PastelAvenger Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Hey folks I've been trying to put together an Alpha Legion force but I'm struggling with the paint scheme. The original Legion I was going to collect was Sons of Horus, I love the fluff and the whole idea of being the Tip of the Spear. I just wanted some feedback on my army list. Everything is changeable although I would like to keep the Reavers. I'm aiming for 2000pts and I know I'm 3pts over but I'm sure that can be addressed easily enough. +++ Sons of Horus (2003pts) +++ ++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (2003pts) ++ + HQ (432pts) + Legion Centurion [Cataphractii Terminator Armour with Combi-Weapon, The Cataphractii Primus, Thunderhammer] Consul Delegatus Master of the Legion [The Black Reaving] Legion Centurion [banestrike Rounds, Legion Scimitar Jetbike with Heavy Bolter, Melta Bombs, Power Armour, Refractor Field, Thunder Hammer] Consul [Primus Medicae] Legion Centurion [Artificer Armour, Refractor Field] Consul [Master of Signal] + Troops (743pts) + Legion Tactical Squad [Legion Tactical Sergeant, 14x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla] Legion Tactical Squad [Legion Tactical Sergeant, 14x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla] Reaver Attack Squad [Artificer Armour, 8x Chainaxe, Jump Packs, 2x Power Fist, 10x Reavers] + Elites (508pts) + Apothecarion Detachment Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner, Power Sword] Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner, Power Sword] Justaerin Terminator Squad [4x Combi-Weapon, 5x Justaerin Terminators, 2x Lightning Claw, Multi-melta, 2x Power Fist, Chainfist] + Fast Attack (320pts) + Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron (320pts) [Melta Bombs, 2x Multi-Melta, 6x Space Marine Sky Hunters] Sky Hunter Sergeant [Power Fist] + Legion + Legion Astartes [XVI: Sons of Horus] Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304603-sons-of-horus-2000pts/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
LolSkalatrax Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Imho, u can free up to 25pts. Discard PF on Jetbikes mb. And swap delegatus for praetor. More wounds, better WS, can takr Paragon Blade. And you can swap Justaerins for termies, but still using painting scheme and justaerin models. Justaernis just overprised. Imo. Or discard jetbikes ang get Spartan for termi team :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304603-sons-of-horus-2000pts/#findComment-3976761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LolSkalatrax Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Doublepost. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304603-sons-of-horus-2000pts/#findComment-3976762 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastelAvenger Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 If I dropped the Justaerin then I would definitely need to take the Spartan to ferry a normal squad of Terminators around, as they can't deep strike under the RoW. That would reduce my model count quite a bit though. If I made those changes should I look at giving the Primus Medicare Terminator Armour? Or just get rid? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304603-sons-of-horus-2000pts/#findComment-3976786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LolSkalatrax Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 If u take spartan u should. But it's an all eggs in one basket. And,mb im missing something. U have deepsriking Justaerins and non deepstriking Delegatusin TDA Also u can try banestrike bolters equiped Reavers on jump packs with jump pack master of signal for 5 bs. Can he take pack? I almost fall asleep so cant reach my book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304603-sons-of-horus-2000pts/#findComment-3976801 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastelAvenger Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 I missed that, thanks for pointing it out, completely slipped by me that the Delegastus couldn't Deep Strike with the Justaerin. Might have to rethink his role. A jetpack is practically the only option a Master of Signals can take. I think I shoukd keep him in the Tacticals though the benefit of Banestrikes is rolling 6s but a BS5 Fury of the Legion has some serious weight behind it. Reavers just scream that they need to get into Assault and I can't really see the benefit of giving them Banestrike. Do you have any practical experience using them with Banestrikes? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304603-sons-of-horus-2000pts/#findComment-3976824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kossaka Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 If you take the Black Reaving RoW (like you are) it allows Justaerin to deep strike, so you might not need to take a Spartan for them. Or you can potentially take Abbadon as your Legion Master and he allows any terminator equipped model to teleport down with him. Questions: How do you want this list to work? And why are you taking their specific RoW? The rage when they charge into a unit already engaged in CC? Is your plan to leapfrog units with the Reavers, Jetbikes, and Terminators assault first to open up a unit for your tactical squads to charge in to leverage Merciless Fighters and the Rage allowing you to potentially wipe out units(I have no idea how effective this is)? IMHO the Black Reaving puts alot of restrictions without much gains unless you plan for it. Edit: Stupidly posted early, Edits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304603-sons-of-horus-2000pts/#findComment-3976878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastelAvenger Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 You've hit it spot on, That's exactly my idea, to use my Tacticals as a hammer unit to wipe out the unit and move on to the next. Jetbikes also double up as a pretty good Anit Tank unit. Using the RoW means that I don't have to pay a tax for transporting the Justaerin which every terminator squad comes with. Spartans although are indestructible from what I've seen don't tend to make their points back (basing this on 40k) I could run this without taking the RoW I was just hoping for the added benefit it would offer for a pretty assault heavy force Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304603-sons-of-horus-2000pts/#findComment-3976898 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kossaka Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Hmm. I wouldn't take a spartan then. while they are almost indestructible, they are a one trick unit. Being a huge ceramite box with an assault ramp. the sponson weapons are good and can net some kills. It would be your only armor that is in the list, so it would be singled out and killed with all the AT in the opponents list. It looks like you are footslogging across the board so I would want my units next to each other so they are able to charge at the same time. if your openers get their early it does no good for the rest of the units. I would get more bodies on the board instead of a Spartan. Another 10 man squad of Reavers? Buff out your Justaerin squad? max out the Tacticals? Are you going against other legion lists or are you facing down regular 40k stuff? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304603-sons-of-horus-2000pts/#findComment-3976921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastelAvenger Posted March 15, 2015 Author Share Posted March 15, 2015 I'm primarily going against 30k legions, based on what you're are saying an other unit of Reavers might be better and dropping Justaerin squad all together might be best. It would leave me 40pts (roughly) which could be used to either buy second close combat weapons or more bodies for the Tacticals. Another option I was toying with was reducing the Jetbike squad and adding a Contemptor! Any thoughts on that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304603-sons-of-horus-2000pts/#findComment-3977110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kossaka Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Contemptors are cool and our Legion specific one is tight, but Contemptors suffer of being 200+ Points when they are all said and done. The Contemptor-Mortis is worth it in points but they need to be taken in pairs or positioned defensively so a lucky shot won’t take it out. I have become a HUGE fan on the Deredeo's that FW just did. From what I have proxied they are absolutely terrifying when placed correctly and can destroy a lot . They also come with the Targeting array that the Mortis comes with. They come stock with a Anvilius battery, 4 shot TL S8 AP4 Sunder. With the option to take a Aiolos missile launcher that isa 3 shot S6 AP3 pinning, Independent tracking so it can target a different unit than the Battery. It also always hits the side armor when targeting a vehicle and does not require line of sight. If you take vehicles run it in pairs or triplets. Single vehicles are too easy to single out and kill before they become dangerous. I built your list in my Battle Scribe with different setups. From looking at the list I feel that your lacking ranged anti-tank on a unit to get it where it needs to go quickly. IMHO that's why Sicarians are so good, they are fast and can reliably take out any armor that they can come across, even Spartans. I’ve been playing around with the ideas of Javelin Attack Speeders for your list. They are AV 11/11/10 with 2 HP but come with Cyclone Missile Launchers and can take 2 HKM's at a melta bomb apiece, with outflank. That means 4 S8 shots into side armor when it arrives on the side of the board. That’s pretty awesome to me. That being said, I was bored hanging out in my apartment and toyed around with it a lot and came up with some fun changes that would add more bodies to the army and give it some damage outside of CC. these are VERY RADICAL changes to the list, and if you dont dig'em its cool. with the changes it comes to 2k exactly. - dropped the Jet-Bike squad and the Jet-Bike Primus. - Dropped the Justaerin. - changing the combi-weapon on the Delegatus to a combi-bolter with just banestrikes. -removed the 2 powerfists on the reavers and cut them down to 10 flat instead of 11. - Added 2 squads of 2 Javelins with CMLs and 2 HKMs. (with the idea that you use Tip of the Spear to get them on the board early, outflanking them and hitting vehicles on side or rear armor depending on positioning and deployment. And after the first turn of alpha strike they are 2 CML’s on wicked fast platforms to get side and rear armor shots. Or they just die horribly but not until they let loose with 4 S8 shots on the first turn per javelin.) They can also be swaped for 2 Contemptor-Mortises? with Dual TL AC's. I can go both ways here, but if you swap them out of Fast Attack you loose access to the Heavy Support section, that could potentially free up 240 points. - And then because there are 2 FA choices they open up 1 HS slot! - Added a Deredeo Dread,it has the Anvilius battery and the Aiolos missile launcher. (BA model in my opinion and is begging to be painted sea-green.) - Added in extra CCW’s on your tacticals so they get 2 attacks base. - Added a squad of 10 Reavers with chainaxes and a jump Packs. Sorry for any spelling errors. its late here, and I need to get to bed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304603-sons-of-horus-2000pts/#findComment-3977161 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastelAvenger Posted March 15, 2015 Author Share Posted March 15, 2015 You make some excellent points, I'm going to stay away from the Deredeo at the moment though. The rules are experimental and are bound to change as it looks adsurbly good on paper at the moment. Ive always been found of Javelins, they do die in a stiff breeze but as long as they take out their target then suppose its job done. What about taking a Sicaran instead of the Deredeo? Although it doesnt have Skyfire or Interceptor the high rate of fire should mean it could fullfill that role at a pinch. Although the Reavers will force saves due to the weight of attacks I would like a way to guarantee that I'm able to punch through a tough opponent so I'm not limited to just attacking Tacticals. What do you think of this? +++ Sons of Horus (1991pts) +++ ++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (1991pts) ++ + HQ (270pts) + Legion Centurion [Artificer Armour, Power Weapon, Refractor Field] Consul [Master of Signal] Legion Centurion [Artificer Armour, Jump Pack, Pair of Lightning Claws, Refractor Field] Consul Delegatus [Master of the Legion] + Troops (1146pts) + Legion Tactical Squad [16x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade] Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist] Legion Tactical Squad [16x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade] Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist] Reaver Attack Squad [Artificer Armour, 9x Chainaxe, Jump Packs, Power Fist, 9x Reavers] Reaver Attack Squad [Artificer Armour, 9x Chainaxe, Jump Packs, Power Fist, 9x Reavers] + Fast Attack (380pts) + Legion Javelin Attack Speeder Squadron Legion Javelin Attack Speeder [2x Hunter-killer Missiles, Multi-melta] Legion Javelin Attack Speeder [2x Hunter-killer Missiles, Multi-melta] Legion Javelin Attack Speeder Squadron Legion Javelin Attack Speeder [2x Hunter-killer Missiles, Multi-melta] Legion Javelin Attack Speeder [2x Hunter-killer Missiles, Multi-melta] + Heavy Support (195pts) + Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (195pts) [Armoured Ceramite, Lascannons] + Legion + Legion Astartes [XVI: Sons of Horus] Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304603-sons-of-horus-2000pts/#findComment-3977358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Masters of Signal are now "Support Officers" Along with Primus Medicaes and Librarians; they can't be taken as Compulsory HQ's anymore v_v Just thought you should know. I didn't see the Delegatus. For some reason I saw 2 Masters of Signal @_@ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304603-sons-of-horus-2000pts/#findComment-3977578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastelAvenger Posted March 15, 2015 Author Share Posted March 15, 2015 No worries, I'm loving the idea of the Delegatus for low point games. When I get to 3k I will probably upgrade him to a Praetor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304603-sons-of-horus-2000pts/#findComment-3977584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sedobren Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I strongly suggest more power weapons and fists on the reavers, they are your primary assault unit and they should feel safe when assaulting! I believe that you are still using the black reaving in the second list right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304603-sons-of-horus-2000pts/#findComment-3978136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastelAvenger Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 Funny enough I came to that conclusion myself, I will need at least 2 power swords I think to ensure that I destroy the unit they charge. I am still using The Black Reaving. It's meant to be present on the above list. I was thinking about dropping the lascannons on the Sicaran that will free up some upgrade money and maybe drop the Power Fist on the Tacticals to a Power Weapon? Something like this +++ Sons of Horus (1999pts) +++ ++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (1999pts) ++ + HQ (290pts) + Legion Centurion [Artificer Armour, Jump Pack, Power Weapon, Refractor Field] ····Consul [Master of Signal] Legion Centurion [Artificer Armour, Jump Pack, Pair of Lightning Claws, Refractor Field] ····Consul ········Delegatus ············Master of the Legion [The Black Reaving] + Troops (1154pts) + Legion Tactical Squad [14x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Nuncio-Vox, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade] ····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist] Legion Tactical Squad [14x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Nuncio-Vox, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade] ····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist] Reaver Attack Squad [Artificer Armour, 7x Chainaxe, Jump Packs, Power Fist, 2x Power Weapon, 9x Reavers] Reaver Attack Squad [Artificer Armour, 7x Chainaxe, Jump Packs, Power Fist, 2x Power Weapon, 9x Reavers] + Fast Attack (380pts) + Legion Javelin Attack Speeder Squadron ····Legion Javelin Attack Speeder [2x Hunter-killer Missiles, Multi-melta] ····Legion Javelin Attack Speeder [2x Hunter-killer Missiles, Multi-melta] Legion Javelin Attack Speeder Squadron ····Legion Javelin Attack Speeder [2x Hunter-killer Missiles, Multi-melta] ····Legion Javelin Attack Speeder [2x Hunter-killer Missiles, Multi-melta] + Heavy Support (175pts) + Legion Sicaran Battle Tank [Armoured Ceramite, Heavy Bolters] + Legion + Legion Astartes [XVI: Sons of Horus] Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304603-sons-of-horus-2000pts/#findComment-3978204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kossaka Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Those sound like good changes to make to give some better teeth in assault. The Sicarian has good damage just with its main gun, so swaping out LC's would free up a potential 4 power weapons, and If you drop your Power Fists on the Tacticals to a Power weapon it frees up another one. I would be interested whats the wound difference between a Power Axe with 3 attacks and a Power Sword with 4 would look like, because if they don't hit at initiative, no merciless fighter bonus. Are you planning on using the Tacticals to open up for your Reavers to get Rage? or is it Reavers to open up for the Tacticals? Thematically I would imagine Tacticals tie them down and the Reavers swoop in with jump packs to go in for the kill. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304603-sons-of-horus-2000pts/#findComment-3978254 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sedobren Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 i'd drop the chainaxes too. let me explain: in 30k the two main enemies to use a 4+ save are solar auxilia and some of the mechanicum units. in the first case they do not pose such a threat in cc since, well, they are humans at i3. about the latter the main problem is not just denying their Armour save but above it wounding them, so you might be more comfortable with another powerfist from the points you save here and there (and a powerfist also negate their save). you should also think that those two 10-man strong reavers units will be a primary target for the enemy once they come into the battlefield (from the right flank i hope), that's why i like them with full complement (this way the also secure the extra i1 attack, since they count as 30 models and they only fear other jump-packed units for that rule). Also i fear that space marines units without an apothecary will go really fast, i mean they seem a little unprotected (but, you know, there are also a lot of str 8 weapons around so...) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304603-sons-of-horus-2000pts/#findComment-3978412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastelAvenger Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 I would prefer the Reaver's to get the Rage bonus and I think they would be easier to get into the assault due to the jump packs, also there is less chance of a disordered charge. Unfortunately I'm rubbish at math hammer so I can only assume it's better to have 4 attacks than 3, if anyone's better please chip in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304603-sons-of-horus-2000pts/#findComment-3978483 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastelAvenger Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 I would prefer my Tactical's to have Apothecaries preferably with Augary Scanner and at least a Power Sword, but I'm unsure what to get rid of to free up the points. Just like adding more Reaves, at 2000PTS I just can't see where to trim the fat to free up the points. For 15 Reavers and 2 PF 2 PW with AA its almost 400pts, 2 of these are almost half my points and the only way to accommodate these I can see is by dropping the Sicaran and maybe 2 Javelins but that would seriously hinder my long range fire power. Everyone's recommendations have been amazing so any further ideas on how I can get 2 Apothecaries and 10 more Reaves would be brilliant Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304603-sons-of-horus-2000pts/#findComment-3978517 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sedobren Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 well, you get 14 points from chainaxes, if you remove the jump pack from the master of signal and play him into one of the foot squad (so you can eventually use the orbital strike on turn one and even unload fury of the legion at bs5, or give bonus to the sicaran if near) here you have one apothecary. i don't know about another though... you may consider dropping one of the reavers squad, pump up the other and even play a jump packed primus medicae with it, but that's just the way i like to play them, you should do a few games and test everything. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304603-sons-of-horus-2000pts/#findComment-3978871 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Why not take the Praetor? +1 WS, W, A, Ld(? AFB) for 10pts. Dropping Artificer Armour from the Master of Signal gives you these points Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304603-sons-of-horus-2000pts/#findComment-3979267 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastelAvenger Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 Why not take the Praetor? +1 WS, W, A, Ld(? AFB) for 10pts. Dropping Artificer Armour from the Master of Signal gives you these points I was trying to keep points down and I would like to keep the Artificer Amour on the Master of Signals but if I can squeeze 10 points would you keep him with dual lightning claws or take a paragon blade? Whenever I've used a Praetor I always seem to spend crazy points on them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304603-sons-of-horus-2000pts/#findComment-3979659 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sedobren Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Actually the praetor looks really good to me equipped with a paragon blade or a pair of claws combination and digital lasers (you have up to 6 attacks, 7 on charge plus the one from SoH rules) or with the Cataphracti primus (or whatever its called the SoH relic terminator armour) that gives him T5 and eternal warrior for less than of a jetbike with iron halo (but you get 7 attacks and a paragon blade only with the jetbike since the cataphractii does only allows the power weapon be replaced) and is not, by any means, expensive: praetor w/ Cataphractii primus, digital lasers and either paragon blade (6 attacks str 5 vp2) or lightning claws (7 shred attacks str4 vp3) is 185 praetor w/ Jetbike, paragon blade and power fist, digital lasers and refractor field is 215 (but he is on a flying bike and keeps T5 in CC), or remove the fist and give him meltabombs for 200 pts total. he looks like very effective in cc, with vp2 str5 and really a lot of attacks (either 7 or 8, you should get at least one instant death with the paragon blade) being a son of horus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304603-sons-of-horus-2000pts/#findComment-3979689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastelAvenger Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 I'm not found of taking him on a Jetbike or Cataphractii unless he's accompanied by a similar unit. In either of those cases he's either slowed down or slowing down a unit. On his own he will be blown away in seconds. Praetor w/ Jump Pack, Paragon Blade, Digital Lasers, Iron Halo or Refractor Field 185pts stick him with the Reavers and get him into combat as soon as possible. It's basically the same list but the Tactical Sarg takes a power weapon not a power fist and no chain axes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304603-sons-of-horus-2000pts/#findComment-3979729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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