marks, then suddenly creates a masterpiece. One you have given up on, because of his track record. The other has shown potential, despite of it. It's a bit of a double standard, but it's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 There's a large difference when an author sets a high bar and never again reaches it, and an author who consistently hits mid to low marks, then suddenly creates a masterpiece. One you have given up on, because of his track record. The other has shown potential, despite of it. It's a bit of a double standard, but it's true. Kyme shows potential. McNeil is just facepalm inducing- especially with his more recent work. I still cant believe he forgot one of his characters got a hand chopped off- it'd be like Luke Skywalker suddenly jumping out and taking a swing at Vader with his right arm at the end of Episode V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Ach, that was aimed at Wade, but yeah, Kyme has potential, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Ugh. I'll take McNeill's hits-or-miss books over Kyme's "he cranks it out of the park. . . too bad it was a foul ball!" books any day of the week. Yeah, Ventris was horrible, but I also don't understand the hate on Angel Exterminatus or Fulgrim. Were they works of art? No, but it's not like 40K is Shakespeare, either. And besides, this is the man who gave us A Thousand Sons, one of the best Heresy novels yet released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareddm Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Kyme's been doing better work lately. All his Marines Malevolent stories have been quite enjoyable. I just wish his Salamanders stories were even half as good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted May 23, 2015 Author Share Posted May 23, 2015 And besides, this is the man who gave us A Thousand Sons, one of the best Heresy novels yet released. it may be my bias kicking in, but I really think A Thousand Sons missed the mark. I was most excited to read about the Council of Nikea, and thought Ahriman passing out was the a cop out. WLK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Ugh. I'll take McNeill's hits-or-miss books over Kyme's "he cranks it out of the park. . . too bad it was a foul ball!" books any day of the week. Yeah, Ventris was horrible, but I also don't understand the hate on Angel Exterminatus or Fulgrim. Were they works of art? No, but it's not like 40K is Shakespeare, either. And besides, this is the man who gave us A Thousand Sons, one of the best Heresy novels yet released. Angel Exterminatus was to Iron Warriors as the novel Iron Hands was to Iron Hands. Not as extreme, but it still hurt the heart. That was not my Primarch. The only redeemable character seemed to be Grendel, the only Iron Warrior that acts like an Iron Warrior. To each their own, of course, but I was seriously dissapointed. Fulgrim wasn't so bad, and I really enjoyed A Thousand Sons. McNeil's flowery, Hollywood-esqe action scenes play well with the Thousand Sons at war, for some reason, and I wouldn't mind reading more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus Imperator Vult Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Ugh. I'll take McNeill's hits-or-miss books over Kyme's "he cranks it out of the park. . . too bad it was a foul ball!" books any day of the week. Yeah, Ventris was horrible, but I also don't understand the hate on Angel Exterminatus or Fulgrim. Were they works of art? No, but it's not like 40K is Shakespeare, either. And besides, this is the man who gave us A Thousand Sons, one of the best Heresy novels yet released. I don't know I think the scene in Fulgrim when the Lord Commander see's the corrupted painting and can't look away was so tragic it was bordering on Shakespearian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Fulgrim was just a slog for me to get through. The only parts that were remotely enjoyable were when Ferrus and the Iron Hands were onscreen. Ferrus: "I should take his head!" Santar: "He is one of our most decorated commanders, Father. Perhaps you should merely take his arms?" Ferrus: "His arms? What good is he to the Legion without his arms!" Santar: "Very little. But I imagine more than he would be without his head." Ferrus: *Booming laughter* I liked that, the idea that Ferrus Manus is quick to anger and will rage louder than almost all of his brothers...but he's equally quick to laugh, even when the joke is on him, longer and more sincerely than any of his brothers, the kind of man who can go from shouting a room full of hardened killers into trembling submission to joking with them, slapping them on the back, and forging bonds of loyalty that would see them follow him to the gates of Hell and beyond. His hands may have been iron, but there was a great heart beating in his chest, and both the Imperium as a whole and the Iron Hands in particular are poorer for it being stilled at Isstvan. In contrast, the Emperor's Children and remembrancers left me with a strong case of "I don't care about any of these characters." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Huh. I really liked Ostian Delafour. . . his crazy girlfriend with the Juliet-style ending was an interesting add-on but not the star of the show, I thought. On the other hand, I find, Wade, that most people who dislike Fulgrim dislike the Iron Hands sections the most. I've lost count of the number of people who love pointing out the various ways in which Ferrus and his sons act like complete idiots in that book. I share your point of view, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 The part I disliked the most was Fulgrim bullying the Imperial Army officers at the beginning of the campaign against the laer. This is the Primarch who turned a resource starved dystopian corporate hellhole into a paradise, and he acts like such an unbelievably petty spoiled brat there-before he ever touches the cursed sword, mind you... I didn't believe this character could lead a wet dog to a dry bed, let alone that he could rule a world, lead a Legion, or forge a friendship with Ferrus Manus. Getting corrupted by Slaanesh was positive character development compared to the screeching popinjay he was beforehand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I haven't put any down unfinished. I'm the "I have to see if this gets worse or better" kind of reader. I also read fast (the average 400 page novel is about 2.5-3 hours of reading for me) so it's not a huge investment in time to finish them. However, that all said, Battle for the Abyss made me wish I had my 2.5-3 hours back. That book just couldn't fix itself. There are a few others but that one is the only one that made me think I had actually wasted time. The others at least still had SOME redeeming quality. That one had none to me. I've reread most everything else (Heresy and non-Heresy) but that one hasn't even been looked at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VikingWarband Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I haven't put any down unfinished. I'm the "I have to see if this gets worse or better" kind of reader. I also read fast (the average 400 page novel is about 2.5-3 hours of reading for me) so it's not a huge investment in time to finish them. However, that all said, Battle for the Abyss made me wish I had my 2.5-3 hours back. That book just couldn't fix itself. There are a few others but that one is the only one that made me think I had actually wasted time. The others at least still had SOME redeeming quality. That one had none to me. I've reread most everything else (Heresy and non-Heresy) but that one hasn't even been looked at. I would give anything to be able to read as quickly as that... That's awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I would give anything to be able to read as quickly as that... That's awesome. Sometimes it's a tad annoying. I read a lot of serialized fiction because I read fast enough the story is over before I want it too. Serialized fiction at least the world continues after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitnam Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I have to say that I'm always confused by the dislike towards Ben Counter and James Swallow, both have their ups and downs but I really emjoyed Fear to Tread, Eisentein, and the Soul Drinker novels. McNeil is alright..loved A Thousand Sons (moreso then Prospero Burns) and liked Horus Rising. I'm going through Fulgrim right now andnits uneven...the bit about making the Laer a protectorate was nonsense but the portrayal of the Iron Hands is enjoyable one book I didnt put down but wosh I did: Desert Raiders. Fun action scenes, but the ending ruined it. Really none of the imperial guard books besides Ciaphas Cain have grabbed me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraZero20 Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment, but despite the fact that I've found some books to be bad I have managed to finish them from start to finish XP Off the top of my head the books that come to mind would be Atlas Infernal, The Legion of the Damned, Death of Antagonis, Damnation of Pythos, Malodrax and Seventh Retribution to name a few. I haven't found a book in which I hold out hope that there is going to be something good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Atlas Infernal was great (I thought). Now Damnation to Pythos, tooooooooooooooootal clunker at the end. I felt the first half or so could have been a decent novella, and some of the horror/terror scenes where well done. At the end though, I was just wanting it to end it actually felt like a 40K 'yep its a crap sack universe, deal with it' ending. I liked the Iron Hands...and actually was loading up the old FW cart with kits, but then, much like their situation...it all fell apart rather quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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