*Furyou Miko Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Anyone else noticed this? Maybe its because my lack of funds means I don't buy the shiny allied toys and things, but playing as Sisters, I've found that all of the difficult choices and worries about what cheese or fluff lists my opponents might bring... that is to say, how the meta looks from where I'm standing... boils down to one question: "Do I need more Melta in my army this week, or more Bolters and Flamers?" Generally this opinion will be informed by what's been released recently. Pre-crons, it was definitely "more melta." Post-crons, I'm finding I have to bring a more balanced ratio of melta:bolter because I need the bolters' RoF to put the 'crons down, but can't leave all the melta at home in case I face someone who isn't playing Necrons. With the Skitarii, if they catch on, I'll probably be shifting even more towards Bolters over Melta and infantry over vehicles because of the proliferation of high-S weapons on low-Sv models. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305112-simplifying-the-meta/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I think this may be more an amicus subject, but I feel where you are coming from. I generally buy what I think is cool or what I believe I can convert when I can afford it. Basically having a list to buy to. I accept that I won't win every game but will learn from the experience, also seeing how I could change tactics with what I have. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305112-simplifying-the-meta/#findComment-3987088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naminé Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I agree with you. It's not just the lack of new shineys, it's our restrictions that make us stronger. We only have 3 types of ranged weapons which are each the best at what they do (almost) and so the question is never 'what shall I bring', but 'where should I put it?' I'm also very much of the opinion that the 40k arms race a lot of people subscribe to is a fallacy and completely the wrong way to create a competitive army. We are the embodiment of how a balanced army can stomp other cheese :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305112-simplifying-the-meta/#findComment-3987089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sedibear Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I'm currently of the opinion that the classic Heavy Flamer + Meltagun loadout for our Battle Sisters is where it's at right now. A 5-sister squad with this loadout clocks in at 100 points (combi-option + Veteran upgrade for the Superior), which is great value. Load them in an Immolator with a Priest, or a Rhino with a few more Sisters. Heavy Bolter Retributors, or Heavy Bolter Command Squads, are also pulling their weight against Newcrons. If your Heavy Support is filled up with Exorcists I highly recommend trying out the 5x Heavy Bolter loadout for the Command Squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305112-simplifying-the-meta/#findComment-3987420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 ~shrug~ Rather than re-tweaking my loadout to every flavor of the month-driven shift in the meta, I just stick with HF/m battle sisters squads en masse, and it all shakes out in the end. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305112-simplifying-the-meta/#findComment-3988738 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackTalos Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 ~shrug~ Rather than re-tweaking my loadout to every flavor of the month-driven shift in the meta, I just stick with HF/m battle sisters squads en masse, and it all shakes out in the end. Same here, i never went for the 3-Exos meta, always had either the Avenger or Heavy-Bolter Retributors anyway. If i did not have the Retributors i'd have the Command Squad with 5 HBs. I've always been a big fan of the Heavy Bolter. Even on my Space Marines... I don't think my sisters list changed much, but i havent faced the Newcrons.... =P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305112-simplifying-the-meta/#findComment-3989079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I have never been a fan of split weapon squads. I like them specialized. 2 melta or 2 flamers. The old witch hunter days had 4 flamer dominions in a flamer Immolator. Now I use melta dominions in a Repressor. Rules change. Tactics change. Life is change. Change or die. This is not 5th edition any more. You can't play like it is and expect to succeed. Every new edition (both main rules and codex) needs to taken as if it is a whole new game. Basic troops can't go 3++ any more. Immolators can't move 12" and flame. Power weapons no longer ignore all armor. You can't assault out of a wreaked Rhino. So I do what I can instead. Anyway, that's my way of looking at it. YMMV Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305112-simplifying-the-meta/#findComment-3989301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Danse Macabre Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 To be honest i normally Run the same list, build around a few key things and what I know works. Its reliable, flexible and competitive. Only thing I consider is sometimes switchin the Avenger to Heavy Bolter Retributors which i like to do more these days as flyers have dropped in threat. Main threat to me however is wraith knights, damn things can be hard to put down. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305112-simplifying-the-meta/#findComment-3989370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvih Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I have never been a fan of split weapon squads. I like them specialized. 2 melta or 2 flamers. Same here. Don't see much point in split weapons personally, but we all do as we see fit :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305112-simplifying-the-meta/#findComment-3990209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willy Pete Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I like the split weapons, heavy flamethrower and melta gun, because I like the flexibility to be able to handle just about anything, infantry, vehicles or monstrous creatures.. On the other hand, I can also see the utility in specialized squads, two flamethrowers doubles the amount of pain you can put on infantry, and two melta guns immediately doubles the chances of hitting and killing a tank. I think it comes down to two things, personal preferences and your local meta. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305112-simplifying-the-meta/#findComment-3990757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 Despite the words of Heinlein, I find that without specialising squads, they don't have the reliability to be used for any given role. Instead of a unit that can perform every role, you end up with a unit that's not quite good enough at any role. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305112-simplifying-the-meta/#findComment-3990935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvih Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Well that's the thing "handling just about anything" quickly becomes "not being able to properly handle anything". Shoot at a tank, and you're wasting the flamer. Shoot at infantry, and unless it's something with a good armor save, the melta doesn't do much extra. With Sisters it's easy to bring a lot of squads with upgrades, so if need be I run a flamer squad and a melta squad next to each other. Then for example meltas can pop that transport and then the flamers kill the contents. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305112-simplifying-the-meta/#findComment-3990939 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naminé Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 My personal thoughts are splitting a squad's role in half like that is one of the worst things you can do to neuter said squad, for the reasons given above. This is one of those things that people will never agree on though and we must all follow our preferences :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305112-simplifying-the-meta/#findComment-3990966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackTalos Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I've had good experience with Melta+Heavy Flamer as 5 Girls in a Rhino. Drive around shooting Melta+Boltguns, Heavy Flamer+ Boltguns if there's only Infantry around (and you get close enough without your Rhino already being a wreck) but usually the Heavy Flamer is useful late-game, when you're getting close or over-watching.Although i've had the Melta-gun Kill on overwatch and the charge failing for range once. That was nice... But the melta is usually good early-game, when stuff is in transports and at range.Never thought of 2 Meltas in a BSS Squad though... that really sounds like a plan =P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305112-simplifying-the-meta/#findComment-3991836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Danse Macabre Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Personally I run the 5 sisters split squads in Immolators, the Immolator itself brings the second melta, the heavy flamer in the squad makes sure my unit is not usless against hordes. Yes they don't really work on armour but the amount it puts a foe off charging helps as well and on the rear of certain things or on some low armour vehicals it can still cause havoc. Either way though I see this cookie cutter squad option as being in a good place to fight the current meta so you maintain your flexability and have the transports to negate almost all small arms fire until you decide your ready to bring the pain. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305112-simplifying-the-meta/#findComment-3991905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Personally I run the 5 sisters split squads in Immolators, the Immolator itself brings the second melta, the heavy flamer in the squad makes sure my unit is not usless against hordes. Having a plan and equipping your squads for that plan is often the most important thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305112-simplifying-the-meta/#findComment-3991955 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Danse Macabre Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I agree but often you are forced to improvise and truth be told, I run all comers lists, I never plan against certain foes, I hate people who list tailor. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305112-simplifying-the-meta/#findComment-3991970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackTalos Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Yeah, that is also the experience i have with Melta + Heavy Flamer. They usually have a target for the Melta, early-game, and they usually have a target for the Heavy Flamer + Overwatch denial later in the game.Having them in an Immolator rather than Rhino though, is limiting the Unit's synergy to MM only early game and then the 1 chance you have for the Heavy Flamer. I find Rhino works better, in MSU armies of course, and i tend to have an Imperial Knight usually soaking up most Turn 1-2 shots.(From the Rhinos) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305112-simplifying-the-meta/#findComment-3991983 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I agree but often you are forced to improvise and truth be told, I run all comers lists, I never plan against certain foes, I hate people who list tailor. I don't plan against any certain foe, I plan against ALL foes. From then on it is a matter of using the right tool for the right job. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305112-simplifying-the-meta/#findComment-3991998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Danse Macabre Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I agree but often you are forced to improvise and truth be told, I run all comers lists, I never plan against certain foes, I hate people who list tailor. I don't plan against any certain foe, I plan against ALL foes. From then on it is a matter of using the right tool for the right job. I agree but when you have Squads that can have 4 meltas like Dominors our troops seem like a poor match up. Also no point mixing heavy flamers and flamers due to shooting resolution order. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305112-simplifying-the-meta/#findComment-3992294 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 Fortunately, with the Holy Trinity, we have a weapon for every occasion. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305112-simplifying-the-meta/#findComment-3992409 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naminé Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I agree but often you are forced to improvise and truth be told, I run all comers lists, I never plan against certain foes, I hate people who list tailor. I don't plan against any certain foe, I plan against ALL foes. From then on it is a matter of using the right tool for the right job. I agree but when you have Squads that can have 4 meltas like Dominors our troops seem like a poor match up.Also no point mixing heavy flamers and flamers due to shooting resolution order. :P This isn't right; all types of template weapons are resolved at the same time to ensure maximum coverage. The same is true of all blast weapons in a unit. OT: My troops roll around with 4 flamer templates and 6 bolters. With preferred enemy they absolutely shred infantry units, plus they have obsec. They are a very potent tool for the most important job of all :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305112-simplifying-the-meta/#findComment-3992543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 Four flamer templates? Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Combi-flamer and... priest Combi-flamer? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305112-simplifying-the-meta/#findComment-3992611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naminé Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Bingo :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305112-simplifying-the-meta/#findComment-3992641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Danse Macabre Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 The way the rule reads is all weapons with a different profile, as the flamer types are resolved at different strength and AP they are resolved seperatly with the exception of flamers and combi flamers as they share the same profile. I am at work currently but I'll find the rule once home. This rule came into play so you could split your fire into weapon typpes to avoid a single character tanking all gun fire like a space wolf terminator taking alll your flamers and bolters and going down to the melta last, now you can resolve in the order you want. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305112-simplifying-the-meta/#findComment-3993044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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